[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[rebelmswar]

Oh please. We're not expecting to play like Barcelona, but football is a simple game. If you keep possession, you control the game. How many times do we string 4 passes together and then just go for the long ball that is cut out. Our statistics unfortunately prove that we're not very good at keeping the ball. You don't have to be a world beater - we just seem to play the longer pass too early in the moves instead of being patient.

Barcelona was used for effect.

The stats inversely prove that with an inability to string said passes together prove that playing that type of football is not an option with our batch of players. Just look at pass completion from defense to midfield. With the exception of Samba he ball normaly ends up on the opposition foot.

Banging the ball like we do against superior opposition is sadly the only way at the moment.

[Henwah]

Barcelona was used for effect.

The stats inversely prove that with an inability to string said passes together prove that playing that type of football is not an option with our batch of players. Just look at pass completion from defense to midfield. With the exception of Samba he ball normaly ends up on the opposition foot.

Banging the ball like we do against superior opposition is sadly the only way at the moment.

That's some seriously wonky logic

Our passing stats would be better if we attempted simple 10-20 yard passes more often, and tried to get the better passers into a position where they can go for the killer/long pass, with hopefully a few more options up front to aim at having been given a chance to get there, instead of letting players like 'Kryten-foot' Nelsen attempt to hit a Beckham pass when there is nobody up front to receive it (assuming it gets there)

[rebelmswar]

That's some seriously wonky logic

Our passing stats would be better if we attempted simple 10-20 yard passes more often, and tried to get the better passers into a position where they can go for the killer/long pass, with hopefully a few more options up front to aim at having been given a chance to get there, instead of letting players like 'Kryten-foot' Nelsen attempt to hit a Beckham pass when there is nobody up front to receive it (assuming it gets there)

Wonky logic is my forte.

I honestly feel that or midfield do not have the ability to play like that.

Whipping it in from the wing excluded.

[steo]

i am not a fan of sam's style of play or his childish outbursts but i reckon we are stuck with him,what other club would take him,most cubs would have an angry mob outside their stadium if he was appointed.saying that with the money he has spent he's done a great job for us just a pity he's a total t**t.

[AndyC]

Wonky logic is my forte.

I honestly feel that or midfield do not have the ability to play like that.

Whipping it in from the wing excluded.

I think its the way they are being asked to play. Sam has always been a fan of getting the ball into the danger area as quickly as possible. And who am I to argue with his success record. What he's done with Bolton and us ona shoe string has to be admired froma results perspective. But not from an enjoyment of the beautiful game perspective!

We simply don't seem to focus on keeping the ball at all costs.

[Sparky Marky]

trouble with hitting it long early is that you need the pace of Defoe/Agbonlahor etc to turn the opposition defence and get to the ball first, hold up and get it into forward running midfielders...(don't think we have any of them either)...look like a corners our best bet.

[Ricky]

I've just read the BBC report on the Allardyce Big Job subject. Their report can be found here

I'm amazed at the poor quality of the article, for example:

He then spent eight years at the helm of Bolton Wanderers before resigning surprisingly in April 2007 after guiding the Trotters to fifth spot in the Premier League and the brink of Uefa Cup qualification.

They qualified for the UEFA cup and only just missed out on the champions league.

He then had to wait 11 months before resuming his career with Blackburn, who are unbeaten in the Premier League this season.

Surely we lost to Arsenal didn't we..... and Birmingham!!

[rebelmswar]

I've just read the BBC report on the Allardyce Big Job subject. Their report can be found here

I'm amazed at the poor quality of the article, for example:

They qualified for the UEFA cup and only just missed out on the champions league.

Surely we lost to Arsenal didn't we..... and Birmingham!!

Sam wrote it.

[MarkBRFC71]

I'm pretty sure every single one of us would swap Sam for another manager who could offer equal (relative) success on the same budget. The massive problem is that there no names that immediately come to the fore.

To replace Sam at this stage would be gambling with the future of the club. If we want to appeal to investors we need to keep finishing as high as possible without spending any money.

What kind of names would we be looking at if we decided to replace Sam?

Alan Curbishley is probably the only 'safe pair of hands' option. I don't think he'd do any better at connecting on a personal level with the fans, and entertainment wouldn't go up much either.

After that where do you look? Ian Holloway would be popular and plays good football, but he'd be a massive risk. Sean O'Driscoll has performed a minor miracle in the football league, but has no PL experience.

Given our summer transfer budget we could only attract a manager desperate to get back into work, or a talented lower league manager desperate for a crack at the Premier League. We would have no chance of appointing someone with a record comparable to Allardyce's.

Agreed. In our current situation, and despite his uncontrollable ego he probably is the best option to maintain an even keel.

However, if the takeover goes through and we suddenly have oodles of cash I would hope our first signings are his pay-off cheque, and a nice 'thank you' card for keeping us up.

[Paul]

The irony is Rovers fans always mock Bolton saying how they have no real rivals, and we could't care less about them because we have our own 'proper' rivals, but the only reason those who never gave him a chance from the start dislike him merely because of his Bolton connections

I think this is a very shallow view. Personally I couldn't care less where a player or manager has been previously. If Burnley have a player who is better than the one we have in the same position then buy him. Anyone taking the view they dislike Allardyce, or whoever, because he comes from club X, Y or Z doesn't have any valid argument or criticism to put forward in my opinion.

[BuckyRover]

I think this is a very shallow view. Personally I couldn't care less where a player or manager has been previously. If Burnley have a player who is better than the one we have in the same position then buy him. Anyone taking the view they dislike Allardyce, or whoever, because he comes from club X, Y or Z doesn't have any valid argument or criticism to put forward in my opinion.

Indeed Paul.

I would swap him for Owen Coyle in a heartbeat. Explain that if it's down to local rivalry.

[S15]

Indeed Paul.

I would swap him for Owen Coyle in a heartbeat. Explain that if it's down to local rivalry.

I can't explain it, but I know that's why a lot of people instantly disliked him (no names, I'll be illiterately accused of obsession).

It's pathetic, and that's why I cringe at some of our own fans. It's painstakingly obvious to me he's the most obvious choice to keep a club in the top flight with no budget, so why on earth would people want to risk replacing him whilst we have not a dime to spend?

Even in the event of a takeover I think he should be given 18 months to prove is ability with a budget. Until then, this argument will rumble on.

I'd be ashamed if we got taken over and replaced him immediately, or even 6 months into building a new team.

[BuckyRover]

I think he has done enough to warrant his chance to use any takeover money. I don't think it will end well though.

Just my opinion

[S15]

I think he has done enough to warrant his chance to use any takeover money. I don't think it will end well though.

Just my opinion

I think it will end well statistically, but I don't think the football will ever please certain people, but I suppose that's fair enough. I think with a decent war chest Sam would have us challenging for the top 6 every season.

[BuckyRover]

I don't think it's completely unwarranted. He was sacked as Newcastle for playing for a draw against Derby (who at the time became the worst Prem team in history).

It's that kind of "percentage" play that annoys football fans. Where's the romance, the guts and the glory in that?

.

[LeChuck]

Even in the event of a takeover I think he should be given 18 months to prove is ability with a budget. Until then, this argument will rumble on.

I'd be ashamed if we got taken over and replaced him immediately, or even 6 months into building a new team.

However, if the takeover goes through and we suddenly have oodles of cash I would hope our first signings are his pay-off cheque, and a nice 'thank you' card for keeping us up.

If I was writing this during the summer I think I would have agreed with shilly.

As the situation stands though, I'm in agreement with Mark. Perhaps not as crass as sacking him, but I'd certainly be putting pressure on him to look elsewhere. To be fair I don't think he'd need much persuading, I think he'd take another job if he could find one.

He's only alienated himself from the supporters more over the last month or so, both with his interviews (the 'bought the title' one sticks in my mind) and style of play. If someone like Syed bought the club and wanted to generate excitement in the fans (something Syed obviously wants given the early media reports), I don't think it would be possible to get everyone 'on board' with Allardyce in charge because of his unpopularity.

[BuckyRover]

I didn't expect you to say that LeChuck.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Even in the event of a takeover I think he should be given 18 months to prove is ability with a budget. Until then, this argument will rumble on.

I'd be ashamed if we got taken over and replaced him immediately, or even 6 months into building a new team.

Think Allardyce has shot himself in the foot some what. Has he not stated that he is going to retire in a couple of years time? If we have money to invest then surely we want a manager who would commit longer than 2 seasons. Lets face it there aren't many managers that follow Allardyce's football phillosphy ergo any manager replacing Allardyce in a couple of years would want to rebuild the side. It could be a costly decision.

Sam is the right person now and perhaps if he was 10 years younger he would be the right person post takeover (providing there is serious cash available. Syed talks of a five year first phase - for this to be successful surely you would aim to keep the same manager in place for that period?

. .

[thenodrog]

So we think 'average' players are better off trying to hit 60 yard passes accurately than trying to hit 10/20 yard ones?

Yes most definitely. I assume that you don't actually play football.

It's not the passing it's the receiver of the pass finding enough space to control it and pass it on naturally and in one movement.

A few examples of players which might illustrate the point for you. Compare Tugay and Keith Andrews, Benny Mac and Jason Roberts. Two who can play intricate triangles have gone and two who can't are still here so why the hell do we want to put square pegs into round holes? First touch is everything in short passing football and two of the above usually make their second touch a tackle. No one can make a silk purse out of a pigs ear.

[broadsword]

Hasn't Sam said before that the average length of a prem. manager's stay is 2 years? if so, that would mean he'll be gone by Christmas.

[Henwah]

Your assumption are in line with most of your comments then...

I play football 3 times a week and have done for about 15 years, and assume that if I can control a 20 yard pass, then footballers on thousands a week can be expected to do this as a fairly basic pre-requisite, besides, if a pass is accurate with the correct spin it's not difficult to control, or maybe you are not a good enough player to accept that is possible

[thenodrog]

Your assumption are in line with most of your comments then...

I play football 3 times a week and have done for about 15 years, and assume that if I can control a 20 yard pass, then footballers on thousands a week can be expected to do this as a fairly basic pre-requisite, besides, if a pass is accurate with the correct spin it's not difficult to control, or maybe you are not a good enough player to accept that is possible

You are obviously a very skilfull and very experienced player Henwah. Unfortunately I'm not talking about the JJB and park football opposition here.

btw So anyway how come you are'nt being paid millions per annum to play in the Prem then?

[jim mk2]

As the situation stands though, I'm in agreement with Mark. Perhaps not as crass as sacking him, but I'd certainly be putting pressure on him to look elsewhere.

Begs the question who would you replace Allardyce with who is available, who is cheap, and who could keep Rovers in the Premier League ? If Allardyce is indeed sending a message to other clubs I hope the board have a good replacement lined up because their last experiment with the cheap option was a disaster. Be careful what you wish for with regards to Allardyce leaving - as has been stated ad nauseum or all his faults he will always keep Rovers in the top flight.

[thenodrog]

Begs the question who would you replace Allardyce with who is available, who is cheap, and who could keep Rovers in the Premier League ? If Allardyce is indeed sending a message to other clubs I hope the board have a good replacement lined up because their last experiment with the cheap option was a disaster. Be careful what you wish for with regards to Allardyce leaving - as has been stated ad nauseum or all his faults he will always keep Rovers in the top flight.

Amazing. How come you can manage to talk sense on this board and complete shyte on the other?

[S15]

Begs the question who would you replace Allardyce with who is available, who is cheap, and who could keep Rovers in the Premier League ? If Allardyce is indeed sending a message to other clubs I hope the board have a good replacement lined up because their last experiment with the cheap option was a disaster. Be careful what you wish for with regards to Allardyce leaving - as has been stated ad nauseum or all his faults he will always keep Rovers in the top flight.

Whilst I agree with what you're saying I believe LeChuck was talking in the event of a takeover.