[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[S15]

  On 23/09/2010 at 20:56, bluerovers said:

Well as I said, I don't answer ad-hominems (lowest form on debate and your forte it seems) and it looks like you don't answer actual points made (like the fact 'even a blind man on galloping horse (the relevance of the horse bit is???)' could never comprehend the word "catastropic" being used to describe a change in management as you did. So wanna explain what disaster could happen to us if we did?

Well you've answered them twice now, so...

And what could happen?

WE

COULD

GET

RELEGATED.

Never thought I'd have spell out such a simple post.

[rebelmswar]

  On 23/09/2010 at 20:56, bluerovers said:

Well as I said, I don't answer ad-hominems (lowest form on debate and your forte it seems) and it looks like you don't answer actual points made (like the fact 'even a blind man on galloping horse (the relevance of the horse bit is???)' could never comprehend the word "catastropic" being used to describe a change in management as you did. So wanna explain what disaster could happen to us if we did?

Or you could just try another Will Self styled tirade against my intelligence instead....

Don't bully him into a verbal slugging match dude its not worth it, knowing him a little and thinking in his style of comebacks I could easily make four or five in that last post.

You two disagree, you should leave it.

[gumboots]

  On 23/09/2010 at 21:02, shillito15 said:

Well you've answered them twice now, so...

And what could happen?

WE

COULD

GET

RELEGATED.

Never thought I'd have spell out such a simple post.

Can I just point out that, unlikely though you may consider it, we could get relegated if allardyce stays too. There are no definites in our current situation.

[S15]

  On 23/09/2010 at 21:14, gumboots said:

Can I just point out that, unlikely though you may consider it, we could get relegated if allardyce stays too. There are no definites in our current situation.

Of course.

However, having a manager who has always worked on a very slim budget and has never been relegated from this league (or any league for that matter) certainly lowers the odds.

[gumboots]

  On 23/09/2010 at 21:16, shillito15 said:

Of course.

However, having a manager who has always worked on a very slim budget and has never been relegated from this league (or any league for that matter) certainly lowers the odds.

It does but the old cliché "There's a first time for everything" lurks in my thoughts

[John]

“I don’t want to stand still I don’t just want to be associated with being the type of manager that works with a team with less money than everyone else. I’d like to have an opportunity and a desire to manage at a higher level if that opportunity comes. If not, I’m at a great club, I’m enjoying the job I do here I get well supported by the football club and the owners. Perhaps not financially, they can’t give me what you want but it’s a great club to be at.”

[BPF]

  On 23/09/2010 at 21:21, John said:

“I don’t want to stand still I don’t just want to be associated with being the type of manager that works with a team with less money than everyone else. I’d like to have an opportunity and a desire to manage at a higher level if that opportunity comes. If not, I’m at a great club, I’m enjoying the job I do here I get well supported by the football club and the owners. Perhaps not financially, they can’t give me what you want but it’s a great club to be at.”

Too late.

You are also a well known hoof merchant.

[rebelmswar]

The man can do no right no matter what he says. He should run out to the centre circle at Blackpool and put a sword through his guts.

Go out with some honor etc.

[BPF]

  On 23/09/2010 at 21:43, rebelmswar said:

The man can do no right no matter what he says. He should run out to the centre circle at Blackpool and put a sword through his guts.

Go out with some honor etc.

Providing he does it at half time.....Good idea.

[Doaksie]

  On 23/09/2010 at 21:43, rebelmswar said:

The man can do no right no matter what he says. He should run out to the centre circle at Blackpool and put a sword through his guts.

Go out with some honor etc.

Like an extreme version of the Souness flag plant. I like it. There'd be gravy all over the pitch though.

[SamTheShrew]

  On 23/09/2010 at 21:43, rebelmswar said:

The man can do no right no matter what he says. He should run out to the centre circle at Blackpool and put a sword through his guts.

Go out with some honor etc.

Perhaps he should just say absolute SWEET FA and let the action on the pitch (or lack of it) do the talking.

Now there's a thought.

[rebelmswar]

  On 23/09/2010 at 22:01, SamTheLeedsRover said:

Perhaps he should just say absolute SWEET FA and let the action on the pitch (or lack of it) do the talking.

Now there's a thought.

Do you think that would work?

Probably be slated for not sticking up for the team, players, Blackburn. Told that he doesn't care about his job and has lost interest.

[47er]

  On 23/09/2010 at 14:45, gumboots said:

Sorry but I already have a day job. And this is just typical of the head in the sand attitude of some fans on here. I'm not moaning. I'm telling you what I'm hearing from season ticket holders I know. I'm asking questions. To be honest, with the games we have coming up we could easily be in big trouble soon. It's no use looking back at last season. Other teams have strengthened. It's no good saying that last night was the Carling cup and therefore matters less. It's just not true. Every game matters. Every loss chips away at confidence. It's no good putting in a half decent performance like at City and then throwing away leads against Fulham at home. And it can't all be down to the players. The manager is paid a large amount to do his job and get it right at least as often as he gets it wrong. At the moment I don't see us scoring enough goals to win a game given that we generally concede at least one. I see strikers isolated, midfielders being bypassed by a defence that puts the ball as far as possible down the field at every opportunity. I see players like Jones out of position in midfield. I'm not hysterical. I don't want the manager's head on a platter. I just want to see a performance where I can take real pleasure in the result and some in the performance. Is that actually too much to ask because if it is, I wish someone had told me sooner.

You said it yourself----------"other teams have strengthened".Can't blame the manager for that. We won't strengthen till/if a takeover goes through.

I agree-we could be in trouble soon but who's going to do better with this lot than the manager we've got?

[47er]

  On 23/09/2010 at 17:14, MarkBRFC71 said:

I wouldn't be so sure. If the takeover goes through and we're suddenly flush with cash, and performances and results haven't improved much I think he'll be gone by the end of this year.

I wouldn't argue with that hypothetical scenario within reason. If any manager gets a lot of new money to spend and can't improve performances then he has to go. The timing is a matter for the Board. Does he get weeks, a month, a full season? We don't want to end up like Newcastle.

[Steve Moss]

  On 23/09/2010 at 21:21, John said:

“I don’t want to stand still I don’t just want to be associated with being the type of manager that works with a team with less money than everyone else. I’d like to have an opportunity and a desire to manage at a higher level if that opportunity comes. If not, I’m at a great club, I’m enjoying the job I do here I get well supported by the football club and the owners. Perhaps not financially, they can’t give me what you want but it’s a great club to be at.”

There is absolutely nothing wrong with what Sam has said. He's ambitious. That's good. To realize his dream he'll have to produce results at the Rovers now as his success at Bolton is history. And the fact that he's motivated to move up the ladder should be reassuring to all Rovers fans.

[SamTheShrew]

  On 23/09/2010 at 22:09, rebelmswar said:

Do you think that would work?

Probably be slated for not sticking up for the team, players, Blackburn. Told that he doesn't care about his job and has lost interest.

He seems to criticise them more than stick up for them.

Why do we always here so much from him? He loves the media to try and create this self-styled image and yet its just a bore. Just get on with it like most premier league managers.

I don't really care where he would like to be, I care that he is focused NOW

[gumboots]

  On 23/09/2010 at 23:39, 47er said:

You said it yourself----------"other teams have strengthened".Can't blame the manager for that. We won't strengthen till/if a takeover goes through.

I agree-we could be in trouble soon but who's going to do better with this lot than the manager we've got?

I don't know hence why I've said several times that I'm not calling for him to be sacked. However, what he is currently doing is, for whatever reason, not working as it is supposed to, fans are frustrated, some are staying away because already they feel they know what the match will be like, others are beginning to boo or show their displeasure in other ways. The current manager has to find some way of changing that - one convincing win, even if it's only a good 1-0 would go a long way to doing that - or discontent will spread. It doesn't take much to win over the crowd again. Heaping blame on your players though, and not appearing to acknowledge that you have any blame to shoulder dos not seem to be the best way to go about it. Sending out a team that plays ok in the first half but then surrenders abjectly in the second is not a good idea either. Some of that may be down to players but some of it has to be down to him.

[Smithy]

People shouldn't be hangaring for Samuel's head he has shown he can turn it around. Reserve judgement until 10-12 games in then we'll have a much clearer picture.

I'd be carefully watching the Everton situation however as if the supposed pressure on Moyes keeps building he, should the situation arise he would be ideal. But we'd need a takeover to have gone through to stand any chance.

[Guest bluerovers]

  On 23/09/2010 at 21:02, shillito15 said:

Well you've answered them twice now, so...

And what could happen?

WE

COULD

GET

RELEGATED.

Never thought I'd have spell out such a simple post.

And you'd regard relegation as as a catastrophe? It would be a sad day, it wouldn't be great but it wouldn't be "catastrophic". It wasn't the end of Blackburn Rovers when we went down in 99, we survived and cam back stronger for it...

Not that I believe the premise that a Sam-less Rovers would be highly likely to go down anyway (with a current squad)....

[Al]

  On 24/09/2010 at 09:05, bluerovers said:

And you'd regard relegation as as a catastrophe? It would be a sad day, it wouldn't be great but it wouldn't be "catastrophic". It wasn't the end of Blackburn Rovers when we went down in 99, we survived and cam back stronger for it...

Not that I believe the premise that a Sam-less Rovers would be highly likely to go down anyway (with a current squad)....

Yes it would be catostrophic. The worst possible end to a season is relegation.

[LeChuck]

  On 24/09/2010 at 09:05, bluerovers said:

And you'd regard relegation as as a catastrophe? It would be a sad day, it wouldn't be great but it wouldn't be "catastrophic". It wasn't the end of Blackburn Rovers when we went down in 99, we survived and cam back stronger for it...

Because at that time our owners were still prepared to put the cash in to make us successful.

Relegation now would be a catastrophe. Look how other fairly big clubs have struggled since they went down.

[S15]

  On 24/09/2010 at 09:05, bluerovers said:

And you'd regard relegation as as a catastrophe? It would be a sad day, it wouldn't be great but it wouldn't be "catastrophic". It wasn't the end of Blackburn Rovers when we went down in 99, we survived and cam back stronger for it...

Not that I believe the premise that a Sam-less Rovers would be highly likely to go down anyway (with a current squad)....

It would be absolutely indescribably catastrophic.

Comparing modern circumstance to what happened in 99, when Jack Walker was still alive is perhaps the tip of your iceberg in this discussion.

If we went down we'd keep falling.

[den]

  On 24/09/2010 at 09:05, bluerovers said:

And you'd regard relegation as as a catastrophe? It would be a sad day, it wouldn't be great but it wouldn't be "catastrophic". It wasn't the end of Blackburn Rovers when we went down in 99, we survived and cam back stronger for it...

Ask John Williams what relegation would mean. He's already spelt that out loud and clear.

[Guest bluerovers]

Do you guys actually know what the word catastrophe means? The situation is New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina was a catastrophe, 9/11 was a catastrophe for America but a small town football club in the North West being relegated to the Championship isn't. Newcastle United survived didn't they?

But I reiterate, any competent manager with our current squad should not get us relegated. I totally disagree that Sam Allardyce is some miracle worker that keeps squads that should be relegation candidates out of the mire. The reason we nearly got relegated under Ince was he was a cr*p manager, not because of the style of football he tried to play and Sam 'saved' us by being a competent manager who gotthe results out of the squad that they SHOULD be getting.

There are other competent managers out there, we can't keep using memories of Ince's reign of terror as safety net for Sam's employment. Was Mark Hughes not a success story before Ince?

And I'm not saying we should sack Allardyce right now, I just don't agree with the premise that Sam can't be sacked this season (especially if the takeover goes through, Sam keeps gobbing off about his "ambitions" and our results keep going the way they are etc etc).

[den]

  On 24/09/2010 at 09:51, bluerovers said:

Do you guys actually know what the word catastrophe means? The situation is New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina was a catastrophe, 9/11 was a catastrophe for America but a small town football club in the North West being relegated to the Championship isn't. Newcastle United survived didn't they?

But I reiterate, any competent manager with our current squad should not get us relegated. I totally disagree that Sam Allardyce is some miracle worker that keeps squads that should be relegation candidates out of the mire. The reason we nearly got relegated under Ince was he was a cr*p manager, not because of the style of football he tried to play and Sam 'saved' us by being a competent manager who got out of the results out of the squad what they SHOULD be getting.

There are other competent managers out there, we can't keep using memories of Ince's reign of terror as safety net for Sam's employment. Was Mark Hughes not a success story before Ince?

And I'm not saying we should sack now, I just don't agree with the premise that Sam can't be sacked.

In footballing terms, and this is what you were talking about, relegation for Rovers would be a catatastrophe. Well yes, Newcastle United survived, but BRFC isn't Newcastle is it? We wouldn't be getting massive gates in the Championship, would we? Williams has already said it would mean huge redundancies within the club. The players on better contracts would no doubt go, meaning a realistic challenge for immediate promotion would not be on the agenda. Hence Gate income would almost disappear completely. Sponsorship and advertising would also take a big drop. In fact, in my opinion, turnover would collapse big time.

So, to say that "the last time we were relegated we came back stronger", shows complete misunderstanding of what the real situation would be.