[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[47er]

Just to back up what Den is saying, there would be hardly any TV money and we'd be relying on parachute payments for a limited period. To try to make up the shortfall fans would be asked to pay much more for tickets, maybe up to twice as much for lower

league football. What do you think our average attendance might be? Look at Preston---scary or what? You might not think that a catastrophe but I'm sure plenty of Rovers fans do.

[S15]

Do you guys actually know what the word catastrophe means? The situation is New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina was a catastrophe, 9/11 was a catastrophe for America but a small town football club in the North West being relegated to the Championship isn't. Newcastle United survived didn't they?

But I reiterate, any competent manager with our current squad should not get us relegated. I totally disagree that Sam Allardyce is some miracle worker that keeps squads that should be relegation candidates out of the mire. The reason we nearly got relegated under Ince was he was a cr*p manager, not because of the style of football he tried to play and Sam 'saved' us by being a competent manager who gotthe results out of the squad that they SHOULD be getting.

There are other competent managers out there, we can't keep using memories of Ince's reign of terror as safety net for Sam's employment. Was Mark Hughes not a success story before Ince?

And I'm not saying we should sack Allardyce right now, I just don't agree with the premise that Sam can't be sacked this season (especially if the takeover goes through, Sam keeps gobbing off about his "ambitions" and our results keep going the way they are etc etc).

Jesus H.

The very first thing I said to you was 'you clearly have no perspective on context.'

Don't start the lecture of explaining the term 'catastrophe,' as it really does show you to be either very pedantic, or as I have previously stated you may be incapable of understanding context.

[Guest bluerovers]

In footballing terms, and this is what you were talking about, relegation for Rovers would be a catatastrophe.

Going in administration or being dissolved would be a catastrophe, being relegated would be a major disappointment.

Well yes, Newcastle United survived, but BRFC isn't Newcastle is it?

No you're right, we're not £110m in debt...

We wouldn't be getting massive gates in the Championship, would we?

We're not getting massive gates in the Premiership right now either. But gates being affected by relegation isn't something unique to Rovers is it?

Williams has already said it would mean huge redundancies within the club.

Where did he say that?

The players on better contracts would no doubt go, meaning a realistic challenge for immediate promotion would not be on the agenda.

Have you heard of parachute payments? This year the football league negotiated a deal worth £48m for a relegated club paid over 4 years to cover the wages of these better paid players? And even if they did leave it doesn't mean immediate promotion shouldn't be on the agenda.

Hence Gate income would almost disappear completely. Sponsorship and advertising would also take a big drop. In fact, in my opinion, turnover would collapse big time.

Well I disagree with how you've got to this point, but even so these issues are no different for any other club that has been relegated in the past.

So, to say that "the last time we were relegated we came back stronger", shows complete misunderstanding of what the real situation would be.

OK maybe that sentence was a bit "romantic", however I don't agree at all with your doomsday view on relegation and again I go back to the actual point, I don't believe our current squad should be relegation candidates and any competent manager would not get us relegated, there's nout special about Sam

[John]

JW said last season we could go bust if relegated.

[RibbleValleyRover]

JW said last season we could go bust if relegated.

Not surprised, we are so dependent financially on being in the premier league.

[Ricky]

Keep digging bluerovers.

The parachute payments would be swallowed up in no time at all. The club would be in serious problems if relegated. In football terms it would be a catastrophe. Simple as that.

[den]

Going in administration or being dissolved would be a catastrophe, being relegated would be a major disappointment.

No you're right, we're not £110m in debt...

We're not getting massive gates in the Premiership right now either. But gates being affected by relegation isn't something unique to Rovers is it?

Where did he say that?

Have you heard of parachute payments? This year the football league negotiated a deal worth £48m for a relegated club paid over 4 years to cover the wages of these better paid players? And even if they did leave it doesn't mean immediate promotion shouldn't be on the agenda.

Well I disagree with how you've got to this point, but even so these issues are no different for any other club that has been relegated in the past.

OK maybe that sentence was a bit "romantic", however I don't agree at all with your doomsday view on relegation and again I go back to the actual point, I don't believe our current squad should be relegation candidates and any competent manager would not get us relegated, there's nout special about Sam

Comparing our financial position if relegated to Newcastle's financial position is quite ridiculous. For starters, we wont have 40,000 fans waiting to pay top prices for admission will we. We wont be attracting the same TV income, advertising money or sponsorship, will we? You keep believing that we'll be fine then Bluerovers, no point in anyone on here trying to change your mind.

You're impossible.

[bellamy11]

Ince's reign of terror as safety net for Sam's employment.

Stalin and Saddam Hussein oversaw reigns of terror. Paul Ince mismanaged a small town football club in the North West.

Was Mark Hughes not a success story before Ince?

The discovery of fire and invention of the wheel were success stories. Mark Hughes did a good job of managing a small town football club in the North West.

Do you see what is going on here? As several people have pointed out, you have spectacularly missed the point contextually, or more likely you were trying to cleverly get yourself out of a hole but just dug yourself further into it.

[rebelmswar]

It’s time to cash in your chips and call it a loss Blue. I think it is even past the point when you can say you are being pedantic for effect.

You have to know when to fold ‘em, know when to hold ‘em, know when to walk away, and know when to run.

[ROVERS]

i have more concerns about a prolong negative effect on the team as a whole........

And it scares me even more when money is actually made available for SAM, cause just like a blank piece of paper, SAM had not proven or churn out any results/achievement with huge transfer kitty, did he?

All i wish for is FOOTBALL to be played, honestly, if a very defensive minded strategy is being deployed against the big four, i could still swallow that. But why the hell are our play the same with teams that we could actually compete with???????

i once mentioned Sam game plan is about destroying other manager's game plan without actually having a plan in mind- to elaborate further, our team strategy is based on predicting what other team may/would want to do = being led by the nose??? / we have got zero or close to zero characteristic in our play - unless of course you consider hoof balls and set pieces as a type of charactistic. (a very very sad characteristic for sure)

the question we should really ponder about is - "SAM's capability as a FOOTBALL manager?"

[Hughesy]

Sam has never been given money & time so we dont know.

The question isnt about types - its about being a manager of premier league club - something he HAS been VERY successful at, even with limited resources. His record at Bolton & here speaks for itself.

[47er]

i have more concerns about a prolong negative effect on the team as a whole........

And it scares me even more when money is actually made available for SAM, cause just like a blank piece of paper, SAM had not proven or churn out any results/achievement with huge transfer kitty, did he?

All i wish for is FOOTBALL to be played, honestly, if a very defensive minded strategy is being deployed against the big four, i could still swallow that. But why the hell are our play the same with teams that we could actually compete with???????

i once mentioned Sam game plan is about destroying other manager's game plan without actually having a plan in mind- to elaborate further, our team strategy is based on predicting what other team may/would want to do = being led by the nose??? / we have got zero or close to zero characteristic in our play - unless of course you consider hoof balls and set pieces as a type of charactistic. (a very very sad characteristic for sure)

the question we should really ponder about is - "SAM's capability as a FOOTBALL manager?"

There has been nearly 500 pages of pondering this. Its actually what the thread is about!

[K-Hod]

It's interesting- people only complain about the style of football when it's ineffective...... fickleness? I've never been a fan of the 'hoofball' approach. To quote Brian Clough 'If god wanted football played in the air, he would have put grass in the sky'. Sure I'm not the only one to notice the considerable improvement in the style of our play when David Dunn isn't in the team, compared to when he is!

[Hughesy]

To quote Brian Clough 'If god wanted football played in the air, he would have put grass in the sky'.

Would he have made the ball stick to the floor too then?

[rebelmswar]

i have more concerns about a prolong negative effect on the team as a whole........

And it scares me even more when money is actually made available for SAM, cause just like a blank piece of paper, SAM had not proven or churn out any results/achievement with huge transfer kitty, did he?

All i wish for is FOOTBALL to be played, honestly, if a very defensive minded strategy is being deployed against the big four, i could still swallow that. But why the hell are our play the same with teams that we could actually compete with???????

i once mentioned Sam game plan is about destroying other manager's game plan without actually having a plan in mind- to elaborate further, our team strategy is based on predicting what other team may/would want to do = being led by the nose??? / we have got zero or close to zero characteristic in our play - unless of course you consider hoof balls and set pieces as a type of charactistic. (a very very sad characteristic for sure)

the question we should really ponder about is - "SAM's capability as a FOOTBALL manager?"

Prolonged negative effects on the team as a whole? Have you not seen the spirit that this team has shown when they have been playing against teams that have one player that costs the same as our entire team? For the love of God, Berbatov by himself cost more than what the asking price for our entire club.

Scares you when money is available? Where does that come from? Newspapers? His spending at Newcastle? The players he has brought here? What? I think the players he has brought here with the pittance that he has been given is fantastic. No achievement, no result. Delusional, blinded by dislike. What happened to the mighty Newcastle when he left? Hmmm. Even Alan Messiah Shearer couldnt save them when Sam The Piece of Filth Allardyce had them in some manner of safety.

Your bilious, spurious, and downright deranged strategy-nonstrategic hyperbole is as flawed as your logic in regards to what a manager is and should be.

Sam is not a football manager? Well who is? Who would replace him with the funds available that he has had? Some up and comer ala Ince or someone foreign and not up to speed with the English game? I cannot see how this would help matters at all.

We seem to be a bunch of spoiled children with champaign tastes and puddle water wallets. The dog is wagging quicker than Sams tongue and people are swallowing the whole rod, never mind the hook, line and sinker. Please see that we are an engine running down, we have been stripped, sold off, and had replacements barely suited for use. We have been in a steady decline of selling to survive, regardless of the copious amounts of T.V. money and this trend will continue without new investment. I see no manager more suited for this role. Hughes saw this writing on the wall and buggered off fast as he could.

If we get rid of this manager now, before a takeover or maybe after, we will be destined to join all of the other epileptic knee jerk clubs in the basement of this league and playing in the lower one next season.

[Hughesy]

Do you guys actually know what the word catastrophe means? The situation is New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina was a catastrophe, 9/11 was a catastrophe for America but a small town football club in the North West being relegated to the Championship isn't. Newcastle United survived didn't they?

But I reiterate, any competent manager with our current squad should not get us relegated. There are other competent managers out there.

Catastrophe for who?! It all depends on your situation - as my situation is a big fan of Blackburn Rovers then for me this is a bigger catastrophe than a huricane in some place il never visit.

Also no point comparing Newcastle to us - they could afford to keep all their high earners, we wont be able to.

Any examples of these managers you talk about? With a track record to back it up?

[Ricky]

Probably better to compare the effect of relegation on us based to clubs of a similar size (fanbase etc). Southampton, Charlton, Norwich.... none of them did very well out of relegation did they.

[rebelmswar]

Probably better to compare the effect of relegation on us based to clubs of a similar size (fanbase etc). Southampton, Charlton, Norwich.... none of them did very well out of relegation did they.

No Ricky, no no no no ........ NO

Those teams didn't have a brigade of competent mangers waiting in the wings with shed loads of phantom cash.

pfffffff thought you would know better.... Mods...

[Ricky]

Iguess I should just stick to the poker reb... did I mention I won the BRFCS poker competition.... I'm sure I didnt mention it

[Exiled in Toronto]

Probably better to compare the effect of relegation on us based to clubs of a similar size (fanbase etc). Southampton, Charlton, Norwich.... none of them did very well out of relegation did they.

West Brom have been relegated 4 times is it in the last decade, and they're back yet again. Relegation is a risky business, but tends only to be a catastrophe when coupled with financial mismanagement. (P.S Norwich are currently 4th in the Championship drawing as big a crowd against Barnsley as we did against Fulham)

Back to the point though. I too don't agree that Sam Allardyce is the only manager in the entire world who can prevent the 12th best paid squad in the league from being relegated. He was the safest pair of hands of the unemployed managers who were available at the time of Ince's sacking. But he would only get sacked if we had new owners willing to pay him off and hence willing to pay to attract a better manager than from the ranks of the unemployed.

[rebelmswar]

Iguess I should just stick to the poker reb... did I mention I won the BRFCS poker competition.... I'm sure I didnt mention it

No I hadn't heard that, should pit it as your sig or something. Congrats.

Perhaps you should join my confederation to buy Rovers.

[den]

West Brom have been relegated 4 times is it in the last decade, and they're back yet again. Relegation is a risky business, but tends only to be a catastrophe when coupled with financial mismanagement. (P.S Norwich are currently 4th in the Championship drawing as big a crowd against Barnsley as we did against Fulham)

That is a different scenario. West Brom have been promoted with a side not good enough to stay in the PL. They didn't strengthen so accepted relegation and were able to keep their Championship standard squad together for another attempt the following season.

Rovers, if they were to go down, would lose pretty well all of their better players. Take those players out of a side that was relegated and what's left?

[Blue blood]

This well may be a vain hope but if we were to get relegated, would that not force the board to invest some money in the club simply to keep it as a viable/attractive option to potential buyers? After all a club that is utterly stuffed financially in the championship with no prospects is hardly an appealing prospect to invest in.

[waggy]

the arguement about the way lard@rse plays football will rage until he dissapears into oblivion,what i want to know is why we can play bloody decent football one week and the next game revert to the long ball/hoof ball/percentage football.

[rebelmswar]

the arguement about the way lard@rse plays football will rage until he dissapears into oblivion,what i want to know is why we can play bloody decent football one week and the next game revert to the long ball/hoof ball/percentage football.

Purely to pish you off.