[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[Guest bluerovers]

Just curious, but where has anyone actually called for his head?

No one has, a few people have shown legitimate concern over some on Sam's recent comments and style of play and others have taken offense to this, stuck up the strawman that those people are 'calling for his head' and proceeded to tell us about how Sam was Rover's saviour and if he were ever to leave how Rovers would catastrophically implode the day he left.

[S15]

No one has, a few people have shown legitimate concern over some on Sam's recent comments and style of play and others have taken offense to this, stuck up the strawman that those people are 'calling for his head' and proceeded to tell us about how Sam was Rover's saviour and if he were ever to leave how Rovers would catastrophically implode the day he left.

Well we imploded the day Hughes left.

[Guest bluerovers]

Well we imploded the day Hughes left.

But we didn't though did we? We made the stupid mistake of giving Ince the gig before realising our error and appointing a competent manager like we should have done in the first place.

Notice I said 'competent manager' and not specifically 'Sam Allardyce' as yes I believe that any decent Prem experience manager would have got us out of th relegation zone that Ince left us in. Yes we should be grateful for Sam for it, but was it someone that only he could have done, not IMO.

[MarkBRFC71]

Well we imploded the day Hughes left.

More like the day Ince was appointed.

Sam is probably the best manager for the club now, but if he left I don't think it would be the absolutely certain disaster resulting in inevitable relegation some make out.

[S15]

But we didn't though did we? We made the stupid mistake of giving Ince the gig before realising our error and appointing a competent manager like we should have done in the first place.

Notice I said 'competent manager' and not specifically 'Sam Allardyce' as yes I believe that any decent Prem experience manager would have got us out of th relegation zone that Ince left us in. Yes we should be grateful for Sam for it, but was it someone that only he could have done, not IMO.

5 points adrift at Xmas.

Not many who could have.

[47er]

But we didn't though did we? We made the stupid mistake of giving Ince the gig before realising our error and appointing a competent manager like we should have done in the first place.

Notice I said 'competent manager' and not specifically 'Sam Allardyce' as yes I believe that any decent Prem experience manager would have got us out of th relegation zone that Ince left us in. Yes we should be grateful for Sam for it, but was it someone that only he could have done, not IMO.

And how many decent Prem experienced managers were available? In any case, its nonsense to think it was a straightforward job. When Sam took over near Christmas we were well adrift in the bottom 3 and sinking fast-------leaking goals like a sieve, unfit disorganised and demoralised. Losing had become a habit. To shake all that up and turn it around as he did was absolutely miraculous. I was convinced we were going down and I'll be grateful to Sam forever no matter what happens in the future.

Undermining the manager's achievements has become the norm for those who never wanted him in the first place AND PLAYED SOME ROLE IN ENSURING HE WAS OVERLOOKED FIRST TIME AROUND AND LANDING US WITH INCE.

More like the day Ince was appointed.

Sam is probably the best manager for the club now, but if he left I don't think it would be the absolutely certain disaster resulting in inevitable relegation some make out.

You may or may not be right-------but what sort of idiot would take the risk?

[Yorick]

Notice I said 'competent manager' and not specifically 'Sam Allardyce' as yes I believe that any decent Prem experience manager would have got us out of th relegation zone that Ince left us in. Yes we should be grateful for Sam for it, but was it someone that only he could have done, not IMO.

Thats rather vague and a rather definite "not". So could you be more specific and name names of managers of decent repute with significant Premier league and Championship experience (we were in a relegation spot remember) who fitted our situation at that time, who would have come to Blackburn at the bottom of the table and skint, who didnt require buying out of their contract elsewhere and lastly had a better cv than our current manager.

When you've done that fast forward to today and try again. The only names I can readily think of are the likes of Megson, Robson, Southgate, Strachan etc who have a big fat F for failure alongside. I'm putting you on the spot. You can be John Williams for the day. Over to you bluerovers.

[LeChuck]

The only names I can readily think of are the likes of Megson, Robson, Southgate, Strachan etc who have a big fat F for failure alongside. I'm putting you on the spot. You can be John Williams for the day. Over to you bluerovers.

This is the key thing that none of the people who constantly bash Allardyce can answer. You could probably throw Curbishley into that list you made, but he's hardly inspiring either.

Perhaps if we get taken over we can attract better names, but until then who could we realistically get? Ian Holloway is about as exciting as it would get (good football and a likeable man), but that would be a massive risk.

[S15]

This is the key thing that none of the people who constantly bash Allardyce can answer. You could probably throw Curbishley into that list you made, but he's hardly inspiring either.

Perhaps if we get taken over we can attract better names, but until then who could we realistically get? Ian Holloway is about as exciting as it would get (good football and a likeable man), but that would be a massive risk.

I like Holloway but his admission of 'draws won't keep us in this league' worries me.

38 draws = safety.

[Guest bluerovers]

And how many decent Prem experienced managers were available?

That wasn't my point and you know it. But if you want names, Alan Curbishly and Avram grant.

I want to stress that I am NOT saying we should have hired them instead of Sam, only that I believe either of them would have 'saved' us the same way in which Sam did. My point is that Sam does not have a unique skill that should protect him from the sack in the future.

In any case, its nonsense to think it was a straightforward job. When Sam took over near Christmas we were well adrift in the bottom 3 and sinking fast-------leaking goals like a sieve, unfit disorganised and demoralised. Losing had become a habit. To shake all that up and turn it around as he did was absolutely miraculous. I was convinced we were going down and I'll be grateful to Sam forever no matter what happens in the future.

I'm sorry but it was pretty straight forward, sack Ince and replace him with anyone with a half decent name in footy and instantly rejuvenate the squad's confidence and that was what happened. It was the sacking of Ince that got morale up in the squad and not the hiring of Allardyce.

We went from 12 games without a win and mostly draws to 8 games without a loss (although mostly draws) which to me smacks of a change in management being the effect rather than the actual manager personally bringing in amazing tactics we'd never seen before. I think you would have seen the same efefct had any decent manager been brought in.

Undermining the manager's achievements has become the norm for those who never wanted him in the first place AND PLAYED SOME ROLE IN ENSURING HE WAS OVERLOOKED FIRST TIME AROUND AND LANDING US WITH INCE.

And undermining Rovers as a club has become the norm for Sam in interviews recently.

[S15]

I want to stress that I am NOT saying we should have hired them instead of Sam, only that I believe either of them would have 'saved' us the same way in which Sam did. My point is that Sam does not have a unique skill that should protect him from the sack in the future.

Yes he does, he has the skill to keep clubs in the league and finish far higher than they should without spending money.

Without any takeover that is priceless, and if we do get taken over he's eared the right to prove his worth at taking us to the next level.

[Guest bluerovers]

Yes he does, he has the skill to keep clubs in the league and finish far higher than they should without spending money.

So did Hughes so my point stands, Sam has no UNIQUE skill. You may view it as rare, but we know it's demonstrably true that other people can manage us without getting us relegated. Souness didn't flirt with relelation either til the end of his tenure.

Without any takeover that is priceless, and if we do get taken over he's eared the right to prove his worth at taking us to the next level.

I'm certainly not in the market to be saying we should sack Sam (or anybody that we had) at this moment in time, we are in way too precarious a position and I would agree with you that anyone who says he should be dropped now is moronic.

However IF for example, at the end of the season we had a fairly rich chairman who was willing to put say £10-20m in for transfers a season, I would much rather see someone else spending it. Especially if Sam keeps makes comments about his "ambitions", how we bought the title and how great Sir Alex is and our football doesn't improve. I think this week's result at Blackpool has papered over few crack in that regard.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

So did Hughes so my point stands, Sam has no UNIQUE skill. You may view it as rare, but we know it's demonstrably true that other people can manage us without getting us relegated. Souness didn't flirt with relelation either til the end of his tenure.

I'm certainly not in the market to be saying we should sack Sam (or anybody that we had) at this moment in time, we are in way too precarious a position and I would agree with you that anyone who says he should be dropped now is moronic.

However IF for example, at the end of the season we had a fairly rich chairman who was willing to put say £10-20m in for transfers a season, I would much rather see someone else spending it. Especially if Sam keeps makes comments about his "ambitions", how we bought the title and how great Sir Alex is and our football doesn't improve. I think this week's result at Blackpool has papered over few crack in that regard.

It would seem that you are going to argue and argue on this one. Facts are that Allardyce kept us up with an embarassing transfer budget. To suggest that the likes of Curbishley etc could have done the same is exactly that - suggestion.

[47er]

That wasn't my point and you know it. But if you want names, Alan Curbishly and Avram grant.

I want to stress that I am NOT saying we should have hired them instead of Sam, only that I believe either of them would have 'saved' us the same way in which Sam did. My point is that Sam does not have a unique skill that should protect him from the sack in the future.

I'm sorry but it was pretty straight forward, sack Ince and replace him with anyone with a half decent name in footy and instantly rejuvenate the squad's confidence and that was what happened. It was the sacking of Ince that got morale up in the squad and not the hiring of Allardyce.

We went from 12 games without a win and mostly draws to 8 games without a loss (although mostly draws) which to me smacks of a change in management being the effect rather than the actual manager personally bringing in amazing tactics we'd never seen before. I think you would have seen the same efefct had any decent manager been brought in.

And undermining Rovers as a club has become the norm for Sam in interviews recently.

I realise you love circular repetitive endless arguments with other members. Further I understand your points, I've always understood them, Heaven knows I've heard them often enough. I don't agree with them, your conclusions above are simply conjecture not fact and simply continue the undermining of the manager mission you have been on for months. If we'd lost on Saturday you'd be on here about a "crisis" and saying Sam had the next 2 games to save his job. Most of the people who share your views at least have the common sense to shut up when we've won.

Luckily for Rovers it doesn't matter because he's not going anywhere.

[S15]

So did Hughes so my point stands, Sam has no UNIQUE skill. You may view it as rare, but we know it's demonstrably true that other people can manage us without getting us relegated. Souness didn't flirt with relelation either til the end of his tenure.

Compared to Sam, Hughes was buying success.

And Souness flirted with the drop the first season we got promoted.

[Guest bluerovers]

Compared to Sam, Hughes was buying success.

And Souness flirted with the drop the first season we got promoted.

Yeah coz Hughes spent over £6m on one player like Sam has right? I think hiss most expensive buy was Mccarthy at £3.5m wasn't it?

Also flirting with relegation and actually getting relegated are two seperate things and you'd expect us to be near the drop zone after just getting promoted, staying up in your first season after promotion I would argue is just as hard (if not harder) that keeping a semi-established team up when they are 5 point a drift with still half the season to play.

Sam had 21 games (a possible 63 points) to claw back just 5 points over teams with inferior squads than ours at the time, I don't think it was as big an acheivement as some on here like to remember.

[trueblue]

Yeah coz Hughes spent over £6m on one player like Sam has right? I think hiss most expensive buy was Mccarthy at £3.5m wasn't it?

Also flirting with relegation and actually getting relegated are two seperate things and you'd expect us to be near the drop zone after just getting promoted, staying up in your first season after promotion I would argue is just as hard (if not harder) that keeping a semi-established team up when they are 5 point a drift with still half the season to play.

Sam had 21 games (a possible 63 points) to claw back just 5 points over teams with inferior squads than ours at the time, I don't think it was as big an acheivement as some on here like to remember.

Well, I bet Ince wouldn't have managed it!

[S15]

Yeah coz Hughes spent over £6m on one player like Sam has right? I think hiss most expensive buy was Mccarthy at £3.5m wasn't it?

Also flirting with relegation and actually getting relegated are two seperate things and you'd expect us to be near the drop zone after just getting promoted, staying up in your first season after promotion I would argue is just as hard (if not harder) that keeping a semi-established team up when they are 5 point a drift with still half the season to play.

Sam had 21 games (a possible 63 points) to claw back just 5 points over teams with inferior squads than ours at the time, I don't think it was as big an acheivement as some on here like to remember.

Yeah cos Hughes had to sell £24m worth of players in one summer.

Better teams than what we had that season have been relegated, just remember 99.

[Guest bluerovers]

Because Ince was cr*p, as I've said 1000 times

[MarkBRFC71]

You may or may not be right-------but what sort of idiot would take the risk?

Jesus wept, I'll say it again for the 1000th time - I'm not advocating getting rid of Sam now. Unless and until the takeover goes through, AND brings with it a significant pot of money. If that happens (and I appreciate it looks a big 'if' at the mo) then I think we can and should aim higher.

Clear enough now?

[rebelmswar]

Yeah coz Hughes spent over £6m on one player like Sam has right? I think hiss most expensive buy was Mccarthy at £3.5m wasn't it?

Also flirting with relegation and actually getting relegated are two seperate things and you'd expect us to be near the drop zone after just getting promoted, staying up in your first season after promotion I would argue is just as hard (if not harder) that keeping a semi-established team up when they are 5 point a drift with still half the season to play.

Sam had 21 games (a possible 63 points) to claw back just 5 points over teams with inferior squads than ours at the time, I don't think it was as big an acheivement as some on here like to remember.

I dont understand this, I really dont.

The man has had zero money to spend. ZERO. We got outbid for a player in the 100s of thousands for the love of God. Hughes never had to work under such conditions, and the playing staff that he had was so much better. Cruz, Bentley, Warnock, Tugs, a slimmer Benni, etc.

Sam has tried to replace the players we have lost with an eighth of the money that we got for them, and in this season, none of it.

I can not name for the life of me another Premier League manager who has had to deal with this problem. Stoke, Wolves, West Ham, WBA, Birmingham are all financial powerhouses compared to us at the moment, and people have this inbuilt angst against Sam that blinds them from seeing the dire and almost terminal situation that he is in. I couldnt give a ###### if he hoofs the ball to the moon as long as we grind out results, and he does.

Look how much the relegated teams lavished on their squads and then look at us. Look at the amounts that were thrown around by clubs that should be our inferiors.

Madness. Most managers would be terrified to take on such a job.

[MarkBRFC71]

Yeah cos Hughes had to sell £24m worth of players in one summer.

Better teams than what we had that season have been relegated, just remember 99.

Was Santa Cruz really 'worth' £18m? We all thought at the time he was vastly overpriced, and time has shown us to be correct.

And don't forget Sam got £12m of that to spend - more than Hughes ever got.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Jesus wept, I'll say it again for the 1000th time - I'm not advocating getting rid of Sam now. Unless and until the takeover goes through, AND brings with it a significant pot of money. If that happens (and I appreciate it looks a big 'if' at the mo) then I think we can and should aim higher.

Clear enough now?

If a takeover happened I'd be very worried and suspicious of new owners who sacked a boss within five minutes of arriving when he didn't deserve it.

Madness. Most managers would be terrified to take on such a job.

Exactly. I doubt that any manager of worth would ever consider working for Rovers under the current regime.

[MarkBRFC71]

If a takeover happened I'd be very worried and suspicious of new owners who sacked a boss within five minutes of arriving when he didn't deserve it.

The question is would you trust him to spend £10-20m wisely? I'm not sure I would.

I don't think we'd sack him, maybe politely encourage him to look closer at opportunities in Dubai.

[rebelmswar]

Was Santa Cruz really 'worth' £18m?

Not to City obviously, but to us - yes. We would be in a far better position if those sales were not made. Same goes for Bentley.

We all thought at the time he was vastly overpriced, and time has shown us to be correct.

Overpriced yes, and a shrewd bit of business. Would still bite your hand off if offered to came back

And don't forget Sam got £12m of that to spend - more than Hughes ever got.

Hughes never had the majority of his key players sold out from underneath him either.