[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[deryck guyler's spoon]

The question is would you trust him to spend £10-20m wisely? I'm not sure I would.

I don't think we'd sack him, maybe politely encourage him to look closer at opportunities in Dubai.

Same thing really. Alardyce isn't daft, he'd know when he's being shoved out and wouldn't stand for that. There is much to be said for stability and forcing out a very effective manager would be an inauspicious start for potential new owners.

As for his spending in the transfer market, much has been made of his signings at Newcastle. It seems to have been forgotten that when he did sign big at Bolton he got Anelka.

[BuckyRover]

We would not be in a better position had we kept Roque. He is permanently injured.

[MarkBRFC71]

Same thing really. Alardyce isn't daft, he'd know when he's being shoved out and wouldn't stand for that. There is much to be said for stability and forcing out a very effective manager would be an inauspicious start for potential new orders.

As for his spending in the transfer market, much has been made of his signings at Newcastle. It seems to have been forgotten that when he did sign big at Bolton he got Anelka.

Do you think that maybe all his recent blatant self-promotion is because he's got wind that the new owners might not (despite what they said publicly) want him here when the takeover goes through? Seems odd that he was largely benign until recently, and since the takeover started to get serious he's been talking himself up to whoever would listen almost daily ....

[Guest bluerovers]

Yeah cos Hughes had to sell £24m worth of players in one summer.

Nor did Sam??? When have we sold £24m worth of players in one summer?

[rebelmswar]

Nor did Sam??? When have we sold £24m worth of players in one summer?

Are you serious?

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Do you think that maybe all his recent blatant self-promotion is because he's got wind that the new owners might not (despite what they said publicly) want him here when the takeover goes through? Seems odd that he was largely benign until recently, and since the takeover started to get serious he's been talking himself up to whoever would listen almost daily ....

I'm not sure, I think he's always had a big gob as a manager. Despite the very effective job he's done for us I'm not a big fan.

[47er]

Yeah coz Hughes spent over £6m on one player like Sam has right? I think hiss most expensive buy was Mccarthy at £3.5m wasn't it?

Also flirting with relegation and actually getting relegated are two seperate things and you'd expect us to be near the drop zone after just getting promoted, staying up in your first season after promotion I would argue is just as hard (if not harder) that keeping a semi-established team up when they are 5 point a drift with still half the season to play.

Sam had 21 games (a possible 63 points) to claw back just 5 points over teams with inferior squads than ours at the time, I don't think it was as big an acheivement as some on here like to remember.

It was a HUGE achievement and well on par with Hughes' miracle a few years earlier. We appointed 2 terrific managers there. Hughes was/is the better of them in my opinion but I'm mighty glad we had both.

Jesus wept, I'll say it again for the 1000th time - I'm not advocating getting rid of Sam now. Unless and until the takeover goes through, AND brings with it a significant pot of money. If that happens (and I appreciate it looks a big 'if' at the mo) then I think we can and should aim higher.

Clear enough now?

The only words you've written a thousand times about Sam Allardyce are nasty ones. At the moment you can't advocate sacking him because you'd look a bigger pillock than you do already. But you want him out and you hope the takeover will be the means of it. In the meantime you'll snipe away because that's what you do.

[Guest bluerovers]

Are you serious?

Yes, I have the internet so it's possible to check these things, the highest income we got in one summer recently was £20m last summer (£17m on which was for RSC who by that time was only 'worth' circa £5m). The same summer we also spent £11m in ourselves so to say Sam had to deal with £24m loss of talent in one summer is rubbish

Edit: to be fair that £20m I quoted doesn't include Warnock's fee as that was undisclosed..

[47er]

Do you think that maybe all his recent blatant self-promotion is because he's got wind that the new owners might not (despite what they said publicly) want him here when the takeover goes through? Seems odd that he was largely benign until recently, and since the takeover started to get serious he's been talking himself up to whoever would listen almost daily ....

Are you addicted to pointless speculation?

[rebelmswar]

Yes, I have the internet so it's possible to check these things, the highest income we got in one summer recently was £20m last summer (£17m on which was for RSC who by that time was only 'worth' circa £5m). The same summer we also spent £11m in ourselves so to say Sam had to deal with £24m loss of talent in one summer is rubbish

Edit: to be fair that £20m I quoted doesn't include Warnock's fee as that was undisclosed..

Yes and I am sure he didn't move for free, and 4 million would be a pretty decent assumption based on the ludicrous fees being thrown around in that window.

I don't understand some of the arguments you get yourself in, I really don't.

[Guest bluerovers]

Screw it why not say he was worth £10m and make it 30? Besides we STILL spent £11m in that window

[LeChuck]

Screw it why not say he was worth £10m and make it 30? Besides we STILL spent £11m in that window

Because he obviously didn't go for £10 million? Your powers of reasoning are astonishing!

All reports suggest Warnock went for somewhere between £6-£8 million (probably depends how many of the add-ons are factored in). Sounds very reasonable for someone of his ability.

Add that to the Roque fee and that's at least £24 million going out. I don't know why you're trying to pretend otherwise.

[rebelmswar]

Screw it why not say he was worth £10m and make it 30? Besides we STILL spent £11m in that window

With so many holes that had to be plugged that was nowhere near enough. Fans screamed and cried about the possibilities of signing Davies, Beattie, etc. and we ended up signing a striker who was labeled "the future of Croatian football" by a manager that many foamed at the mouth about being our manager.

There is no need to say 10 million but that is closer to the mark than your original assumption, which must have been zero, unless you conceded that point.

Hughes never had to deal with such player losses and that is a fact. We sold off Bentley and muppet boy bought some pretty dodgy material with the money, and never filled that position. It was left to Sam to deal with that issue as well.

[Ricky]

so to say Sam had to deal with £24m loss of talent in one summer is rubbish

Why let facts get in the way of an argument.

Sam had to sell £24m of talent that summer.. FACT... move on!!

[eire3382]

If anyone wants to seriously compare sparky to sam then do it probably.

You must consider the situations they found the club in when they arrived. Both arrived when the club was in danger of going down but there were differences.

When Hughes arrived the squad was for the most part pretty strong ( Tugod, MGP, reid, goal keeping god, emo) and really just needed initially freshening up and some organisation. He then bought well and built a strong team. He is a briliant manager and came to us at the perfect time for both he and the club.

When Sam arrived things seemed so much worse but the players were there. He turned things around and again made some good signings which had immediate impacts. He is now building a team which I for one think is starting to take shape but money and time are needed to do this. We gave sparky the time and some money (he wasn’t given loads but enough) now sam needs the same. Again I think he arrived at the club at the perfect time for both.

We have been very lucky to have two great managers (imo) of the modern premier league at our club in recent years and both deserve respect. You don’t have to like sam ( there are times he drives me mad, trying to defend 1 goal leads too early in a match etc) but he is rovers manager and so he deserves our support and he HAS earned our respect for his achievements.

[Guest bluerovers]

Why let facts get in the way of an argument.

Sam had to sell £24m of talent that summer.. FACT... move on!!

I'm glad you mentioned that because that is the crux of this argument, not the figure in £££s exactly but the amount of talent lost. Originally I said that Hughes never got to bring in £6m worth of talent in one player, to which the rebuttal was that he enevr had to deal with losing £24m worth of talent like Sam did.

Roque, was not then and is not now £17m worth of TALENT. For starters we'd been without him for months before we even sold him and he played very little part in Sam's 'miracle' of keeping us up. So in that sense we weren't losing anything by letting him go let alone someone worth £17m to our team.

And has time has proven his injuries have proved that price inflated. No club except man City would have paid anywhere near that for him.

In that summer we lost (from the regulars)

Derbyshire

RSC

Mokoena

Ooijer

Warnock

However we gained...

Jacobsen

N'Zonzi

Givet

Van Heerenden

Kalinic

Chimbonda

Was Kalinic worth £6m, at today's prices yeah, certainly no less than £4m, so I go back to the original point..Hughes never got to bring in £6m worth of talent in one window.

Why let facts get in the way of an argument.

Sam had to sell £24m of talent that summer.. FACT... move on!!

No £20m is FACT, Warnock's fee in addition to that is speculation. You can't use the word fact (let alone captitalise it) for what was an assumption, but nice David Brent impression anyway.

[MarkBRFC71]

1.The only words you've written a thousand times about Sam Allardyce are nasty ones.

2. At the moment you can't advocate sacking him because you'd look a bigger pillock than you do already.

3. But you want him out and you hope the takeover will be the means of it.

4. In the meantime you'll snipe away because that's what you do.

1. I've been critical where I feel it's justified, and I've always given my reasons for being so.

2. I can't advocate sacking him now because I don't think it's the right thing to do.

3. I don't like the man and his brand of football and I would not be sorry to see him go if the takeover went through.

4. See point 1 above.

It's a messageboard, for people to express their opinions. Mine differs from yours - deal with it like an adult instead of a petulant 4-year-old having a bitchstrop. Unfortunately you're not on your own in that respect on here these days.

Are you addicted to pointless speculation?

It was a genuine question, and I'm not the first to raise it. It's not pointless if it turns out to have some substance and he ends up leaving either?

I take it you never look at or post on the transfer thread? Isn't that just 'pointless speculation'?

Instead of looking at point scoring via petty snipes please just don't bother posting.

[LeChuck]

Hughes never got to bring in £6m worth of talent in one window.

Because he never sold £24 million worth of players (as has been pointed out several times).

Had Hughes so desperately wanted to spend that amount of money, he could have cashed in on Bentley/Roque/Samba/McCarthy etc.

The fact that he chose to keep his best players and work with less money gives you a strong indication about which is the more preferable of the two scenarios.

In fact, I can't think of any manager that willingly flogs his best players in order to spend 40% of the cash. All managers try to keep their best players, so stop pretending like Allardyce had it better than Hughes because it's simply not true.

[S15]

I'm glad you mentioned that because that is the crux of this argument, not the figure in £££s exactly but the amount of talent lost. Originally I said that Hughes never got to bring in £6m worth of talent in one player, to which the rebuttal was that he enevr had to deal with losing £24m worth of talent like Sam did.

Roque, was not then and is not now £17m worth of TALENT. For starters we'd been without him for months before we even sold him and he played very little part in Sam's 'miracle' of keeping us up. So in that sense we weren't losing anything by letting him go let alone someone worth £17m to our team.

And has time has proven his injuries have proved that price inflated. No club except man City would have paid anywhere near that for him.

In that summer we lost (from the regulars)

Derbyshire

RSC

Mokoena

Ooijer

Warnock

However we gained...

Jacobsen

N'Zonzi

Givet

Van Heerenden

Kalinic

Chimbonda

Was Kalinic worth £6m, at today's prices yeah, certainly no less than £4m, so I go back to the original point..Hughes never got to bring in £6m worth of talent in one window.

No £20m is FACT, Warnock's fee in addition to that is speculation. You can't use the word fact (let alone captitalise it) for what was an assumption, but nice David Brent impression anyway.

Jesus you're really talking out of your arse now.

Let's reword it shall we, Hughes never finished a window having been £15m down of talent after trading.

Also, Bellamy cost as near to dammit as £6m, so your argument is even weaker than you're presenting it.

[Guest bluerovers]

Because he never sold £24 million worth of players (as has been pointed out several times).

Nor has Sam sold £24m WORTH OF TALENT.

And so the circle is complete

[LeChuck]

Nor has Sam sold £24m WORTH OF TALENT.

And so the circle is complete

If you're going to be a dick and use large font, at least have the dignity not to change what I said.

Why did you ignore the rest of my post?

If Hughes had wanted to spend £6 million+ on a player he could have sold one of our assets to do so. He chose not to. Tells you all you need to know really.

[Guest bluerovers]

Jesus you're really talking out of your arse now.

Still going with the ad-hominem tactic I see. Nothing adds more wight to an argument than offensive bringing down of your opponent eh?

Anyway, let's get to the substance....

Let's reword it shall we, Hughes never finished a window having been £15m down of talent after trading.

Are you now talking about the window Bentley left or you still arguing that RSC, who hadn't played in months, was a £17m talent loss blow to Sam?

Also, Bellamy cost as near to dammit as £6m, so your argument is even weaker than you're presenting it.

Using your maths, I'm skint but near as dammit a millionaire!

[Guest bluerovers]

If you're going to be a dick and use large font, at least have the dignity not to change what I said.

Why did you ignore the rest of my post?

I changed what you said because it's an important distinction. Getting £24m in in transfers fees doesn't mean you have lost £24m worth of footballing talent from your arsenal (which was the original point).

i ignored the rest of your post because it was based on the same incorrect distinction. Selling Bentley/McCarthy etc at their heights would have been big losses in terms of talent value to the team for Hughes. IMO that is not comparable to Sam selling a crocked RSC who'd played little part in our mini-revival to a club with an over-active cheque book that opens easier than Jordan's thighs.

[S15]

Still going with the ad-hominem tactic I see. Nothing adds more wight to an argument than offensive bringing down of your opponent eh?

Anyway, let's get to the substance....

Are you now talking about the window Bentley left or you still arguing that RSC, who hadn't played in months, was a £17m talent loss blow to Sam?

Using your maths, I'm skint but near as dammit a millionaire!

I wasn't insulting you personally, just what you were saying, so stop being so bloody precious.

Yes, paying £4.5m-£5.5m in relation to £6m is the same as you nearly being a millionaire despite being 'skint.'

You're so pedantic and your arguments never have any weight, so how about taking a breather?

[Guest bluerovers]

Your argument is 'well £5m is basically £6m aint it'. Not to a club like ours it aint....