[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[MarkBRFC71]

Name a manager who would be willing to come to Rovers and is guaranteed to keep us in the top flight with no money to spend who is a) available cheap c ) experienced.

He doesn't exist.

I rest my case.

No manager is guaranteed to keep us in the Premier League - including Allardyce. IMO we are just as likely to go down with him in charge as not, but it makes no sense to change until (if?) the takeover happens unless results make his position untenable.

[BuckyRover]

Roberto Di Matteo

[Bobby G]

How fickle fans are.

FACT - Allardyce is CURRENTLY the best man for the job. He has done an EXCELLENT job CONSIDERING his "resources".

We can't have our cake and eat it too. I hate launching long balls up field like we were against Stoke, especially when its not working. As long as we get the results, at this point, I could care less how we achieve it. Once we consolidate our position by the end of the season, it would be a good time to look to develop the playing side of things and begin judging performances in a much more serious manner.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

It's the board's job to do that, but I suppose it's also their job to decide if there is a problem with the current management.

But seeing as your asking, OK then... Martin O'Neil.

You provide a long, lucid and interesting post about our current tactics and then advocate the appointment of another long ball merchant?

[jim mk2]

Roberto Di Matteo

Neither available, nor experienced, nor likely to be cheap nor guaranteed to keep us in the PL.

Next.

[gumboots]

How fickle fans are.

FACT - Allardyce is CURRENTLY the best man for the job. He has done an EXCELLENT job CONSIDERING his "resources".

We can't have our cake and eat it too. I hate launching long balls up field like we were against Stoke, especially when its not working. As long as we get the results, at this point, I could care less how we achieve it. Once we consolidate our position by the end of the season, it would be a good time to look to develop the playing side of things and begin judging performances in a much more serious manner.

Problems are: 1) What if we don't get taken over?

2) What if we're in the relegation zone by Christmas?

3) Once you've got into the hoofball bad habit, it's very hard to play any

other way with confidence. As has been said earlier, it's only now that

Bolton are really getting a bit more style to their play, years after he

left.

I can't see a viable alternative to allardyce in the short term, but I sure as heck wish I could.

[Dan]

You shouldn't. 8 points in 7 PL matches. 1.142 points per game, against not the worst of the PL teams. 38 games in a season. We are on track for 43.4 points. We will do better and we will play worse teams. Even some of our losses haven't been heavily distorted one way, unlike last year. I think we are solid for 50 plus points, even with no investment.

Yes, that means that Sam has to play not so pretty football. We need to get over that. We don't have the budget of ManC, ManU, Arsenal, etc. We play what we can afford and Sam will keep us up.

Unfortunatly football isn't an exact science, you can't base the rest if the season on 7 matches. If 2 opposition goalkeepers hadn't messed up against us where would we be?

Against Stoke we never looked like scoring in a million years. Yes Stoke are a decent side now, but to not create 1 decent chance? If we carry on with this way of playing we won't create too much and will rely on errors and scrappy goals. 1st halves against Arsenal and Villa we looked threatening, we were trying to play football. In the 2nd halves when we sat back and hoofed it we looked useless, as we have done all season trying these 'tactics'.

Can Sam not see that we look a better team playing football? We look more likely to score and it's much much more exciting to watch. Why can't we play like this more often? We can defend a lead/a point without hoofing it! Everytime we hoof it, it comes straight back. We might not have fantastic players, but they play football much better than they play hoofball.

[John]

Can Sam not see that we look a better team playing football? We look more likely to score and it's much much more exciting to watch. Why can't we play like this more often? We can defend a lead/a point without hoofing it! Everytime we hoof it, it comes straight back. We might not have fantastic players, but they play football much better than they play hoofball.

You are vastly overating the playing staff we have, particularly from an attacking perspective.

What has got us results under Sam, "hoofball" as you like to put it, or playing the beautiful game?

[67splitscreen]

Unfortunatly football isn't an exact science, you can't base the rest if the season on 7 matches. If 2 opposition goalkeepers hadn't messed up against us where would we be?

Against Stoke we never looked like scoring in a million years. Yes Stoke are a decent side now, but to not create 1 decent chance? If we carry on with this way of playing we won't create too much and will rely on errors and scrappy goals. 1st halves against Arsenal and Villa we looked threatening, we were trying to play football. In the 2nd halves when we sat back and hoofed it we looked useless, as we have done all season trying these 'tactics'.

Can Sam not see that we look a better team playing football? We look more likely to score and it's much much more exciting to watch. Why can't we play like this more often? We can defend a lead/a point without hoofing it! Everytime we hoof it, it comes straight back. We might not have fantastic players, but they play football much better than they play hoofball.

it all goes tit's up once Sam comes down from the stands, coincidence.

[Commondore]

You are vastly overating the playing staff we have, particularly from an attacking perspective.

What has got us results under Sam, "hoofball" as you like to put it, or playing the beautiful game?

Who the f**k asked for "the beautiful game"?! This cheap rhetoric trick has been used so many times now it's starting to sicken me... Can we at least agree that there is ground between the Allardyce way of playing football and the Barcelona way? Please?

[67splitscreen]

Who the f**k asked for "the beautiful game"?! This cheap rhetoric trick has been used so many times now it's starting to sicken me... Can we at least agree that there is ground between the Allardyce way of playing football and the Barcelona way? Please?

Agreed, the Dutch side of the 70's will do for now.

[John]

I was making the point that our manager is paid to get results, not put on performances. As for the players we currently have, I think they would struggle to play more open, expansive football and also get results.

[Steve Moss]

Unfortunatly football isn't an exact science, you can't base the rest if the season on 7 matches. If 2 opposition goalkeepers hadn't messed up against us where would we be?

Against Stoke we never looked like scoring in a million years. Yes Stoke are a decent side now, but to not create 1 decent chance? If we carry on with this way of playing we won't create too much and will rely on errors and scrappy goals. 1st halves against Arsenal and Villa we looked threatening, we were trying to play football. In the 2nd halves when we sat back and hoofed it we looked useless, as we have done all season trying these 'tactics'.

I calculated where we are likely to end up by extrapolating our performances over 7 games throughout the entire season. Yes, it is not science or any sort of guarantee. However it is a data point, an indicator, much like a poll. I submitted the information to place our performances to date in context of the overall season and, hopefully, avoid too much of my personal opinion.

And I think we had a decent chance to score with Emerton. I think there may have been one or two others but I confess the matches sometimes become blurred in my alcohol laden brain so maybe I'm confused.

And I would argue the fact that we have looked "threatening" against Arsenal and Villa, if only for half a game, indicates that we have what it takes to match or exceed last season's results. And I agree that there is a "tale of two halves" issue going on and that it's up to Sam to sort it out. However, I would argue that 7 games with 8 points is not a five fire alarm emergency as some are making out. Especially as last season's top goal scorer, Dunn, and Roberts, our most experienced striker, have not yet participated due to injury/fitness issues.

I do, however, reserve the right to begin to panic if we aren't at 11 or more points in 10 matches. I won't actually be panicking, mind you, but exploring the possibility.

[tony gale's mic]

We've had a bit of an indifferent start to the season but if you were a neutral, looking at the side we were having, would you say we're doing particularly badly right now? I'd say we're a bit below par so far but that's hardly room to call for Sam's head.

Some people need to get a grip.

[John]

I find it ridiculous the complete over reaction there is to every draw/defeat.

Yes, particuarly away from home, we can be dire however try and remain some perspective.

Good to have high expectation levels however this thread is a bit like the takeover one, goes round and round in circles!!

[hi-jaq]

You provide a long, lucid and interesting post about our current tactics and then advocate the appointment of another long ball merchant?

I dont think Martin O'Neil is even in the same stratosphere of long ball-ness that our beloved Sam is in!!! As said before by other posters, there is a time to lump it up there & hope for the best, but that time isn't from the first minute to very last!!!

I also find interesting that someone said before that we need to consolidate our position in the league then look to play a bit more football... Now I'm pretty sure that I'm watching the same team as everyone else on here? You know, the lads in blue & white halves that play at the football ground I was born across the road from, it's called Ewood Park... yep Blackburn Rovers... ever since Sam took charge he's been slowly sucking the football out of us, not waiting till it's ok, then letting us play. This isn't going to happen, he's going to keep buying gigantic midfield players that can get into both boxes to defend & attack then during open play, we can kick the ball over their heads.

I'm sorry but I've been frustrated with what he's doing, since he started doing it, which was around about the start of last season. After the way Tugay was playing at the end of that year, he would have been worth another 1 year deal & I'm sure had he thought one was coming he would have signed it, but like Sparky shifting on Tony Parkes to signal his arrival, this was Sam saying, "OK boys, he's too small for what we are going to be doing & too way good for you lot, now lets get down to business... no 5 yard passes from now on & whoever kicks the ball the furthest in a game wins a prize!!!"

I just feel disappointed, I can see what is happening, and I don't want it to. What I say really has no bearing on the situation, but for me he's had 2 years & the standard of football is getting worse, it won't be long before there is a health warning on the tickets for those in the lower tiers & Riverside, and we are making & selling more blue & white neck braces than replica shirts.

It would be suicide to get shut now, but if it continues as it is then the majority of the fans will turn on him to force him out or the board to sack him, and rightly so in my opinion!!!

[tony gale's mic]

I dont think Martin O'Neil is even in the same stratosphere of long ball-ness that our beloved Sam is in!!! As said before by other posters, there is a time to lump it up there & hope for the best, but that time isn't from the first minute to very last!!!

I also find interesting that someone said before that we need to consolidate our position in the league then look to play a bit more football... Now I'm pretty sure that I'm watching the same team as everyone else on here? You know, the lads in blue & white halves that play at the football ground I was born across the road from, it's called Ewood Park... yep Blackburn Rovers... ever since Sam took charge he's been slowly sucking the football out of us, not waiting till it's ok, then letting us play. This isn't going to happen, he's going to keep buying gigantic midfield players that can get into both boxes to defend & attack then during open play, we can kick the ball over their heads.

I'm sorry but I've been frustrated with what he's doing, since he started doing it, which was around about the start of last season. After the way Tugay was playing at the end of that year, he would have been worth another 1 year deal & I'm sure had he thought one was coming he would have signed it, but like Sparky shifting on Tony Parkes to signal his arrival, this was Sam saying, "OK boys, he's too small for what we are going to be doing & too way good for you lot, now lets get down to business... no 5 yard passes from now on & whoever kicks the ball the furthest in a game wins a prize!!!"

I just feel disappointed, I can see what is happening, and I don't want it to. What I say really has no bearing on the situation, but for me he's had 2 years & the standard of football is getting worse, it won't be long before there is a health warning on the tickets for those in the lower tiers & Riverside, and we are making & selling more blue & white neck braces than replica shirts.

It would be suicide to get shut now, but if it continues as it is then the majority of the fans will turn on him to force him out or the board to sack him, and rightly so in my opinion!!!

So if we get to 10th (or at least a safe mid table slot) in the league again despite absolutely no investment, you'd want to force him out because of the quality of football?

I think St James' Park might have a few seats going...

[47er]

it all goes tit's up once Sam comes down from the stands, coincidence.

Well there's that and the half-time speech!

[hi-jaq]

I find it ridiculous the complete over reaction there is to every draw/defeat.

Yes, particuarly away from home, we can be dire however try and remain some perspective.

Good to have high expectation levels however this thread is a bit like the takeover one, goes round and round in circles!!

It's not the results I'm referring to, and I think I speak for quite a few people when I say, it's the way we play the game.

It's a results business, I know this... but it's also about entertainment, and making your fans go home happy, making them want to continue to buy season tickets, walk on tickets, merchandise, etc. The argument is that we don't play like that coz we have no money, thats proper bobbins!!! We spent less under Hughes in his first 2 years, played good football & qualified for Europe... that cant be argued against!!!

[47er]

I dont think Martin O'Neil is even in the same stratosphere of long ball-ness that our beloved Sam is in!!! As said before by other posters, there is a time to lump it up there & hope for the best, but that time isn't from the first minute to very last!!!

I also find interesting that someone said before that we need to consolidate our position in the league then look to play a bit more football... Now I'm pretty sure that I'm watching the same team as everyone else on here? You know, the lads in blue & white halves that play at the football ground I was born across the road from, it's called Ewood Park... yep Blackburn Rovers... ever since Sam took charge he's been slowly sucking the football out of us, not waiting till it's ok, then letting us play. This isn't going to happen, he's going to keep buying gigantic midfield players that can get into both boxes to defend & attack then during open play, we can kick the ball over their heads.

I'm sorry but I've been frustrated with what he's doing, since he started doing it, which was around about the start of last season. After the way Tugay was playing at the end of that year, he would have been worth another 1 year deal & I'm sure had he thought one was coming he would have signed it, but like Sparky shifting on Tony Parkes to signal his arrival, this was Sam saying, "OK boys, he's too small for what we are going to be doing & too way good for you lot, now lets get down to business... no 5 yard passes from now on & whoever kicks the ball the furthest in a game wins a prize!!!"

I just feel disappointed, I can see what is happening, and I don't want it to. What I say really has no bearing on the situation, but for me he's had 2 years & the standard of football is getting worse, it won't be long before there is a health warning on the tickets for those in the lower tiers & Riverside, and we are making & selling more blue & white neck braces than replica shirts.

It would be suicide to get shut now, but if it continues as it is then the majority of the fans will turn on him to force him out or the board to sack him, and rightly so in my opinion!!!

Can't agree with you about O'Neil. Even with nearly 100M of Lerners money his side is as boring as hell and utterly 1 dimensional. With all that dosh the team should have played better football AND finished higher in the league. Seems to me that that you're asking for more of the same except that MON couldn't be guaranteed to keep us in the Premiership with no funding and Sam can. Just about.

Unfortunatly football isn't an exact science, you can't base the rest if the season on 7 matches. If 2 opposition goalkeepers hadn't messed up against us where would we be?

Against Stoke we never looked like scoring in a million years. Yes Stoke are a decent side now, but to not create 1 decent chance? If we carry on with this way of playing we won't create too much and will rely on errors and scrappy goals. 1st halves against Arsenal and Villa we looked threatening, we were trying to play football. In the 2nd halves when we sat back and hoofed it we looked useless, as we have done all season trying these 'tactics'.

Can Sam not see that we look a better team playing football? We look more likely to score and it's much much more exciting to watch. Why can't we play like this more often? We can defend a lead/a point without hoofing it! Everytime we hoof it, it comes straight back. We might not have fantastic players, but they play football much better than they play hoofball.

Ask yourself--how many of our players would get a game with a Premier League side likely to finish 10th or there abouts? Samba? Robinson (possibly)?. Jones would be taken on. I think thats it.

[tony gale's mic]

It's not the results I'm referring to, and I think I speak for quite a few people when I say, it's the way we play the game.

It's a results business, I know this... but it's also about entertainment, and making your fans go home happy, making them want to continue to buy season tickets, walk on tickets, merchandise, etc. The argument is that we don't play like that coz we have no money, thats proper bobbins!!! We spent less under Hughes in his first 2 years, played good football & qualified for Europe... that cant be argued against!!!

Er...yes it can, no matter how many exclamation marks you put in.

Sam only got £6 million to spend on Kalinic because he sold tens of millions worth of talent that he wasn't given the due proceeds back for. Sam's transfer budget has been hugely negative, whereas Hughes spent more than he sold. We played half decent football under Hughes mainly because of three players: Tugay (inherited from Souness), Bentley (signed for £4 million) and Bellamy (signed for £5 million). Even then though we had many people knocking our style of play.

Yes he qualified for Europe, but City weren't around, Spurs were flirting with relegation for much of his reign, Villa only emerged towards the end of his reign as a spending power and Sunderland and Birmingham weren't spending anything like the money they are doing now.

Your fans will go home much happier if their side wins 1-0 playing "hoofball" than if their side loses 4-3 playing nice triangles and an free flowing passing game. That cannot be argued against. That's why our home record was so fantastic last season and why we're still getting good crowds this season.

[hi-jaq]

So if we get to 10th (or at least a safe mid table slot) in the league again despite absolutely no investment, you'd want to force him out because of the quality of football?

I think St James' Park might have a few seats going...

Yep... and if you're saying to me that you're happy with it, then you have become as deluded as half the Rovers fans I know.

No investment this season, fair enough. Kalinic, £6m, Givet £3/4m, Diouf £1.5m, Chimbonda £1m the season before (I didn't include N'Zonzi, because he was signed for peanuts!!!) & only Warnock's money in... massive wages on Salgado & now Pedersen too. I'm sorry but we have invested in 2 good players that fit Sam's system, Givet & N'Zonzi, the rest I don't think are good signings for what Sam wants to do.

As for the last line there, thanks but no thanks... I have no choice over who I support, as most others who support our club, we were born into it, that is why it's so painful to watch, and if it's not painful to you, then it maybe you who should be up at St James' park in the first place!!!

[John]

It's a results business, I know this... but it's also about entertainment, and making your fans go home happy, making them want to continue to buy season tickets, walk on tickets, merchandise, etc. The argument is that we don't play like that coz we have no money, thats proper bobbins!!! We spent less under Hughes in his first 2 years, played good football & qualified for Europe... that cant be argued against!!!

I agree some of our performances are painful to watch however as Sam has rightly said himself, he is paid to get results first and foremost.

I understand your frustration on our playing style, but who in our team should be given more freedom to show us their stuff - go on, please name them? The pace and sheer proven quality we have throughout our whole strikeforce really excites me too....

Sam makes mistakes of course however my opinion is he is the perfect fit for us, for now.

[92er]

Er...yes it can, no matter how many exclamation marks you put in.

Sam only got £6 million to spend on Kalinic because he sold tens of millions worth of talent that he wasn't given the due proceeds back for. Sam's transfer budget has been hugely negative, whereas Hughes spent more than he sold. We played half decent football under Hughes mainly because of three players: Tugay (inherited from Souness), Bentley (signed for £4 million) and Bellamy (signed for £5 million). Even then though we had many people knocking our style of play.

Although I accept that Wikipedia claims the fee for Bellamy was £5 million, the figure referred to at the time by the LET was a cut price £3.75mil. Unfortunatley the paper's archives don't go back far enough.

I'm also pretty sure the figure quoted for signing Bentley was in the region of £1.35 mil. Of course, with the add-ons when he was sold, he turned out to be a lot more expensive.

The Directors didn't give Allardyce all the money raised from the sale of players as they had other losses to cover.

[tony gale's mic]

Yep... and if you're saying to me that you're happy with it, then you have become as deluded as half the Rovers fans I know.

No investment this season, fair enough. Kalinic, £6m, Givet £3/4m, Diouf £1.5m, Chimbonda £1m the season before (I didn't include N'Zonzi, because he was signed for peanuts!!!) & only Warnock's money in... massive wages on Salgado & now Pedersen too. I'm sorry but we have invested in 2 good players that fit Sam's system, Givet & N'Zonzi, the rest I don't think are good signings for what Sam wants to do.

As for the last line there, thanks but no thanks... I have no choice over who I support, as most others who support our club, we were born into it, that is why it's so painful to watch, and if it's not painful to you, then it maybe you who should be up at St James' park in the first place!!!

I'm "deluded"?! You're so deluded you've managed to forget the £17 million we supposedly recieved for Roque Santa Cruz!

Givet has been fantastic for us, Diouf has been well worth the money, yes he was poor for quite a bit of last season but played an important role when Sam saved us from relegation (remember that?) and has been a key player this season. Chimbonda has been a bit of a waste but was cheap anyway, and Niko has yet to really come good but is only 22 and far from his peak. Salgado isn't exactly on "massive wages", granted I don't claim to know for sure but all reports indicate he's probably on around 40k a week and considering we didnt pay a transfer fee for him and he's statistically the best tackler in the league so far this season and has come good for us, I'd say that was a good signing too.

The rest of the deluded @#/? you've been spouting was dealt with in my earlier post. If us winning games at home is so painful for you to watch then I dread to think what you thought of the Ince era.