[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[RibbleValleyRover]

Wasn't Warnock sold to cover the cost of Salgado's wages? A move that Sam pushed for despite the board telling him the wage budget was at its max?

Pretty sure this was mentioned by JW in the state of the finances article in the LT.

[Amo]

Wasn't Warnock sold to cover the cost of Salgado's wages? A move that Sam pushed for despite the board telling him the wage budget was at its max?

Pretty sure this was mentioned by JW in the state of the finances article in the LT.

"After a series of comings and goings (10 in and 10 out) the new wage target was looking very difficult and we chose to raise funds by selling Stephen Warnock, instead of lowering wages."

[tony gale's mic]

"After a series of comings and goings (10 in and 10 out) the new wage target was looking very difficult and we chose to raise funds by selling Stephen Warnock, instead of lowering wages."

Surely that shows that Warnock was sold because of a hole in the wage budget, rather than solely because of Salgado.

I think the figures we've seen banded about for Salgado is around 40k per week and I very much doubt it's more than that since clubs have a wage structure to adhere to. If that's the case then it's a pretty sensible wage to pay someone who was signed on a free and has done a very good job for us after a shaky start.

If Allardyce didn't breach that with Salgado he would have breached it with his next signing since 40k is a pretty average wage for a first team Premier League player.

[John]

You cannot just ignore external factors - Hughes said himself it was becoming more difficult to buy bargains in the transfer market - you cannot keep pulling rabbits out of the hat were his words. Hughes was fantastic for us and I don't think any manager would ever be able to replicate his work in relation to recuitment of players.

The transfer market believe it or not is pretty difficult especially when you have little/zero money...fact is that most of the other clubs in the league, particularly those clubs deemed in and around us, are spending considerably more.

The wage bill is high but no one manager is necessarily to blame as combination/succession of management & board of directors have caused the wage bill to be what it is today.

[hi-jaq]

I'm "deluded"?! You're so deluded you've managed to forget the £17 million we supposedly recieved for Roque Santa Cruz!

Givet has been fantastic for us, Diouf has been well worth the money, yes he was poor for quite a bit of last season but played an important role when Sam saved us from relegation (remember that?) and has been a key player this season. Chimbonda has been a bit of a waste but was cheap anyway, and Niko has yet to really come good but is only 22 and far from his peak. Salgado isn't exactly on "massive wages", granted I don't claim to know for sure but all reports indicate he's probably on around 40k a week and considering we didnt pay a transfer fee for him and he's statistically the best tackler in the league so far this season and has come good for us, I'd say that was a good signing too.

The rest of the deluded @#/? you've been spouting was dealt with in my earlier post. If us winning games at home is so painful for you to watch then I dread to think what you thought of the Ince era.

OK sorry, I'll shut up now, I clearly know nothing and am not entitled to my own opinion. We never beat Fulham at home, we got beat by Arsenal and I will be surprised if we get a result against Sunderland. Niko will never come good playing in the current system, that I would bet my life on, if we start playing 2 up top, or playing him coming in from out wide then it's a possibility, but he'll never do it as the focal point of our attack. As for Salgado, yes he's decent enough but when your right back is the only player on the pitch trying to play football you have a problem.

The Ince era was over as quick as it started, but because we are doing OK at the moment, there is no real reason to change things... but OK, playing crap football, it's not good enough. We are a Premier League club paying Premier League wages to Premier League players, but we play football that belongs in the Confrence at best, thats my opinion and I'm entitled to it, whether you disagree or not, you may be happy with what we are doing at the moment, they call that blind faith... I am not, thats just being honest!!!

[tony gale's mic]

OK sorry, I'll shut up now, I clearly know nothing and am not entitled to my own opinion. We never beat Fulham at home, we got beat by Arsenal and I will be surprised if we get a result against Sunderland. Niko will never come good playing in the current system, that I would bet my life on, if we start playing 2 up top, or playing him coming in from out wide then it's a possibility, but he'll never do it as the focal point of our attack. As for Salgado, yes he's decent enough but when your right back is the only player on the pitch trying to play football you have a problem.

The Ince era was over as quick as it started, but because we are doing OK at the moment, there is no real reason to change things... but OK, playing crap football, it's not good enough. We are a Premier League club paying Premier League wages to Premier League players, but we play football that belongs in the Confrence at best, thats my opinion and I'm entitled to it, whether you disagree or not, you may be happy with what we are doing at the moment, they call that blind faith... I am not, thats just being honest!!!

Your post goes back to the start of last season and so does my reference to my home form. Fulham are a good side who are still unbeaten this season. We lost against Arsenal - sack Sam immediately!

We are doing well in the league, this season is in its infancy but last season finishing 10th was very good, considering how much all the sides around us spent.

"Football that belongs in the Conference" - another bit of rubbish. Tactics aren't specific to divisions, up here in the Premiership you'll find clubs who play long ball football (eg Stoke) and I'm sure down in the Conference you'll find clubs who play a more passing style of football than we do because their opposition is much easier to pass it around.

You might be honest but your knowledge of football could probably be written on the back of a postage stamp.

[47er]

OK sorry, I'll shut up now, I clearly know nothing and am not entitled to my own opinion. We never beat Fulham at home, we got beat by Arsenal and I will be surprised if we get a result against Sunderland. Niko will never come good playing in the current system, that I would bet my life on, if we start playing 2 up top, or playing him coming in from out wide then it's a possibility, but he'll never do it as the focal point of our attack. As for Salgado, yes he's decent enough but when your right back is the only player on the pitch trying to play football you have a problem.

The Ince era was over as quick as it started, but because we are doing OK at the moment, there is no real reason to change things... but OK, playing crap football, it's not good enough. We are a Premier League club paying Premier League wages to Premier League players, but we play football that belongs in the Confrence at best, thats my opinion and I'm entitled to it, whether you disagree or not, you may be happy with what we are doing at the moment, they call that blind faith... I am not, thats just being honest!!!

In your words " because we are doing OK at the moment,there is no real reason to change things....". Doesn't make much sense to keep moaning then does it? We all accept that the football could be better, significantly better but it won't happen in the short-term especially without Dunn.

[Exiled in Toronto]

You might be honest but your knowledge of football could probably be written on the back of a postage stamp.

Why are you incapable of posting without being offensive to other posters? You are a main reason why this forum is going to the dogs. Grow up man.

[Miker]

OK sorry, I'll shut up now, I clearly know nothing and am not entitled to my own opinion. We never beat Fulham at home, we got beat by Arsenal and I will be surprised if we get a result against Sunderland. Niko will never come good playing in the current system, that I would bet my life on, if we start playing 2 up top, or playing him coming in from out wide then it's a possibility, but he'll never do it as the focal point of our attack. As for Salgado, yes he's decent enough but when your right back is the only player on the pitch trying to play football you have a problem.

The Ince era was over as quick as it started, but because we are doing OK at the moment, there is no real reason to change things... but OK, playing crap football, it's not good enough. We are a Premier League club paying Premier League wages to Premier League players, but we play football that belongs in the Confrence at best, thats my opinion and I'm entitled to it, whether you disagree or not, you may be happy with what we are doing at the moment, they call that blind faith... I am not, thats just being honest!!!

As the saying goes, if it's not broken, don't fix it.

The debate about the football we play gets way too subjective for my tastes because people go over-the-top with their opinion of it. I accept, and have accepted in the past, that we have played many games under Sam where the football has been pretty awful and boring to watch, but I maintain that Sam does not do much differently from other managers who choose to employ direct tactics in certain games.

The idea of Sam's tactics is to get it out of our half and into theirs and keep it there, ensure as little action as possible happens within our own area. Doesn't always work, but it's a completely acceptable and sensible tactic to employ WITHIN A PREMIER LEAGUE TEAM.

Mark Hughes has come out recently and said that Fulham need to stop playing the "pretty" football they've been playing away from home and start clearing their lines instead to take stock of the situation, so that they can start winning their games and get tighter defensively. This is the man that people on here are comparing to Sam, and he's actually gone out and publically said, "we need to use Sam tactics" (not in those words, but you get the idea).

Every single team in the Premier League uses long ball tactics, where the defenders are instructed to hoof it clear or get it up to the striker straight away, rather than keep possession on the ground in their own area. To be fair, they don't use it as frequently as we do, but they still use it.

Coming out with statements like "our football belongs in the Conference" is completely false and incorrect. I've made this point before and that is the fact that it's harder for most players to play football in the air, as compared to on the ground. It takes good strong, physical players to be able to compete in the air, who can not only outmuscle and outjump the opposition, but also have the necessary bravery and anticipation to get on the end of the ball and send it in the right direction. If we have players that can achieve that to a certain degree and can take advantage of other teams who are less capable of competing in the air then we should do this as often as possible, and we do, and we get goals from it.

Against a team like Stoke though, it was a foolish tactic that obviously wasn't working. It was surprising that we still employed direct tactics against Stoke, since we had swapped M Diouf for Kalinic and I expected our game plan to employ through balls for M Diouf to run onto, rather than try and lump it to him in the air.

People who believe we play bad football in every match under Sam are just plain wrong in my eyes because I have enjoyed many games we played, including our game against Arsenal that we unfortunately lost and if people are looking at those sort of games and still saying they were bored, then I'm not really sure what you're doing watching football. If you disagree with me, then just look back at the World Cup threads where people were complaining about boring football, clearly it's not just Sam that employs boring tactics, but the vast majority of managers worldwide. Even Brazil was being accused of boring, unattractive football.

[tony gale's mic]

Why are you incapable of posting without being offensive to other posters? You are a main reason why this forum is going to the dogs. Grow up man.

:lol: Crikey, that's me told. Since he called me "deluded" I would've thought what I wrote was a fairly proportionate response. Who gave you moderating duties?

[hi-jaq]

Yeah fair enough, my saying our style of belongs in the confrence was perhaps a tad OTT!!!

I never said it was boring though, I said it was frustrating, which it is!!!

As far as my knowlege of football goes, just because I dont spend my life sat on this forum stalking other users, doesn't mean to say I know nothing. I don't need to explain myself to anybody, but I play at a fairly decent level & I have for quite a few years, I have managed a team too. I am considering either taking some coaching badges or going into refereeing, and I've been transfixed to anything football since I can remember, so I'm inclined to disagree with your thoughts on my knowledge of football, although I do sometimes make rash comments, as I suppose everybody does. Sorry about that like!!!

[Hughesy]

Wasn't Warnock sold to cover the cost of Salgado's wages? A move that Sam pushed for despite the board telling him the wage budget was at its max?

Pretty sure this was mentioned by JW in the state of the finances article in the LT.

Warnock was sold (£7m), Chimbonda (£2m) to cover the £5m wage reduction the board had demanded.

[Smithy]

Warnock was sold (£7m), Chimbonda (£2m) to cover the £5m wage reduction the board had demanded.

Which we were then told had not been achieved, but has been this summer.

[MeanGreenMachine]

Quite amazing people are defending our style of play… I understand the need to mix it up and play direct at times, but when its clearly not working there is no plan b. Even the direct stuff is so predictable, lump it in the box and hope one of our big lads get on the end of it. The two goals we have scored in the league this season which hasn’t either been a cock up or a foul are Fonzi's against Brum, a header from a corner, and Dioufs against Arsenal which was a goal made by decent football. I think its naïve of people to think all will be rosey by carrying on playing like this, because without the goals from goalkeeping cock ups or ogs we would be sat on 2 points.

[hi-jaq]

Quite amazing people are defending our style of play… I understand the need to mix it up and play direct at times, but when its clearly not working there is no plan b. Even the direct stuff is so predictable, lump it in the box and hope one of our big lads get on the end of it. The two goals we have scored in the league this season which hasn’t either been a cock up or a foul are Fonzi's against Brum, a header from a corner, and Dioufs against Arsenal which was a goal made by decent football. I think its naïve of people to think all will be rosey by carrying on playing like this, because without the goals from goalkeeping cock ups or ogs we would be sat on 2 points.

Thats what I find so disappointing, the fact that Sam see's our main chances of scoring goals are from opposition mistakes or own goals. It's interesting to see that we would only be on 2 points if it wasn't for those mistakes & quite scary really!!!

[Yorick]

There would be thousands of managers around the world who would be interested. Personally with the abc criteria you set out, I wouldn't mind Kevin Gallacher being on the shortlist.

Nothing is guaranteed in football but he is a) Available, Cheap and C) Has experience with BRFC in a number of capacities.

Just a suggestion.

Unbelievable. Replace a manager of long standing with an ex player of no experience. No doubt if Hendry, Sutton and Shearer hadn't failed so miserably you'd be leading a hue and cry for them to be manager. Tell me were you one of the ones who wanted Shearer when Hughes left? He refused us remember. I'd expect Gally to do the same.

Have you checked on Gallaghers coaching qualifications presty?

[Dan]

Quite amazing people are defending our style of play… I understand the need to mix it up and play direct at times, but when its clearly not working there is no plan b. Even the direct stuff is so predictable, lump it in the box and hope one of our big lads get on the end of it. The two goals we have scored in the league this season which hasn’t either been a cock up or a foul are Fonzi's against Brum, a header from a corner, and Dioufs against Arsenal which was a goal made by decent football. I think its naïve of people to think all will be rosey by carrying on playing like this, because without the goals from goalkeeping cock ups or ogs we would be sat on 2 points.

This is one of the points I've been trying to put across, we have been fortunate to have as many points as we have. We won't keep having these moments of luck and the plan A doesn't look very fruitful at the moment.

[Yorick]

He was only a suggestion. I think he has potential, ambition, and is a Rover.

No risk, no glory. Anything would up the situation of our current stale state of affairs.

Good thinking presty. Pertsonally I vote for a partnership of Mekky and Simon Garner!

As topman says now is not the time, it would be suicide.

If things change in the next month or so then it may be a consideration, personally if I had any say, I'd shore up the squad in January and wait for the summer.

More choice and more time to look at all the options without the pressure of relegation. Hopefully!.

Personally if I was Allardyce I'd be inclined to resign now and watch us relegated from a place in the sun. It would do his cv more good than staying.

[Miker]

Saying we were lucky to get 2 goals and would be worse off if we hadn't is a flawed argument to make.

You can quite easily make the argument that we were unlucky not to score in other games, both this season and last, and couldve been higher up the table.

What we can fairly say though is that our performances this season merit the point tally we currenty have.

[LeChuck]

My main problem with the complaints on here is that people seem to believe Sam wants us to play like we did against Stoke. I don't believe that to be true for a second, he kept pointing to a game last season where we'd played well (Villa I think?) as the standard he was aiming for. He wouldn't be able to attract good players and have the likes of Salgado vouching for him if that's how he deliberately set up teams.

If you look at the first 20-25 minutes against Stoke, we were passing it forward from the back and moving the ball out wide. Then Stoke got on top, we misplaced a few simple passes and the players resorted to hoofing it aimlessly.

Of course, having the confidence to keep playing football and not resort to hoofing all the time is 100% Sam's responsibility, so he takes the blame. He needs to sort it out because it's not acceptable.

[den]

My main problem with the complaints on here is that people seem to believe Sam wants us to play like we did against Stoke. I don't believe that to be true for a second, he kept pointing to a game last season where we'd played well (Villa I think?) as the standard he was aiming for. He wouldn't be able to attract good players and have the likes of Salgado vouching for him if that's how he deliberately set up teams.

If you look at the first 20-25 minutes against Stoke, we were passing it forward from the back and moving the ball out wide. Then Stoke got on top, we misplaced a few simple passes and the players resorted to hoofing it aimlessly.

Of course, having the confidence to keep playing football and not resort to hoofing all the time is 100% Sam's responsibility, so he takes the blame. He needs to sort it out because it's not acceptable.

Spot on LeChuck.

It all comes back to the players. Lack of technique results in poor football. Technically good Players like Bellamy, Tugay, Jansen, Berg, Le Saux, Cowans, Batty etc, etc would never have been "kick it up in the air" merchants - no matter who the manager was. Ditto, no manager would want those players to play any other way than they do.

[ABBEY]

Right been thinking about this...if we don't get sold I'd go for the accy manager ..john colomun (spelling ) .proven miracle worker on a shoestring budget,entertaing football beliefs,top fella who always has time for a chat at the DW gym.

[DanLad]

Right been thinking about this...if we don't get sold I'd go for the accy manager ..john colomun (spelling ) .proven miracle worker on a shoestring budget,entertaing football beliefs,top fella who always has time for a chat at the DW gym.

Stanley played some lovely stuff on Sat'day.

Not sure about Coley as manager of Rovers, though!

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Right been thinking about this...if we don't get sold I'd go for the accy manager ..john colomun (spelling ) .proven miracle worker on a shoestring budget,entertaing football beliefs,top fella who always has time for a chat at the DW gym.

Thats actually not a bad shout. I'd hate him to leave Stanley but he's done an amazing job and deserves a pop at a decent League 1 or maybe even a Championship club.

It's Coleman btw, like the mustard.

[jodrell]

Right been thinking about this...if we don't get sold I'd go for the accy manager ..john colomun (spelling ) .proven miracle worker on a shoestring budget,entertaing football beliefs,top fella who always has time for a chat at the DW gym.

Have we not been down this road before with that guy just before Big SAM? IMO it would be a massive gamble. If I remember he just avoided relegation a couple of times in his first couple of seasons in that league.I have nothing against him by the way, just the safety of BRFC.