[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[MarkBRFC71]

It's known on the internet as 'trolling'. Not usually something that's admired to be honest. Any half-wit can wind people up by throwing out stupid opinions, and they usually do because that's the best they can offer.

That explains one particular individual's posts in the Election thread then. Cheers!

[jim mk2]

It's known on the internet as 'trolling'. Not usually something that's admired to be honest. Any half-wit can wind people up by throwing out stupid opinions, and they usually do because that's the best they can offer.

A good example below.

The first half against Arsenal proved that the players CAN play football - we essentially matched the best footballing team this side of the Nou Camp. The players are being told to play a certain way by the manager, and it's shackling any ability they might have to play differently. However, apart from that it's been as dull as ditchwater to watch.

[MarkBRFC71]

A good example below.

Instead of trying to be clever and failing dismally - once again - why don't you post something constructive for a change?

You and others with your attitude are the reason this messageboard has gone way downhill recently.

[Amo]

A good example below.

That's far from trolling, Jim. You're just looking to point-score, mate.

Mark isn't the only one of the belief that this team can mix it up, when their shackles are loose.

[92er]

If iamaover proves to be correct in the takover postings, the question about Allardyce won't be whether should be sacked or not, but whether he is doing as well as he should be doing.

[Miker]

Some interesting stats on here: http://www.soccerstats.com/team.asp?league=england&teamid=4

-The vast majority of our conceded goals have come right after the break, specifically between the 45th-60th minutes.

-We have never gone into half time with our opponent's leading the game

-We have scored in every game at Home so far

-But, we have been unable to keep a clean sheet in any of the away games

Suggests to me that our defence breaks down in the second half right after the restart, especially away from home. I'd be intrigued to find out if changing to the opposing fans' end has any effect on this statistic.

[thenodrog]

-The vast majority of our conceded goals have come right after the break, specifically between the 45th-60th minutes.

-We have never gone into half time with our opponent's leading the game

-We have scored in every game at Home so far

-But, we have been unable to keep a clean sheet in any of the away games

Suggests to me that our defence breaks down in the second half right after the restart, especially away from home. I'd be intrigued to find out if changing to the opposing fans' end has any effect on this statistic.

Suggests to me that opposing managers to their credit rather than our detriment suss out our weaknesses at half time and alter formation/tactics/players accordingly. It's not too difficult really cos as soon as we score we sit back and try to catch them on the break. We did the same under Mark Hughes too. As we have been in front we obviously stay the same and only change once the opposition have scored.

Very difficult to react to what the opposition will do until they've done it and folly to try to second guess, anticipate and counteract their changes first. Possibly the manager should see how the opposition have changed and react quicker but if he did that and the opposition then scored he'd cop it from the supporters for changing things around when we were in front. It's a heads I lose, tails you win situation.

[John]

Spot on LeChuck.

It all comes back to the players. Lack of technique results in poor football. Technically good Players like Bellamy, Tugay, Jansen, Berg, Le Saux, Cowans, Batty etc, etc would never have been "kick it up in the air" merchants - no matter who the manager was. Ditto, no manager would want those players to play any other way than they do.

Techinically if you go through the players our squad is very average IMO.

When a team presses us we really struggle with any creativity and you can bet we won't be able to put many passes together. I think some fans underestimate how poor our midfield in particular is - we have some young prospects but really do lack quality.

Not going to go through everyone, however in relation to passing the football:

Emerton – I do think he serves a purpose in the side/squad, and can run sideways with the ball but when it comes to passing he is poor

Dunn – played more as a second striker in recent times, passing is good but tries the extravagant sometimes which leads to mistrayed passes

Andrews – poor passer of the ball

Grella – when fit occasionally sprays the ball long range about OK IMO, however as he is always injured

Diouf – have thought about it and not sure however probably one of our better passers

Its not just about passing though as having good movement can create space - certainly having a pacey striker might help.

[Guest Walkerite]

Apart from "Keef" our players our good enough to pass the ball around. Look at Blackpool,they are having a go and at the moment it is paying off for them. Our players on paper stand head and shoulders above theirs so that would suggest if we had a go at playing in "the correct way" we would do just fine. In my opinion Big Sam is just sticking to his stubborn old guns just like a certain Mr Wenger does.

[Amo]

Apart from "Keef" our players our good enough to pass the ball around. Look at Blackpool,they are having a go and at the moment it is paying off for them. Our players on paper stand head and shoulders above theirs so that would suggest if we had a go at playing in "the correct way" we would do just fine. In my opinion Big Sam is just sticking to his stubborn old guns just like a certain Mr Wenger does.

I applaud Blackpool for their efforts, and long may they continue, but they're still an unknown quantity (as were WBA, Burnley, Hull etc). Sooner or later their quality will tell and they won't be able to maintain their tempo of football. Most of us aren't asking for the beautiful game, we just want to see some variety in our play instead of this one-dimensional dross Sam has us playing.

There's no excuse for PL footballers being paid six-figure sums not being able to mix it about. You really think hoofball is all this team is capable of? We played well towards the end of last season and it coincided with an upturn in form. Sam is too afraid to let off the shackles, either because he's stubborn or he doesn't have enough faith in his players. Probably a bit of both.

[Guest Walkerite]

I applaud Blackpool for their efforts, and long may they continue, but they're still an unknown quantity (as were WBA, Burnley, Hull etc). Sooner or later their quality will tell and they won't be able to maintain their tempo of football. Most of us aren't asking for the beautiful game, we just want to see some variety in our play instead of this one-dimensional dross Sam has us playing.

There's no excuse for PL footballers being paid six-figure sums not being able to mix it about. You really think hoofball is all this team is capable of? We played well towards the end of last season and it coincided with an upturn in form. Sam is too afraid to let off the shackles, either because he's stubborn or he doesn't have enough faith in his players. Probably a bit of both.

I know that we play some good football at times but Sam is being far too stuborn at the moment with his tactics. We know and Sam knows that we're better than the type of football we have been playing recently. I wouldn't be suprised if it knocks some of the players confidince. Imagine that your manager doesn't have faith in you to get the job done,by getting the ball down and playing football,that must be a "kick in the balls"

[den]

There's no excuse for PL footballers being paid six-figure sums not being able to mix it about. You really think hoofball is all this team is capable of? We played well towards the end of last season and it coincided with an upturn in form. Sam is too afraid to let off the shackles, either because he's stubborn or he doesn't have enough faith in his players. Probably a bit of both.

Topman, name the Rovers players who are of real, premier league, technical quality - anywhere in our squad - and are able to out pass the opponents? Remember, there's no point relying heavily on the passing game, unless you are better than your opponents at it, otherwise you're going to lose.

Don't get me wrong, I'm an advocate of football being played with pace and along the ground. I don't particulary agree with you when you say, or you used to say, that we do nothing else, except hoof it upfield. We do both IMO, but we have to be realistic, we don't have the pass and move players, that a lot of other teams have.

You know, if you try to play too much against teams with far superior footballers, you'll get beat. It's all about balance - and a big change from the balance we have now could only harm results in my opinion. If you want us to play a much more fluent passing game, we need better players.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Topman, name the Rovers players who are of real, premier league, technical quality - anywhere in our squad - and are able to out pass the opponents? Remember, there's no point relying heavily on the passing game, unless you are better than your opponents at it, otherwise you're going to lose.

We're a mid-table team, so on average we're not going to be better than half of the teams. Plus, Blackpool are managing to win games by passing despite being clearly not as technically adept as the teams they have played.

Off the top of my head I would say that all the defence, when allowed, can pass or run the ball out of defence. In midfield, Olssen, MGP, Dunn, Emerton, Diouf are all average PL std. Not too sure about the forwards but they need to be running onto the passes.

[den]

Off the top of my head I would say that all the defence, when allowed, can pass or run the ball out of defence. In midfield, Olssen, MGP, Dunn, Emerton, Diouf are all average PL std. Not too sure about the forwards but they need to be running onto the passes.

Nelsen and Samba aren't great passers of the ball. Givet is terrible. As for midfield, we play better when Dunn is fit, but he never is. If we went into a game with a midfield of MGP, Olssen, Emerton and Diouf with the intentions of out passing the opposition, we would get murdered, in my opinion.

[Amo]

Keep up, Den. The 'balance' you're talking about is exactly the point I'm making. I've said all along that we can play the direct game, so long as we mix it about, especially when Plan A isn't working. Pedersen, Emerton, Dunn, Grella, Diouf, Salgado, they all have proven ability on the ball, and the younger players aren't going to improve their technique when we play hoofball. Like I said, our football improved towards the end of last season and we got some decent results. Now we're back to playing the same old crap we've seen before.

[den]

Keep up, Den. The 'balance' you're talking about is exactly the point I'm making. I've said all along that we can play the direct game, so long as we mix it about, especially when Plan A isn't working. Pedersen, Emerton, Dunn, Grella, Diouf, Salgado, they all have proven ability on the ball, and the younger players aren't going to improve their technique when we play hoofball. Like I said, our football improved towards the end of last season and we got some decent results. Now we're back to playing the same old crap we've seen before.

I think you are seeing what you want to see Topman. You think when we win it's because of the players playing more football - and when we lose it's because Sam is telling them to hoof it. Did the football improve that much at the end of the season, or was it just the results that did?

You still haven't shown me the midfield that can outplay most PL sides - unless you think Pedersen, Emerton, Grella and Diouf could. They would get absolutely murdered.

IMO, the results at the moment outperform the football [credit to Allardyce there]. Move towards a less combative and more pass and move style of football - with this current squad and results would slip. We need to bring in better players first, then gradually move to a more technical game. In fact, once we have more players who have the technique to play the short, pass and move game, things would change automatically, whoever the manager is.

[joey_big_nose]

I think you are seeing what you want to see Topman. You think when we win it's because of the players playing more football - and when we lose it's because Sam is telling them to hoof it. Did the football improve that much at the end of the season, or was it just the results that did?

You still haven't shown me the midfield that can outplay most PL sides - unless you think Pedersen, Emerton, Grella and Diouf could. They would get absolutely murdered.

IMO, the results at the moment outperform the football [credit to Allardyce there]. Move towards a less combative and more pass and move style of football - with this current squad and results would slip. We need to bring in better players first, then gradually move to a more technical game. In fact, once we have more players who have the technique to play the short, pass and move game, things would change automatically, whoever the manager is.

I think it is legitimate to ask whether, if given money, Sam will go after more technical players. I'm on the fence on this. He has bought quality creaters before - Okacha and Djokaeff are examples. However his aim over the summer was to bring in a better quality of striker and the two that he has gone on record as saying he would like - Kenwyne Jones and Peter Crouch - do not indicate that a change in style is really that likely.

The interest in Popov was encouraging as he does look a player, but there seems no real desire from Sam to bring in technically gifted passers into the deeper central midfield. One such player would make a massive difference.

Also I would agree with Topman that we did play a better brand of football toward the end of last season. We have gone backwards on that front no doubt IMO. Although perhaps that is more to do with Dunn's injury and Nzonzi's shocking form than Sam intentionally pushing for hoofing it.

One things for sure we do need to try something different. We have got no change out of direct tactics against Fulham and Stoke who are two solid mid table teams we need to compete against. A plan B is an absolute priority.

[John]

I think it is legitimate to ask whether, if given money, Sam will go after more technical players. I'm on the fence on this. He has bought quality creaters before - Okacha and Djokaeff are examples. However his aim over the summer was to bring in a better quality of striker and the two that he has gone on record as saying he would like - Kenwyne Jones and Peter Crouch - do not indicate that a change in style is really that likely.

The interest in Popov was encouraging as he does look a player, but there seems no real desire from Sam to bring in technically gifted passers into the deeper central midfield. One such player would make a massive difference.

Also I would agree with Topman that we did play a better brand of football toward the end of last season. We have gone backwards on that front no doubt IMO. Although perhaps that is more to do with Dunn's injury and Nzonzi's shocking form than Sam intentionally pushing for hoofing it.

One things for sure we do need to try something different. We have got no change out of direct tactics against Fulham and Stoke who are two solid mid table teams we need to compete against. A plan B is an absolute priority.

Guti is not bad technically and would probably be our best passer, if he'd joined?

[den]

I think it is legitimate to ask whether, if given money, Sam will go after more technical players. I'm on the fence on this.

I'm not convinced Sam can change his style either, Do we give him the chance? The answer would have to be yes, I suppose. Hopefully we'll get new owners who could ride that if need be.

[Amo]

I don't know, Den. You're not really paying attention to what I'm saying and making up points to suit your own argument. "Less combative"... "move towards a passing game"... I've never even suggested anything like that. Sam can play the long game, but the team must be willing to put their foot on the ball when the situation calls for it, instead of lumping it downfield, almost compulsively. I defy anyone to say these professional, PL footballers aren't capable of doing that. We've seen it with our own eyes!

[den]

I don't know, Den. You're not really paying attention to what I'm saying and making up points to suit your own argument. "Less combative"... "move towards a passing game"... I've never even suggested anything like that. Sam can play the long game, but the team must be willing to put their foot on the ball when the situation calls for it, instead of lumping it downfield, almost compulsively. I defy anyone to say these professional, PL footballers aren't capable of doing that. We've seen it with our own eyes!

Yeah OK Topman, I'm probably getting the wrong end of the stick. I think you're saying that we can do better with the players we have, while I'm saying that to make any significant difference we need better players.

[John]

Sam speaking on Junior and our other youngsters

[den]

Sam speaking on Junior and our other youngsters

It's about time Sam realised that Niko's 23 in January.

[Majiball]

I've never know a player continue to develop by just training alone. You need to be challenged constantly and coming up against the same players day in day does not allow for that to happen after time.

The kids who played a big part in our great finish to last season should be back on the pitch now.

[Amo]

Apart from Jones, who's playing out of position anyway, which youngsters are actually coming through? Kalinic (not home-grown) is in and out of the team, same goes for Nzonzi (who's covering Grella), Olsson, and Hoilett. Hanley hasn't made an appearance yet either. None of them are pushing on from last season yet.

Get Hoillet in the team, imo. Give him the gametime and let's see how he develops. Rotting on the bench or in the lower leagues isn't going to be the making of him.