[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[sweet]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned here, is a reason why I think at times we seem to play the long ball so much.

As we are such a slow team attacking wise, teams are able to play higher defensive lines against us. This cuts out the amount of space we have to operate in (when in possesion), and teams are able to close us down alot more efficiantly as the space is more compact. As we are obviously not the most technically gifted of teams, our players panic as there isn't usually a player in good space to pass too and we are being pressed hard by the opposition. This leads to looking for the easy option most times and just going for the long ball to avoid trouble.

I mentioned it in the Kalinic thread, but I really think if we could sort out the pace of the team, our game would really change, as teams would be forced to operate more deeper, granting our team more time and space on the ball. Therefore the long ball tactic would be used more sparingly.

[ABBEY]

The only reason we play long ball,sweets, is that its the ONLY way zzzam knows

[DanLad]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned here, is a reason why I think at times we seem to play the long ball so much.

As we are such a slow team attacking wise, teams are able to play higher defensive lines against us. This cuts out the amount of space we have to operate in (when in possesion), and teams are able to close us down alot more efficiantly as the space is more compact. As we are obviously not the most technically gifted of teams, our players panic as there isn't usually a player in good space to pass too and we are being pressed hard by the opposition. This leads to looking for the easy option most times and just going for the long ball to avoid trouble.

I mentioned it in the Kalinic thread, but I really think if we could sort out the pace of the team, our game would really change, as teams would be forced to operate more deeper, granting our team more time and space on the ball. Therefore the long ball tactic would be used more sparingly.

Our lack of pace does result in tight, compact midfield play. I think Sam quite likes it like that, though?

I'd love to see more pace in the side, but the squad has very little.

I'd have liked to see new Diouff on instead of Benjani yesterday, or even a new Diouff start, to spread play and make defences think twice about squeezing up.

[Dan]

What do you suggest? do you really think that if we take a short throw we are going to pass it around and get it into the box? 9/10 we will lose possesion before we get it into the oppositions box, at least with the throwing we get it into the box. I can see the logic in the long throw.

Well, the long throw hasn't proven to be a success, but we do have players that can on occasion cross the ball well. Get it to Diouf, Pedersen or Salgado and cross it into the box first time.

I'm not against long throws, but Pedersen's are too loopy and slow to cause much of a problem to the other team. The opposition defenders deal with it far too easily. We can try it now and then, but as with most of our play, we are far too predictable.

I worry that we are not creating much, we are relying on luck or errors most of the time. If we don't start scoring goals soon we are in big big trouble. Drawing at home against mid table sides isn't really good enough. If we are to stay in this league, then our home form is what is going to be key. Our away form has been pretty awful and there aren't any easy away matches this season.

I am struggling to think of a team in this league we'd beat easily at the moment. As much as I have come across a pessimist this season, I'm not one! Well usually not, but this season I don't feel confident of winning matches anymore. I'm dreading match day, very much like I did in the Ince and rubber dingy Kidd days.

No matter what the Pro Sam brigade say, Sam is a very limited manager. He worked miracles at Bolton, using the same style he tries to get us playing. The only problem is, we don't have the players for it. We don't have a target man. If we did, the long ball would probably work, he'd bring the midfield into play. At the moment the long ball comes straight back and isn't effective. It might work better with two upfront however. When Niko does win the ball, there isn't anyone there and he isn't good enough(not suited as a target man?) to hold it up long enough

[sweet]

Our lack of pace does result in tight, compact midfield play. I think Sam quite likes it like that, though?

I'd love to see more pace in the side, but the squad has very little.

I'd have liked to see new Diouff on instead of Benjani yesterday, or even a new Diouff start, to spread play and make defences think twice about squeezing up.

The problem is though, with tight compact midfield play, you need technically gifted midfielders playing in the middle. The only option we have is Dunn, and he prefers to run at players rather than pass around the opposition. In a compact midfield Dunn will struggle to beat good defence minded midfields and either lose possesion or get fouled.

At bolton Sam had the luxury of technically gifted central midfielders in Okocha, Campo, Djarkaeff and to a lesser extent the extremly on form Nolan. This is partly the reason it succeded so well and they didnt have to rely on pace so much (although the signing of anelka made them almost unplayable), the other being back then teams usually played a 4-4-2, so bolton were able to use the spare midfield man to their advantage. A luxury we do not have.

[waggy]

we will never meet liverpool in such a lowly position in the league for years to come,if little blackpool can go to liverpoo and win surely we can,forget the negative stuff and go for it!!!or are blackpool a better team than us?

[Dan]

we will never meet liverpool in such a lowly position in the league for years to come,if little blackpool can go to liverpoo and win surely we can,forget the negative stuff and go for it!!!or are blackpool a better team than us?

I think at the moment there aren't many worse teams than us at the moment! In the past we've out played our potential, these days we are playing well under it!

Still, things can change very quickly in football, so who knows?!

[unluckymorton]

we will never meet liverpool in such a lowly position in the league for years to come,if little blackpool can go to liverpoo and win surely we can,forget the negative stuff and go for it!!!or are blackpool a better team than us?

It seems you've got the dingle mentality wag. Football just isn't as simple as that.

[Amo]

Waggy, the problem is that Sam doesn't see his style as negative. He resents that accusation, and would boast that his style is actually, and I quote, "winning football". Even if we're playing to percentages and it looks awful, Sam firmly believes that is our best chance in this league.

[Fife Rover]

Thats cos I'm usually too busy ignoring you and your attempts to goad.

Set point to Theno, and it's DG serving to save the first set...........

[92er]

or are blackpool a better team than us?

We have already beaten them Waggy!

[broadsword]

Waggy, the problem is that Sam doesn't see his style as negative

Sam has a style?

[thenodrog]

when is lard@rses contract up

About 9 months before we kick off the season in the Championship.

The only reason we play long ball,sweets, is that its the ONLY way zzzam knows

Abbey you really need to stop thinking 'long ball' or 'hoof ball' and think 'quick attacking football'. Can you think of a quicker way to move from one end of a pitch to the other?

[RIML]

Long-pass percentage.

This has been mentioned before but I thought it was interesting to know the other teams with the highest long-pass percentage rate. Just a 3% difference between us and Bolton.

Blackburn 22%

Stoke City 20%

Birmingham 20%

Bolton 19%

[den]

Long-pass percentage.

This has been mentioned before but I thought it was interesting to know the other teams with the highest long-pass percentage rate. Just a 3% difference between us and Bolton.

Blackburn 22%

Stoke City 20%

Birmingham 20%

Bolton 19%

How long, is a long pass? What's the difference between a long pass and a clearance?

[thenodrog]

How long, is a long pass? What's the difference between a long pass and a clearance?

A target.

[LeChuck]

A target.

Very succinct.

It's much harder to differentiate between a long ball and a long pass though. i.e. a Samba punt towards Kalinic, or a Beckham 50 yard cross field pass to the shoelaces of the receiver.

[thenodrog]

Very succinct.

It's much harder to differentiate between a long ball and a long pass though. i.e. a Samba punt towards Kalinic, or a Beckham 50 yard cross field pass to the shoelaces of the receiver.

great right foot but the most one trick pony that I can recall in the Prem. Beckham literally brought nothing else other than a goor work ethic to the party. He was important at MU but he'd be awful in a poor team. Would you swap Samba for Beckham right now? I wouldn't.

[dave birch]

Very succinct.

It's much harder to differentiate between a long ball and a long pass though. i.e. a Samba punt towards Kalinic, or a Beckham 50 yard cross field pass to the shoelaces of the receiver.

LeC, you haven't watched some of the LFC teams of the 70's.

Great 50 yard passes onto the toes of the player running the wings.

Got to admit I loved that. getting a pass without having to break step.

Made Craig Johnston, nothing but a runner, but could control a ball.

[den]

Do they have to be completed passes to count? How do they know what the kicker intended?

[thenodrog]

LeC, you haven't watched some of the LFC teams of the 70's.

Great 50 yard passes onto the toes of the player running the wings.

Got to admit I loved that. getting a pass without having to break step.

Made Craig Johnston, nothing but a runner, but could control a ball.

Glenn Hoddle was the finest passer of a ball that I have seen. He knew where his teammates were without looking up. He made Beckham look like Keith Andrews.

[dave birch]

Den, you know that didn't count in the 70's.

The game wasn't pulled apart the way it is now.

We just got on with enjoying when we won, being ###### off when we lost, and looking forward to the next game when we woke up on Sunday

[mjs]

Even if we're playing to percentages and it looks awful, Sam firmly believes that is our best chance in this league.

Then we should be worried because all it does is give the opposition the ball back. It also creates very few chances and when it does we haven't got anyone to put them away. And we are not that good at stopping the opposition from scoring either.

Still, it's cracking entertainment value.

[ABBEY]

About 9 months before we kick off the season in the Championship.

Abbey you really need to stop thinking 'long ball' or 'hoof ball' and think 'quick attacking football'. Can you think of a quicker way to move from one end of a pitch to the other?

its as much attacking football as im a gongleoid from the planet drog!

Long-pass percentage.

This has been mentioned before but I thought it was interesting to know the other teams with the highest long-pass percentage rate. Just a 3% difference between us and Bolton.

Blackburn 22%

Stoke City 20%

Birmingham 20%

Bolton 19%

i will give you a clue..pass is when it goes from one of your players to another of your players!!!

on monday before samba got sent off he "passed" the ball up the pitch to a sunderland player 10 times in a row... i was that bored i counted.

according to opta ,we have the worst pass % completion in the top two divisions.

How long, is a long pass? What's the difference between a long pass and a clearance?

hoofing hell den lol

LeC, you haven't watched some of the LFC teams of the 70's.

Great 50 yard passes onto the toes of the player running the wings.

Got to admit I loved that. getting a pass without having to break step.

Made Craig Johnston, nothing but a runner, but could control a ball.

on to toes dave...not aimless hit and hope we get lucky!! huge difference.

[dave birch]

on to toes dave...not aimless hit and hope we get lucky!! huge difference.

Jeez abs, it wasn't 100% every ball!