[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[beerwins]

Its a tough point to argue, where we bad in the first half at Anfield becasue we sat back and allowed them to come at us or was it because they started brightly? The second half our football changed and we were better, was it because they stood off us because they were one up or was it a change of tactics?

One thing from the Brum match still sits in my head, Pederson late on gets a free kick just outside the area and all the big guns go up apart from Olsson who makes a run off the ball in a great position, Pederson completely ignored him as did the Brum defence as they knew where the ball was going and as it drifted in was cleared with ease.

The point I am trying to make is that we have become all to predictable this season, Would Olsson have scored? would Pederson, had he decided to try something different? Who knows, but teams have become all too familiar with our gameplan and refs are jumping on us now every time a ball is launched near the keeper, without some variation to our game and more attacking gameplay we are going to be in big trouble, the league is very tight this year and there are going to be plenty of teams in around the danger area come January.

I have nothing against Sam as a manager I think he is one of the managers who can be relied upon to get results, even though I cant stand the way we play football and I hate the way he blames the players. Last year we did ok but this year we have been totally rubbish and got results through luck, yes the players must share some portion of the blame but im afraid the tactics are the main downfall at the moment and i'm hoping we see some improvement and fast.

[beerwins]

He's not the one doing the playing. Can anyone actually confirm how much instructions Sam barks at the players from the sidelines? He can tell the players to hoof the ball clear in dangerous situations, but there's no way he's telling them to pass it around on the ground for a bit and then kick it back to the keeper to hoof it in. If someone is actually aware of Sam instructing this, then I'll stand corrected.

You are missing the point that is exactly what the players are trained to do, he does'nt need to stand there barking orders its drilled into them to play this way.

I posted this before but incase you didnt read it, I watched an after match interview with Kevin Nolan after Bolton had just won through a long range screamer score by Nolan, the commentator asked if he was happy with the goal and he said he was but the gaffer (Sam) said that he was lucky it went in, upon further chatting he said that the boss wants every ball around the edge of the area to be put out to the wings because more goals are scored from crosses than they are from long shots.

He may well be right but if opposing teams know this tactic would'nt it be better to mix it up a bit, the same thing is happening to us, our tactics are to easy to predict and we arent mixing it at all.

[waggy]

the saving grace is that not many managers survive a takeover,but will it be the better of two evils

[Miker]

You are missing the point that is exactly what the players are trained to do, he does'nt need to stand there barking orders its drilled into them to play this way.

I posted this before but incase you didnt read it, I watched an after match interview with Kevin Nolan after Bolton had just won through a long range screamer score by Nolan, the commentator asked if he was happy with the goal and he said he was but the gaffer (Sam) said that he was lucky it went in, upon further chatting he said that the boss wants every ball around the edge of the area to be put out to the wings because more goals are scored from crosses than they are from long shots.

He may well be right but if opposing teams know this tactic would'nt it be better to mix it up a bit, the same thing is happening to us, our tactics are to easy to predict and we arent mixing it at all.

And that's fine, but how many times do players decide to be clever and just blast the ball completely over the net when a better choice would've been to lay it off to someone? The manager should tactically set up his team to try and get the best results from the play, but the players should still try to ocassionally do their own thing if they see a good opportunity for it.

I'm not disputing the fact that Sam tells the team to play a certain way, but some of the stuff the players do seems completely bizarre and I just can't believe the manager would ever encourage it. The fact that Sam came down to the touchline early against Liverpool and started shouting orders, whereby we changed our style of play, suggests that it's not just him that the play is down to. Sam doesn't ALWAYS change his tactics at half-time, but he has done it quite a number of times with us so far.

All I know is that if a player has the ball he needs to pass it to his teammate with accuracy, whether short or long. What I have been seeing is just absolutely shocking, wayward passes from our players, even on the ground they are sometimes pretty poor. Sam needs to address the issues in the team that's for sure though.

[den]

Of course we pass it at times, that's why most of us get frustrated when we see it happen and soon after the team resorts back to aimless punting. Sam doesn't know any other way to play, he did it at Bolton, Newcastle and now here.

Yes, I remember Sam ruining Anelka and Davies. How he ruined those two, with head high balls and being left isolated and with 4 defenders to beat, eh? How Anelka scored 21 goals for Bolton I'll never know. Jay Jay Okacha was terrible at Bolton too, as a midfielder he couldn't get involved in the games because of the constant barrage of high balls sailing over his head.

There is a point continually missed by the anti Sam brigade, to play good football you must have good footballers, otherwise it doesn't work. Still waiting for the names of our players who could take on the rest of the PL and beat 'em at a purely pass and move game. Of course this argument falls flat when we people with the view that we never pass the ball. IMO, we do pass the ball, but be careful, too much fancy stuff from this group of players would take us back to the sort of displays we saw under Ince.

Having said that, I've always said there's a lot of room for improvement, but really using Sam's reputation as the main reason for the lack of quality football is toying with the frills and ignoring the real cause - lack of good, technical players. Sign better players, particularly in midfield, and we will see the improvement then.

[John]

The end of last season was good.

Most managers would preferably strengthen their squads in the summer and we had basically no money. If you don’t add quality and those clubs about you do, or even just freshen things up then surprisingly, it is possible to regress…..

I also think missing our most creative player and probably our best player (and goal scorer) in Dunn has something to do with our “indifferent” start to the season. I know that with him being injured is not exactly a shock however he can make a difference when playing – the league is very tight however no need to get into too much of a hissy fit yet. I think it could be a rocky ride for us but that it not a surprise given the playing staff we have.

Also Bucky on your point, I don’t care about the wage bill we have, our players are technically very poor. It seems I am in the minority on that one however I don’t blame the manager for playing the way we do, even though like any team, improvements could be made – when another team presses us we really struggle to put any passes together. Good players would take it amongst themselves to play it along the deck every so often or create some magic/decent play out of nothing.

Overall, suppose what I am trying to say is, changing our style of play would have minimal impact on attaining positive results on the pitch, IMO.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Still waiting for the names of our players who could take on the rest of the PL and beat 'em at a purely pass and move game.

You ridicule posters claiming they think we play pure hoofball yet you demand to know who could beat everyone playing pure pass and move. All anyone is saying is that the balance could be improved for the betterment of reults.

BTW, I don't beloieve that the only difference beween the form at the end of last season and the start of this is thast everyone else has improved.

The manager has consigned Roberts to the stands, not played Olssen out wide, brought back Emo, all to the detriment of our ability to play well and win points.

[broadsword]

What is the situation with Roberts now?

Has he been given a squad number?

[John]

Sam seemed to suggest after the Liverpool match that Roberts was still injured (he went through the players we were missing for the game and mentioned Roberts too).

[den]

BTW, I don't beloieve that the only difference beween the form at the end of last season and the start of this is thast everyone else has improved.

I don't believe that either EIT. Of course he makes mistakes. I very rarely read anyone crediting him with anything though. Apparently this seasons poor form is all down to Allardyce changing our style of play though.

[DaveyB]

It's all very well saying that we don't have the players to play a better style of football and that we should play to our strengths, but the question I have is do we actually play to our strengths?

We have one real aerial threat who plays at centreback, coupled with a striker who looks reasonable with the ball at his feet but terriblly out of his depth when asked to hold the ball up against a strong centreback - why then is it playing to our strengths to knock the ball long and high to him?

If we had someone like Kevin Davies, Andy Carroll or Carlton Cole up front then I could see the logic in playing this way, but the fact that we played this way when we had Benni up front and now continue to do so, despite the fact that Kalinic looks decidedly unsuited to it, tells me that it has more to do with this being what Sam wants rather than 'playing to our strengths'

[den]

We have one real aerial threat who plays at centreback, coupled with a striker who looks reasonable with the ball at his feet but terriblly out of his depth when asked to hold the ball up against a strong centreback - why then is it playing to our strengths to knock the ball long and high to him?

It isn't playing to our strengths. It isn't playing to the strengths of any striker. I'm trying to make the point that this is a myth, because everything isn't hit long and high, a view that goes much against a lot posters on here. Too much is hit long and high I agree, but that happens - IMO - more so when you don't have the technical quality of other sides. Get better players in and we'll find the quality improving.

It isn't all down to the manager. That doesn't seem to suit everyone though.

[broadsword]

Do Blackpool hit it long and high then, or do they have better players than us?

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Look at things from the new owners point of view.

You want to become the number one supported team in India. The current manager will not vary his tactics. You want to bring through top new talent, if they're under 6 ft will Allardyce play them? Will he play them out of position? You don't want to get relegated as your investment immediately nose dives.

If we were sat in the top 10 and producing some decent football then you may be tempted to stick with Sam.

It is highly likely that by the end of the weekend we will be bottom or second from bottom (Yes I know it's a tight league).

If I was buying a team in the bottom 3 I would seriously be questioning keeping the manager. IMO Sam will be very lucky if he survives the takeover, I also think he can have little argument as he knew how tight money was when he took the job. He also blew £6 mil on Kalinic who looks nowhere near delivering.

[den]

Do Blackpool hit it long and high then, or do they have better players than us?

Cheers Bry.

I think we nullified Blackpools front two and deservedly beat them, didn't we? Diouf was superb with his wing play.

[Amo]

Yes, I remember Sam ruining Anelka and Davies. How he ruined those two, with head high balls and being left isolated and with 4 defenders to beat, eh? How Anelka scored 21 goals for Bolton I'll never know. Jay Jay Okacha was terrible at Bolton too, as a midfielder he couldn't get involved in the games because of the constant barrage of high balls sailing over his head.

So you're trying to tell me Bolton didn't play a direct, percentage game? Yes or no will do, Den. No need for hyperbole and putting words in people's mouths this time.

The way you reminiscence about Bolton I wouldn't be surprised if you ARE Big Sam!

There is a point continually missed by the anti Sam brigade, to play good football you must have good footballers, otherwise it doesn't work. Still waiting for the names of our players who could take on the rest of the PL and beat 'em at a purely pass and move game.

This is getting boring. Most of us want Rovers to play the most effective football they can. That means playing it long when you have to and playing it short when you have to. How many more times should we say this? We don't want total football. We can't afford it. But can we play like a half-decent PL side? I should bloody well hope so!

Of course this argument falls flat when we people with the view that we never pass the ball. IMO, we do pass the ball, but be careful, too much fancy stuff from this group of players would take us back to the sort of displays we saw under Ince.

We do pass the ball, but in rare instances. Didn't our goal last week come from link-up play? And the one against Arsenal. Think how many goalscoring opportunities we're missing when we choose the hoofed option instead of building up an attack? No wonder we create naff all.

Also, using Ince as a point of reference is really scraping the barrel. Ince was clueless, full stop. A travesty of an appointment. I don't think it was the passing style of our game alone that contributed to the surrender football we played under his tenure.

[den]

We do pass the ball, but in rare instances.

Well there you go. That's what gets my back up. You are saying [despite trying to convince people otherwise] that we almost, always hoof it. What you want is a complete change in playing style - and in my opinion, with this squad, that's dangerous. Personally, I think we should change our set plays. I would much prefer Robbo to throw the ball out a bit more, Rovers to mix up the long throws with a few short throws and take a few short free kicks now and again. The rest of the time, in open play we do push it around quite a bit more than a lot of people think. Away from home we tend to use the long ball a little too much, but that's down to lack of quality in midfield - again, IMO.

Apologies for ignoring the rest of your post, but the quote above more or less sums up what I object to. We do pass it more than you think.

Oh - and apologies for going on for far too long. It wont be too long before Sam's gone anyway. 12 months max I think. Then we can start at the next man.

[Miker]

People, I was being serious. We miss Andrews. Our best performances last season was with him in the team. I think his pointing told the players where to go and where to pass the ball, now they're at a complete loss.

Where is he nowadays anyway?

[broadsword]

Injured, I think.

Not sure whether it's just his feelings, or something physical.

[SouthAussieRover]

Glenn/Mods:

Can we possibly have a new thread?

This thread seems to have become too large and, with the hidden posts, it's hard to find where I was last up to.

[thenodrog]

Do Blackpool hit it long and high then, or do they have better players than us?

Do you think Blackpool will stay up Bryan?

[ABBEY]

Glenn/Mods:

Can we possibly have a new thread?

This thread seems to have become too large and, with the hidden posts, it's hard to find where I was last up to.

do keep up its easy...sam plays negative hoof and football traditionlists/lovers hate it and how walrus head is and the lovers of lump it and up ,love him and believe the messiah is THE ONLY person on earth good enough for us....simples.

[S15]

do keep up its easy...sam plays negative hoof and football traditionlists/lovers hate it and how walrus head is and the lovers of lump it and up ,love him and believe the messiah is THE ONLY person on earth good enough for us....simples.

This post accurately sums up the calibre of argument coming from the 'Anti Sam' camp.

[ABBEY]

stilletto stop quoting me ,its great that way because i love ignoring you.

[beerwins]

This post accurately sums up the calibre of argument coming from the 'Anti Sam' camp.

Really? I would have thought that the perfomances this season were enough without even posting.