[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[tony gale's mic]

One of Sam's major faults in my opinion is that he doesn't seem to treat all games as being of equal importance and an opportunity to win three points. He seems to prioritise games into winnable and less winnable fixtures and treats them accordingly which in my view makes it far more likely you're going to get humiliated from time to time as we have just been at Old Trafford and to a lesser extent at White Hart Lane. That's simply not acceptable imo, you have to fight tooth and nail to get a result in EVERY game not just the "winnable" ones.

It's difficult to think the new owners will view Saturday's result with much enthusiasm. Is Sam doing a good job? We're so poor away from home I gave up bothering to travel to away games at the start of last season and now can't even be bothered wasting ninety minutes watching it in a Pub on foreign TV. That can't be good.

Also, approaching the half way point in the season we sit a point behind newly promoted sides West Brom and Blackpool (operating on a fraction of our budget in Blackpool's case) whilst both of those teams seem able to play attractive football and combine it with the same sort of results as ours at the same time.

So whilst we can all acknowledge that the previous owners left the squad dangerously bereft of quality,I don't think Sam is doing anywhere near as miraculous a job as he would have us believe. Is it too much to expect organisation and genuine determination and some ambition away from home? I'm still far from convinced he won't take us down this season.

So basically his main faults are how we play away from home against the big teams? You're placing such huge importance on how we play in five games out of 38 a season - five games which we will usually struggle to get many points from even with Mourinho as manager.

I don't argue that this isn't an issue, but I'd much rather we won the games we should be winning at home in front of our own fans, putting up good performances against top teams at home than slipping up regularly in these games and being humiliated at Ewood, even if it does mean the odd tonking away from home. Sure this is definitely something Sam should have addressed by now, but you're making out as if it should be a huge black mark on his record when in fact it's just a bit of a blot.

Our away form last season was pretty terrible, but this season has been a mixed bag. Won away at Newcastle and Blackpool, should have beaten Birmingham away - certainly played well enough to and got a very good draw at City of Manchester Stadium. On the other hand we had disappointing performances against Man U, Liverpool, Spurs and Stoke but three of those games we would have struggled to get any points from anyway. So really our away form is more or less par for the course, although for the whole game at Man Utd and the first half at Spurs we did get embarassed.

Is Sam doing a good job? Should you even ask that question? Of course he is. No one is saying he's a miracle worker but he's doing a very good job given the circumstances. Is there room for improvement and does Sam sometimes get it wrong? Of course he does.

There's people on here determined to criticise the manager, who have been against him from day one. The fact you can write a whole passage like that and even question whether he's done a good job at Rovers considering the last two years, what came before it and the circumstances he's worked in seem to put you very much in that camp.

[Gav]

So basically his main faults are how we play away from home against the big teams? You're placing such huge importance on how we play in five games out of 38 a season - five games which we will usually struggle to get many points from even with Mourinho as manager.

I don't argue that this isn't an issue, but I'd much rather we won the games we should be winning at home in front of our own fans, putting up good performances against top teams at home than slipping up regularly in these games and being humiliated at Ewood, even if it does mean the odd tonking away from home. Sure this is definitely something Sam should have addressed by now, but you're making out as if it should be a huge black mark on his record when in fact it's just a bit of a blot.

Our away form last season was pretty terrible, but this season has been a mixed bag. Won away at Newcastle and Blackpool, should have beaten Birmingham away - certainly played well enough to and got a very good draw at City of Manchester Stadium. On the other hand we had disappointing performances against Man U, Liverpool, Spurs and Stoke but three of those games we would have struggled to get any points from anyway. So really our away form is more or less par for the course, although for the whole game at Man Utd and the first half at Spurs we did get embarassed.

Is Sam doing a good job? Should you even ask that question? Of course he is. No one is saying he's a miracle worker but he's doing a very good job given the circumstances. Is there room for improvement and does Sam sometimes get it wrong? Of course he does.

There's people on here determined to criticise the manager, who have been against him from day one. The fact you can write a whole passage like that and even question whether he's done a good job at Rovers considering the last two years, what came before it and the circumstances he's worked in seem to put you very much in that camp.

Our away form and approach is one thing but lets not kid ourselves here, the home performances have been pretty terrible in the main, with a few exceptions.

He’s done a good job in keeping us up, I’ll not deny that, but the football is awful, always has been throughout his time here.

Ask Bolton fans what they think about his football, they’ll tell you the same, but he did a good job in the main at Bolton also, but lost the fans in the end.

For him or against him, you can guarantee one thing, he’ll lose the vast majority of fans here, because his product is very poor indeed, and that’s even with cash to spend ala Newcastle and towards the end at Bolton.

[tony gale's mic]

Our away form and approach is one thing but lets not kid ourselves here, the home performances have been pretty terrible in the main, with a few exceptions.

He’s done a good job in keeping us up, I’ll not deny that, but the football is awful, always has been throughout his time here.

Ask Bolton fans what they think about his football, they’ll tell you the same, but he did a good job in the main at Bolton also, but lost the fans in the end.

For him or against him, you can guarantee one thing, he’ll lose the vast majority of fans here, because his product is very poor indeed, and that’s even with cash to spend ala Newcastle and towards the end at Bolton.

He's not just kept us up - last season we finished as many points away from a Champions' League place as we did to relegation. He's comfortably kept us up and set a platform which, with investment, we could climb further with. Despite Saturday's result I think come the end of December we'll be looking pretty comfortable again. The one Bolton fan on here speaks highly of him still.

Everton, Villa, Chelsea and the first half against Arsenal were all good performances, sure the others were scrappy but Sunderland (and to a lesser extent Fulham) are squads assembled with considerably more money than us - we certainly don't have a divine right to be dominating them home or away.

But like I said, you're another one who has shown yourself very much to be in the category of being against the manager no matter what.

[BRFC1995]

I agree he's a good player, but I don't think we'll see the best of him until either he moves elsewhere, we spend big on supporting players or we get another manager who isn't as tactically rigid as BFS.

He's a player we should be building the team around and playing to the strengths of, instead of trying to make him into Kevin Davies - especially given how much we paid for him.

Why???????????shown absolutely nothing

Jones, Samba, and Robinson are the only stars in our current shower, build from the back and build around them........setting a team up for one player who clearly just is'nt right for this high a league is insanity.

[47er]

Under Trust ownership, JW believed that Allardyce with his track record was the best optionto keep us away from relgation- he was not ensuring it as nobody could guarantee that with our squad and then finances. After Ince, gambles on the likes of Holloway could not be attempted.

Now under Venky's the outlook may be different and therefore such a safety first approach may be changing.

Agree with that. Changing the manager without a very significant change in funding would be a huge risk. As we are I can't think of anyone more likely to keep us up. But if Venky's come up with the dosh the risks are reduced somewhat and it may be that the new owners are thinking of replacing him when his contract is up.

[ABBEY]

I see your angle but I honestly couldn't see 100% of the fans being happy with it.

£10.00 quid says ABBEY would never accept it.

you would indeed be ten pounds up.

[whiteinpeace]

Our away form and approach is one thing but lets not kid ourselves here, the home performances have been pretty terrible in the main, with a few exceptions.

He’s done a good job in keeping us up, I’ll not deny that, but the football is awful, always has been throughout his time here.

Ask Bolton fans what they think about his football, they’ll tell you the same, but he did a good job in the main at Bolton also, but lost the fans in the end.

For him or against him, you can guarantee one thing, he’ll lose the vast majority of fans here, because his product is very poor indeed, and that’s even with cash to spend ala Newcastle and towards the end at Bolton.

I think that is probably a "misrepresentation" of what happened. We actually for a while had a really decent side who could play some good stuff, with Okocha, Hierro, Campo, Djorkaeff, Nakata all featuring across a few seasons. Then players started to get older and Sam kept banging on about needing a "top striker" to push us on a level. He got that in Anelka but probably a year too late and we had an ageing, slow midfield. The first half of that season (Sams last) we were I think third going into the new year. Then we had a poor second half of the season and finished 7th (Sam left with 2 games to go), still a UEFA spot but we'd done that before. The issue was more that we'd probably hit a glass ceiling and Sam knew it as well as the fans. We didn't really have anything left to strive for unless serious money came our way. His interest went and the football in the second half of his last season was dire beyond belief. Possibly because we needed replacements for ageing players and also possibly because his heart had long since gone out of the job.

Its fair to say that when Sam was here we were always more pragmatic than free flowing but we did have our moments especially with Youri and Jay Jay in tandem. In a way we were conditioned to whatever football we played by the fact he took us up when nobody thought he could and then kept us there further defying odds, then top 10, cup final, europe etc. Most people totally believed that whatever methods he had, were necessary.

So much so that when Owen came there was a significant amount of worry that "you simply can't play football at a club like Bolton in the top flight and do well". That of course has been blown away now!

[chris]

I think that is probably a "misrepresentation" of what happened. We actually for a while had a really decent side who could play some good stuff, with Okocha, Hierro, Campo, Djorkaeff, Nakata all featuring across a few seasons. Then players started to get older and Sam kept banging on about needing a "top striker" to push us on a level. He got that in Anelka but probably a year too late and we had an ageing, slow midfield. The first half of that season (Sams last) we were I think third going into the new year. Then we had a poor second half of the season and finished 7th (Sam left with 2 games to go), still a UEFA spot but we'd done that before. The issue was more that we'd probably hit a glass ceiling and Sam knew it as well as the fans. We didn't really have anything left to strive for unless serious money came our way. His interest went and the football in the second half of his last season was dire beyond belief. Possibly because we needed replacements for ageing players and also possibly because his heart had long since gone out of the job.

Its fair to say that when Sam was here we were always more pragmatic than free flowing but we did have our moments especially with Youri and Jay Jay in tandem. In a way we were conditioned to whatever football we played by the fact he took us up when nobody thought he could and then kept us there further defying odds, then top 10, cup final, europe etc. Most people totally believed that whatever methods he had, were necessary.

So much so that when Owen came there was a significant amount of worry that "you simply can't play football at a club like Bolton in the top flight and do well". That of course has been blown away now!

yeah I can remember some decent moments from Jay Jay, must have been a good show.

[BuckyRover]

I think that is probably a "misrepresentation" of what happened. We actually for a while had a really decent side who could play some good stuff, with Okocha, Hierro, Campo, Djorkaeff, Nakata all featuring across a few seasons. Then players started to get older and Sam kept banging on about needing a "top striker" to push us on a level. He got that in Anelka but probably a year too late and we had an ageing, slow midfield. The first half of that season (Sams last) we were I think third going into the new year. Then we had a poor second half of the season and finished 7th (Sam left with 2 games to go), still a UEFA spot but we'd done that before. The issue was more that we'd probably hit a glass ceiling and Sam knew it as well as the fans. We didn't really have anything left to strive for unless serious money came our way. His interest went and the football in the second half of his last season was dire beyond belief. Possibly because we needed replacements for ageing players and also possibly because his heart had long since gone out of the job.

Its fair to say that when Sam was here we were always more pragmatic than free flowing but we did have our moments especially with Youri and Jay Jay in tandem. In a way we were conditioned to whatever football we played by the fact he took us up when nobody thought he could and then kept us there further defying odds, then top 10, cup final, europe etc. Most people totally believed that whatever methods he had, were necessary.

So much so that when Owen came there was a significant amount of worry that "you simply can't play football at a club like Bolton in the top flight and do well". That of course has been blown away now!

YOU CAN'T PLAY FOOTBALL LIKE THAT. DO YOU WANT TO GET RELEGATED LIKE WEST BROM?

Ad infinitum

[Bobby G]

Id rather win ugly consistently and qualify for Europe rather than play nicely and finish mid-table. The issue is because we are yo-yoing between 10th-15th playing this way, people are taking for granted our place in the league even though we have one of the weakest squads (Definitely in terms of cost at the very least without argument), and thinking by changing our style of football we will be pushing up the league.

I think this season we have seen far better football on the whole than last season. The quality is better.

[thenodrog]

I think that is probably a "misrepresentation" of what happened. We actually for a while had a really decent side who could play some good stuff, with Okocha, Hierro, Campo, Djorkaeff, Nakata all featuring across a few seasons. Then players started to get older and Sam kept banging on about needing a "top striker" to push us on a level. He got that in Anelka but probably a year too late and we had an ageing, slow midfield. The first half of that season (Sams last) we were I think third going into the new year. Then we had a poor second half of the season and finished 7th (Sam left with 2 games to go), still a UEFA spot but we'd done that before. The issue was more that we'd probably hit a glass ceiling and Sam knew it as well as the fans. We didn't really have anything left to strive for unless serious money came our way. His interest went and the football in the second half of his last season was dire beyond belief. Possibly because we needed replacements for ageing players and also possibly because his heart had long since gone out of the job.

Its fair to say that when Sam was here we were always more pragmatic than free flowing but we did have our moments especially with Youri and Jay Jay in tandem. In a way we were conditioned to whatever football we played by the fact he took us up when nobody thought he could and then kept us there further defying odds, then top 10, cup final, europe etc. Most people totally believed that whatever methods he had, were necessary.

So much so that when Owen came there was a significant amount of worry that "you simply can't play football at a club like Bolton in the top flight and do well". That of course has been blown away now!

Good post. Allardyce's teams punched way above their weight for long enough. You did play some good stuff and I'm sure we would if only we could unearth another Campo. You could also play 'ugly' too when better teams came to town and is no doubt bthe reason that the likes of Wenger whinge so much and have given Allardyce such a poor media reputation. Top 8 though for clubs like us is as much as we can hope for. imo SA left primarily because he'd been hurt by the England rejection in favour of the much poorer manager Wally and realised that he'd have walked it if he'd been manager of a higher profile club. (Boro being at the time because of Gibsons funding).

BUT beware now all you have to do is blow away your debt before it blows you away. It could easily.

[Mattyblue]

YOU CAN'T PLAY FOOTBALL LIKE THAT. DO YOU WANT TO GET RELEGATED LIKE WEST BROM?

Ad infinitum

The point is West Brom, Burnley, Blackpool etc had free reign to play an expansive game because they had the infrastructure/wage bill to cope with relgation, we did not. That was the crux of many peoples arguments.

Bolton were in a similar boat to ourselves and had plumped for a 'safe pair of hands/percentage' manager in Megson after the disaster of Sammy Lee (see Ince).

Bolton have now taken a chance on Coyle and it seems to be paying off- under the Trust it would have been unlikely that JW would have made a similar appointment.

However, times have now changed at Ewood but it is churlish to deride fellow fans that in the Trust era wanted a safety first manager.

[BuckyRover]

The point is West Brom, Burnley, Blackpool etc had free reign to play an expansive game because they had the infrastructure/wage bill to cope with relgation, we did not. That was the crux of many peoples arguments.

Bolton were in a similar boat to ourselves and had plumped for a 'safe pair of hands/percentage' manager in Megson after the disaster of Sammy Lee (see Ince).

Bolton have now taken a chance on Coyle and it seems to be paying off- under the Trust it would have been unlikely that JW would have made a similar appointment.

However, times have now changed at Ewood but it is churlish to deride fellow fans that in the Trust era wanted a safety first manager.

I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem with people who say we HAVE to play ugly (not talking about recent performances) otherwise we would get relegated. It's obviously not true.

[whiteinpeace]

Good post. Allardyce's teams punched way above their weight for long enough. You did play some good stuff and I'm sure we would if only we could unearth another Campo. You could also play 'ugly' too when better teams came to town and is no doubt bthe reason that the likes of Wenger whinge so much and have given Allardyce such a poor media reputation. Top 8 though for clubs like us is as much as we can hope for. imo SA left primarily because he'd been hurt by the England rejection in favour of the much poorer manager Wally and realised that he'd have walked it if he'd been manager of a higher profile club. (Boro being at the time because of Gibsons funding).

BUT beware now all you have to do is blow away your debt before it blows you away. It could easily.

Absolutely though its not as much of a pressing issue as the media have made out. Long term we're a bit stuffed if Eddie Davies dissapears for whatever reason. Short term we're "ok" without being in a brilliant financial position. I believe there is a small amount of money to buy in January even if we don't sell (which we will at some point especially Cahill as that was always the deal, buy young, improve player, finish higher up the league, repeat is our business model now).

You guys of course are now debt free with new investment, a good place to be and you don't have to worry about relegation. Interesting times for both clubs I reckon!

[gumboots]

Absolutely though its not as much of a pressing issue as the media have made out. Long term we're a bit stuffed if Eddie Davies dissapears for whatever reason. Short term we're "ok" without being in a brilliant financial position. I believe there is a small amount of money to buy in January even if we don't sell (which we will at some point especially Cahill as that was always the deal, buy young, improve player, finish higher up the league, repeat is our business model now).

You guys of course are now debt free with new investment, a good place to be and

you don't have to worry about relegation. Interesting times for both clubs I reckon!

How do you work that out?

[tony gale's mic]

YOU CAN'T PLAY FOOTBALL LIKE THAT. DO YOU WANT TO GET RELEGATED LIKE WEST BROM?

Ad infinitum

Coyle is likely a better manager than Sam, but this says more about Coyles talents than it does about Sam. That said, he still needs to match Sams record of continued success over a number of seasons if he's to prove himself as being better.

The vast majority of managers who have tried to play pretty football on a shoestring budget have gone down at either the first or second time of asking.

[Hughesy]

How do you work that out?

Probably looking at our position, our points tally, and being realistic?

[Amo]

Probably looking at our position, our points tally, and being realistic?

Tempting fate, more like.

[gumboots]

Probably looking at our position, our points tally, and being realistic?

I'm not saying we'll get relegated, but to sy we don't have to worry is silly. Of course we do until it's not possible or even likely.

[whiteinpeace]

What I meant was you should have more than enough to stay up as it is, and given you're getting some money to spend you should be looking upwards rather than worrying about whats over your shoulder.

All sides in mid table worry about it now, thats the nature of it, but I think you'll be fine, especially after you take your annual three points from us at the Reebok in a week or so!

[duffbear]

I agree he's a good player, but I don't think we'll see the best of him until either he moves elsewhere, we spend big on supporting players or we get another manager who isn't as tactically rigid as BFS.

He's a player we should be building the team around and playing to the strengths of, instead of trying to make him into Kevin Davies - especially given how much we paid for him.

Totally agree with this post.

I think Kalnic is like Marmite to Rovers fans!

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I think that is probably a "misrepresentation" of what happened. We actually for a while had a really decent side who could play some good stuff, with Okocha, Hierro, Campo, Djorkaeff, Nakata all featuring across a few seasons. Then players started to get older and Sam kept banging on about needing a "top striker" to push us on a level. He got that in Anelka but probably a year too late and we had an ageing, slow midfield. The first half of that season (Sams last) we were I think third going into the new year. Then we had a poor second half of the season and finished 7th (Sam left with 2 games to go), still a UEFA spot but we'd done that before. The issue was more that we'd probably hit a glass ceiling and Sam knew it as well as the fans. We didn't really have anything left to strive for unless serious money came our way. His interest went and the football in the second half of his last season was dire beyond belief. Possibly because we needed replacements for ageing players and also possibly because his heart had long since gone out of the job.

Its fair to say that when Sam was here we were always more pragmatic than free flowing but we did have our moments especially with Youri and Jay Jay in tandem. In a way we were conditioned to whatever football we played by the fact he took us up when nobody thought he could and then kept us there further defying odds, then top 10, cup final, europe etc. Most people totally believed that whatever methods he had, were necessary.

So much so that when Owen came there was a significant amount of worry that "you simply can't play football at a club like Bolton in the top flight and do well". That of course has been blown away now!

I remember watching Bolton a few times in that era and being impressed. They played one up front but when the got the ball most of the midfield bombed on and they got plenty of players up and beyond the lone striker rapidly. When they lost the ball everybody got back and worked hard to regain possession. Exactly what we don't do now.

[Gav]

But like I said, you're another one who has shown yourself very much to be in the category of being against the manager no matter what.

A bit unfair to be honest that TGM, I’ve praised Allardyce numerous times for his transfer dealings and keeping us up, seems I’m guilty by association, but hey I’ve got broad enough shoulders.

The fans in the main now seem to be against the manager from what I can tell, that wasn't the case when he arrived, even I felt he was the best man for the job and still do to some extent. But his continued self promotion and lack of a plan B makes him a manager on borrowed time and the clock is ticking.

[jim mk2]

But his continued self promotion and lack of a plan B makes him a manager on borrowed time and the clock is ticking.

Where do get that impression ? Certainly not from the club or itsnew owners while a few disgruntled posters on a messageboard plus some of your mates not liking him does not constitute a manager "on borrowed time with the clock ticking". Be careful what you wish for matey - this club is in safe hands with this manager.

[BuckyRover]

Where do get that impression ? Certainly not from the club or itsnew owners while a few disgruntled posters on a messageboard plus some of your mates not liking him does not constitute a manager "on borrowed time with the clock ticking". Be careful what you wish for matey - this club is in safe hands with this manager.

Not that safe. You were saying we could get relegated.

It's not in our hands, although I will eat my hat if he is still in charge for the first game of next season.