[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[tony gale's mic]

The few of us who know anything about the game wanted him first time around!

It was a no brainer weeks ago as it was last summer.

Post not directed at you tgm, just using your qoute to make a general point

Disagree, Laudrup and ten Cate still would've been better options in summer. Especially ten Cate, he's worked wonders at Pana so far, knows our league well etc. Both for me would've been better candidates to take us forward from where we were under Hughes. Allardyce wouldn't have been as bad a bet as a lot of us made out though and I'm sure we would've at least been mid-table. However, I think once we got ourselves into a scrap there was only really one man for the job.

[John]

Disagree, Laudrup and ten Cate still would've been better options in summer. Especially ten Cate, he's worked wonders at Pana so far, knows our league well etc. Both for me would've been better candidates to take us forward from where we were under Hughes. Allardyce wouldn't have been as bad a bet as a lot of us made out though and I'm sure we would've at least been mid-table. However, I think once we got ourselves into a scrap there was only really one man for the job.

Both never managed in the Premiership?

Take us forward? Would you have been expecting a title challenge under those two managers?

[thenodrog]

The few of us who know anything about the game wanted him first time around!

It was a no brainer weeks ago as it was last summer.

Post not directed at you tgm, just using your qoute to make a general point

This is well funny (especially for future reference). Lest we forget...........

http://www.brfcs.co.uk/mb/index.php?showtopic=18792

btw somebody called 'ally' (3rd page) must have the record for fewest posts but most damaging contribution to BRFC.

[rover6]

We may even begin to love the Ginger Mourinho one day. Not yet though.

The ultimate defensive-minded manager is your Ginger Mourinho. With him, you'll never be anywhere but bottom half of the league - at best.

AS for Allardyce, there is no doubt he's getting the job done but I just can't accept his direct philosophy and his preoccupation with the "percentage game".

He seems to reduce football to a series of probabilities - the most telling of which being, hit the big man early and see what happens. And then there's his indulgence in "wheeling and dealing" which we haven't seen the worst of yet - maybe we won't see it - but something tells me it won't be too long in the distant future when our reserves are dotted with Akin Bulents and Martin Djetou.

I remember a post a long while back in which Paul perceptively commented on how the smaller clubs are having to deal with the growing gulf in the Premier League by resorting to functional, direct tactics to obviate their inferior technical ability and mental strength of their side. I guess managers like Allardyce and Moyes are doing the best they can with lesser players - and it works. So how can I complain?

[tony gale's mic]

Both never managed in the Premiership?

Take us forward? Would you have been expecting a title challenge under those two managers?

You can use the "never managed in the Premiership" argument against many good managers, it's hardly fair. In summer we had a different outlook, we could afford to make a slightly less safe appointment, only we chose someone who wasn't slightly risky, but was doomed to failure from day one. Laudrup was an exciting, promising young manager who had experience and a fair degree of success at the highest level and ten Cate a man who, although he hadn't managed in the Premiership, had good experience of both the Premiership and of management.

Look at what Villa are doing now. Granted they're bankrolled by a billionaire but actually when you look at their team it's not really been that relevant. It's largely down to their manager and some astute signings/good young players coming through. I'm not even saying we could've reached those heights since they've still spent more than we could, but taking us forward could've meant a place in the top 6, winning a cup, getting further in Europe when we got in, playing more exciting football etc. And there wasn't that much separating us and Villa last season, and while they spent a fair whack in the summer, the quality of player they brought in could've actually been bought for much cheaper, so for me with the right manager we could potentially have been 5 or 6 points behind them at this stage.

I completely agree with the appointment of Sam, you only need to see the first post in this thread to see that. And while I'm certain he'll save us from relegation, I think we would've stagnated or got slightly worse under him if we followed Hughes with him. Granted it would've been a damn sight better than Ince but compared to the candidates that were interested I still wouldve picked them in summer.

[thenodrog]

Look at what Villa are doing now. Granted they're bankrolled by a billionaire but actually when you look at their team it's not really been that relevant. It's largely down to their manager and some astute signings/good young players coming through.

Indeed BUT I think the BIGGEST single issue in the Villa success story is that the wealth of Randy Lerner has been able to stop them being raided for their best players.

5 years ago Young, Barry and Agbonlahore would have likely been picked off by bigger clubs either this transfer window or the last one. If we'd had that sort of wealth and a proper manager I'm sure that no one would have left us in the summer that we didn't want to leave.

[John]

Like in the summer, people should remember we have the smallest transfer budget in the Premiership. Recent transfer history shows that. Plus owners who want to sell the club.

All this glamour hysteria around Laudrup and making major signings are nonsense.

The key thing IMO is that we have limited financial resources, which meant Allardyce should have number one choice from the day Hughes left.

[Hughesy]

If we beat Sunderland, Bolton & then Boro then I think Big Sam will have most of his doubters on his side. I honestly believe we can do that so heres hoping.

Oh Sammy, Sammy

Sammy, Sammy, Sammy, Sammy

Allardyce

[Neil Weaver]

AS for Allardyce, there is no doubt he's getting the job done but I just can't accept his direct philosophy and his preoccupation with the "percentage game".

I know it's early days, but no sign of that yet. It was one of my fears and why I've never been a Sam fan but we're actually playing decent stuff.

[Hughesy]

The most important thing is that we are getting results again, much rather that than Ince and his crew messing it all up.

[thenodrog]

He seems to reduce football to a series of probabilities - the most telling of which being, hit the big man early and see what happens.

Eh? I cannot think of a forward who would not want the ball delivered early. What the hell use is it waiting until the forwards are all closely marked up?

Have you ever played football rover6?

[chris]

I have massive confidence in SA, I voted for him in the summer and was disappointed when once came

As a fan, he does make me feel small, he doesn't put down the team or the club like ince did, he's made players believe they are good players at a good club

It was sad today to see tony Adams take the ###### out of portsmouth, if the manager believes the club is goin nowhere what will the players think, crouch to leave next

[Majiball]

Eh? I cannot think of a forward who would not want the ball delivered early. What the hell use is it waiting until the forwards are all closely marked up?

Have you ever played football rover6?

There's playing a ball into the striker and hitting it up field for him to chase.

The first half against Newcastle we just hit the channels.

However we played better in the second half after Sam had had a word. The third was a particularly nice team move.

At the end of the day as Sam has said he has done nothing but defensive work, its obviously working at present. 2 goals in 5 games makes a nice change.

[T4E]

It was sad today to see tony Adams take the ###### out of portsmouth, if the manager believes the club is goin nowhere what will the players think, crouch to leave next

Its a matter of basic intelligence - people like Adams and Ince dont have a clue that their idiotic comments will have a negative impact.

As British managers go Sam is about as intelligent and articulate as they come. When he wants to be.

[Zulu]

There's playing a ball into the striker and hitting it up field for him to chase.

Yes, the former is what Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea and Manchester United do. The latter is reserved for teams that shouldn't be in the Premier League such as Bolton Wanderers and Blackburn Rovers.

Some of you knew that already. Others will figure it out as the media gets into your ribs in the coming months.

[CrazyIvan]

Yes, the former is what Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea and Manchester United do. The latter is reserved for teams that shouldn't be in the Premier League such as Bolton Wanderers and Blackburn Rovers.

Some of you knew that already. Others will figure it out as the media gets into your ribs in the coming months.

They're already doing it. I read the words 'traditional Allardyce approach' for the second goal being the result of a 'long ball' from Robinson. EVERY side has the keeper clear the ball upfield, it just happens that we scored from it! They failed to mention the third goal which was a great team move or the penalty which was the result of decent play and a good cross.

[T4E]

Did they mention that we won 3-0? Who gives a (Please don't use that word again) how we did it?

[Kelbo]

Yes, the former is what Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea and Manchester United do. The latter is reserved for teams that shouldn't be in the Premier League such as Bolton Wanderers and Blackburn Rovers.

Some of you knew that already. Others will figure it out as the media gets into your ribs in the coming months.

So you never watched the balls played to Shearer, in the channels and wide for him to run on to!!

The object of a quick fix, which Sam has to do here, is to make the team difficult to beat, he seems to be doing that.

Dalglish saw the early ball as a great option, early diagonal balls into the box and also balls into the channels for Shearer!!

I was always taught, you want opposing defences to be facing their own goals as it is most difficult to defend in that situation.

Under Ince we were forever facing our own goals, thats why we conceded so many.

Now under Sam, we are defending in two banks of four and when the ball is won, get the ball forward early, thats not dull, that is pure common sense as the opponents do not have time to react as they would like!!

We must remember, we are not a wealthy club, we cant go and buy world class players and we have to use the players we have to the best of our ability, this is why Roberts is coming through now, Sam uses him effectively and he works well with Benni, throughout the team there is a work ethic and guess what (apart from the City game) we appear to be strong in the second half, as with Sparky, I wonder why, well I know why, its down to training methods and coaching.

[Zulu]

So you never watched the balls played to Shearer, in the channels and wide for him to run on to!!

The object of a quick fix, which Sam has to do here, is to make the team difficult to beat, he seems to be doing that.

Dalglish saw the early ball as a great option, early diagonal balls into the box and also balls into the channels for Shearer!!

I was always taught, you want opposing defences to be facing their own goals as it is most difficult to defend in that situation.

Under Ince we were forever facing our own goals, thats why we conceded so many.

Now under Sam, we are defending in two banks of four and when the ball is won, get the ball forward early, thats not dull, that is pure common sense as the opponents do not have time to react as they would like!!

We must remember, we are not a wealthy club, we cant go and buy world class players and we have to use the players we have to the best of our ability, this is why Roberts is coming through now, Sam uses him effectively and he works well with Benni, throughout the team there is a work ethic and guess what (apart from the City game) we appear to be strong in the second half, as with Sparky, I wonder why, well I know why, its down to training methods and coaching.

Er, I think you may be missing my point Kelbo. I'm on your side - well on this one anyway!

[only2garners]

They're already doing it. I read the words 'traditional Allardyce approach' for the second goal being the result of a 'long ball' from Robinson. EVERY side has the keeper clear the ball upfield, it just happens that we scored from it!

It wasn't so much as a long ball as a well worked set piece, one of Allardyce's trademarks. Ooijer went up for what was a routine free kick and the resulting extra man completely confused the Newcastle defence (admittedly not a difficult task), making the space for first Pedersen and then Roberts to stroll through.

[Kelbo]

Zulo wrote "Er, I think you may be missing my point Kelbo. I'm on your side - well on this one anyway! "

Sorry

[Mr Creosote]

Yes, the former is what Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea and Manchester United do. The latter is reserved for teams that shouldn't be in the Premier League such as Bolton Wanderers and Blackburn Rovers.

Some of you knew that already. Others will figure it out as the media gets into your ribs in the coming months.

The media have been getting in our ribs for 16 years.

[rover6]

Eh? I cannot think of a forward who would not want the ball delivered early. What the hell use is it waiting until the forwards are all closely marked up?

Have you ever played football rover6?

All forwards would like an early pass as long as it picks them out and gives them a real chance of doing something with the ball.

I am talking of the early pass, as in, hitting the big man's head/chest/shoulders to see if the ricochet does not fall your way.

A bit like in Rugby where some geezer whacks the ball miles into the sky and chases in the hope that the other team guy (no idea of position, full back?) fumbles/messes up. Hit and hope.

Allardyce wants his team to be able to play a bit - he's not a total philistine, like Tony Pulis, but Allardyce's bottom line is, get the ball in the box early, rather than trying anything intricate. This is fine, imo, as long as it does not make our side totally or largely devoid of skilful play and ball retention.

WHo wants to see Henrik Pedersen and Kevin Davies types throwing themselves around after lofted balls? Well, some would say that if that's what it takes, all good and well. I say, get out of relegation flutters and then try to play a bit of football.

[Zulu]

Allardyce wants his team to be able to play a bit - he's not a total philistine, like Tony Pulis, but Allardyce's bottom line is, get the ball in the box early, rather than trying anything intricate. This is fine, imo, as long as it does not make our side totally or largely devoid of skilful play and ball retention.

WHo wants to see Henrik Pedersen and Kevin Davies types throwing themselves around after lofted balls? Well, some would say that if that's what it takes, all good and well. I say, get out of relegation flutters and then try to play a bit of football.

So where do you sit on this one, rover6? I reckon both Pedersen and Davies were playing for BSA. The same side also had the likes of Okocha, Djorkaeff, Campo, and Hierro at various times. We were never devoid of skilful play and ball retention - despite what Lawro and Andy Gray may tell you!

If you want Blackburn Rovers to play beautiful flowing football and entertain the neutrals then that's fine by me. But you'll get turned over most weeks. We learned that lesson when we yo-yoed in the PL under Colin Todd, prior to the arrival of BSA.

You may want to hear Arsene Wenger heaping praise on you for your approach to the game after sticking four goals on you. As far as I'm concerned he can stick his praise up his chuff.

Just my view, of course.

[philipl]

Looks like rover6 has gone off belabouring the kids and now is stuck on Sam's football is rubbish.

ah well.

The football is getting us points, Sam seems to have revived at least half the squad who were performing direly under PI and is giving the best managerial press quotes since King Kenny.

I can live with rover6's complaints if that is the price to pay.