[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[92er]

At the end of the day as Sam has said he has done nothing but defensive work, its obviously working at present. 2 goals in 5 games makes a nice change.

I have noticed with interest some of your fascinating comments about the warm-up at Wigan as well as a number of technical items.

Although I accept we are doing much better defensively than before, I also think the goals conceded figure is slightly flattering.

Robinho wasn't stopped by the defence from scoring in the first half against City-he fluffed an amazing chance.

I thought Newcastle should have scored 2 in the first half, firstly when the French left-sided player put over an excellent cross, then later when Duff somehow or other got the chance to set up up Butt.

It is quite clear we have improved, and I accept that it could be argued that any of these chances on target could have been saved by Robinson. I just want to add there is still some brittleness about the defence.

[Kelbo]

I have noticed with interest some of your fascinating comments about the warm-up at Wigan as well as a number of technical items.

Although I accept we are doing much better defensively than before, I also think the goals conceded figure is slightly flattering.

Robinho wasn't stopped by the defence from scoring in the first half against City-he fluffed an amazing chance.

I thought Newcastle should have scored 2 in the first half, firstly when the French left-sided player put over an excellent cross, then later when Duff somehow or other got the chance to set up up Butt.

It is quite clear we have improved, and I accept that it could be argued that any of these chances on target could have been saved by Robinson. I just want to add there is still some brittleness about the defence.

Agreed, thats why Sam has brought in defenders, also we have missed chances too, but what Sam has brought to the team is defending as a unit and quite honestly Robbo didnt have a shot to save Saturday we scored three, hit the post and had other chances.

Sam has taken the team back to basics, defend in two banks of four with pressure and support from the midfield in both defence and attack.

Under Ince I noticed that given the three moments of a game (in coaching terms) when we were in posession we were ok ish, when we were not in posession we were not good and that is because when posession changed, we did not react quickly enough, be that due to lack of fitness or whatever, its something we do now, bodies behind the ball when defending and lots of support when attacking and more importantly we seem to have energy levels once more and thats down to proper coaching!!

[Neil Weaver]

All forwards would like an early pass as long as it picks them out and gives them a real chance of doing something with the ball.

I am talking of the early pass, as in, hitting the big man's head/chest/shoulders to see if the ricochet does not fall your way.

A bit like in Rugby where some geezer whacks the ball miles into the sky and chases in the hope that the other team guy (no idea of position, full back?) fumbles/messes up. Hit and hope.

Allardyce wants his team to be able to play a bit - he's not a total philistine, like Tony Pulis, but Allardyce's bottom line is, get the ball in the box early, rather than trying anything intricate. This is fine, imo, as long as it does not make our side totally or largely devoid of skilful play and ball retention.

WHo wants to see Henrik Pedersen and Kevin Davies types throwing themselves around after lofted balls? Well, some would say that if that's what it takes, all good and well. I say, get out of relegation flutters and then try to play a bit of football.

Welcome to the jaundiced world of Mr 6. You seem to reckon the balance is at least 80/20 'get the ball in the box early'/'play a bit'. After seeing all of Sam's games so far - though I think you can forget about Blyth with it being a totally different 11 etc - I'd say the balance is 80/20 entirely the other way AT THE MOMENT. Of course things might change, but so far there isn't a huge change in our style to what we've seen for the last few years.

[Majiball]

Yes, the former is what Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea and Manchester United do. The latter is reserved for teams that shouldn't be in the Premier League such as Bolton Wanderers and Blackburn Rovers.

Some of you knew that already. Others will figure it out as the media gets into your ribs in the coming months.

Our players should have the ability to do it at our level. We have fallen into a trap in this country and its going to kill our game. The lower you go the more long balls you see, now what do you think they are teaching in the youth set-ups at those clubs??

Instead watch spainish football, its football all the way down the leagues, no long ball crap. Why do you have to play a long ball up field?

Before anyone says you cannot match big teams playing football you should take a look at Plymouth Arygles youth departement. Last season/year before Plymouth won the league for the first time in ten years, they also got to the quarter finals of the youth cup, man citys manager said he thought plymouth pushed them all the way. they lost 2-1 no disgrace.

The previous manager advocated hitting the channels as most do in the lower leagues, he got nowhere the new guy changed the lot technical training went up as did playing the game, long balls with no purpose where banned. And look what he achieved with the same group that couldn't cut the mustard playing long ball.

Players in this country are so poor technically,why? If a prem player can't hit a ball over 40 yards accuratly he shouldn't be in the league. Our lack of quality is why the prices are high for good young british talent ands its only going to get worse.

We have more football clubs in this country than almost any other percentage wise, each has around 200 kids on its books. 92 clubs = 18500 kids, and thats just with league clubs, I've haven't even incorparated sataletiltes (for example plymouth have two so 600 kids on their books). Add in the youth set-ups at the rest of the clubs and you'll be well into the 100's of thousands. So where are all the players, why do we no-longer see people stepping up the leagues, because most opf them have been poorly coached. Poor coaching creates poor players in the whole.

No person in the world is born with a disposition to excel at something, scientific fact its been proven we start on an even playing field.

I have noticed with interest some of your fascinating comments about the warm-up at Wigan as well as a number of technical items.

Although I accept we are doing much better defensively than before, I also think the goals conceded figure is slightly flattering.

Robinho wasn't stopped by the defence from scoring in the first half against City-he fluffed an amazing chance.

I thought Newcastle should have scored 2 in the first half, firstly when the French left-sided player put over an excellent cross, then later when Duff somehow or other got the chance to set up up Butt.

It is quite clear we have improved, and I accept that it could be argued that any of these chances on target could have been saved by Robinson. I just want to add there is still some brittleness about the defence.

Thank you, firstly.

I don't disagree we have had some hairy moments Newcastle should have scored first half, man city on a different day and we would have struggled. We just have to be grateful they missed.

Before we had a group of players who did not believe, doubt breeds mistakes. Sam has given them back their belief (our standard of opponent has helped) and as such we are seeing fewer stupid mistakes. But we have also played practically the same team each time (Blyth does not count). Our shape is improved when we don't have the ball, we protect the areas we need to now as opposed to running round chasing the ball.

But as you said there is still a distance to go. I do think a big difference will be seen once we get a sitter on the pitch someone who knows the role, Newcastle barely got a look in once Grella was protecting the back four.

Sams barely in the door, habit changing takes a long time months. We'll have to wait and see if we're still solid towards the end of the year. If so he's doing it right and its not down to new-man syndrome.

[Billy Castell]

How is the team looking? Slow, measured passes, long ball artillery or fast paced attacks from the wings?

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

How is the team looking? Slow, measured passes, long ball artillery or fast paced attacks from the wings?

All of the above - to be honest don't feel we have yet fallen into a pattern. I think with Dunn and Grella in centre midfield we might see a more cultured passing game (as per 2nd half against Newcastle). I though MGP, Grella, Andrews, Dunn looked at reasonable midfield.

BFS is currently playing percentages - no messing around in our defensive third - may not be pretty, but is effective (at the moment).

[Billy Castell]

Things seem to be working out by just tinkering a bit then. A bit more organisation, fewer mistakes in defence etc.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Things seem to be working out by just tinkering a bit then. A bit more organisation, fewer mistakes in defence etc.

I think the key is a lot more organisation. Simple things like doubling up on attackers etc. I have seen a few games since Sam took over - the difference to the Ince era is unbelievable - especially when we don't have the ball. For me it was always noticeable that there was a big gap between our defence and midfield - Sam seems to have sorted that - making us a more effective defensive unit.

[Kelbo]

Majiball,

We have some great young players, but managers such as Wenger, saw the advantages of having powerful teams, yes they play good football, but in the main, most clubs have very few players under 6 foot tall!!

So we are saying that all the small players are useless?

Spanish football have many small players compared to us but their game is different, they dont use real pace until the final third of the field, thats why players who look quick playing in the European leagues, dont look half as quick when they come to the premiership!!

40 yard ball? yes, but with all 40 yard balls, there is an element of risk, Rovers many tyears ago had the greatest exponent of a 40 yard ball, Dave Wagstaffe and players didnt have to move, the ball dropped at their feet, ask Gordon Taylor!! But we won nothing with him.

Finally, we are in a sticky position, we cant afford luxuries at the moment, we have to be difficult to beat and pick up points right to the end of the season, Ince left us in a mess and Sam is trying to do that by being cautious and when we have the ball, we can play, however, against the multi million pound teams, we have to go a different way, be in their faces and not allow them to dictate the game, thats how you pick up points, look at the pretty footballing sides apart from the top four, they struggle.

[thenodrog]

I just want to add there is still some brittleness about the defence.

Most of the brittleness on Saturday was provided by Tugay. He cannot tackle or defend to save his life. Normally his plusses have exceeded his minus's...... on Saturday it was the complete opposite. Sad to say but we looked so much better when he went off.

[thenodrog]

Our players should have the ability to do it at our level. We have fallen into a trap in this country and its going to kill our game. The lower you go the more long balls you see, now what do you think they are teaching in the youth set-ups at those clubs??

Instead watch spainish football, its football all the way down the leagues, no long ball crap. Why do you have to play a long ball up field?

Before anyone says you cannot match big teams playing football you should take a look at Plymouth Arygles youth departement. Last season/year before Plymouth won the league for the first time in ten years, they also got to the quarter finals of the youth cup, man citys manager said he thought plymouth pushed them all the way. they lost 2-1 no disgrace.

The previous manager advocated hitting the channels as most do in the lower leagues, he got nowhere the new guy changed the lot technical training went up as did playing the game, long balls with no purpose where banned. And look what he achieved with the same group that couldn't cut the mustard playing long ball.

Our goals on Sat proved that there is nothing at all wrong with a mix of all styles. I rem Forest got relegated under Clough cos he tried to make em play too much football on the floor. As far as long balls go I think one of the best and most important goals scored in recent years was Dennis Bergkamps breathtaking late winner for Holland v the Argy's. Superb stuff. Surely you would not deny that type of action?

The problem is that most defenders think that lone strikers can trap a ball on their heads and lump it up accordingly turning 100% possession into a 50:50 lottery at best. Now that really is stupid.

btw Is it only me that thinks Allardyce looks a bit weary and unwell compared to the man who managed Notlob for all those years?

[AggyBlue]

btw Is it only me that thinks Allardyce looks a bit weary and unwell compared to the man who managed Notlob for all those years?

Just older.

The ravages of time eh

[Majiball]

Majiball,

We have some great young players, but managers such as Wenger, saw the advantages of having powerful teams, yes they play good football, but in the main, most clubs have very few players under 6 foot tall!!

So we are saying that all the small players are useless?

Spanish football have many small players compared to us but their game is different, they dont use real pace until the final third of the field, thats why players who look quick playing in the European leagues, dont look half as quick when they come to the premiership!!

40 yard ball? yes, but with all 40 yard balls, there is an element of risk, Rovers many tyears ago had the greatest exponent of a 40 yard ball, Dave Wagstaffe and players didnt have to move, the ball dropped at their feet, ask Gordon Taylor!! But we won nothing with him.

Finally, we are in a sticky position, we cant afford luxuries at the moment, we have to be difficult to beat and pick up points right to the end of the season, Ince left us in a mess and Sam is trying to do that by being cautious and when we have the ball, we can play, however, against the multi million pound teams, we have to go a different way, be in their faces and not allow them to dictate the game, thats how you pick up points, look at the pretty footballing sides apart from the top four, they struggle.

Lack of height is one of criticisms aimed at Wengers team. PS please point out these great young players????

I'm not saying that we should be playing football, I'm saying its possible for a small team to match a big team playing the game.

Small players are far from useless. My point of using Spanish football was because the majority of their players are better than ours (england) technically.

The point I was trying to make is that because most teams in england play this style IE direct you eliminate the need for a lot of skills. As such focus is not on technical development and is turning out sub standard players, hence the year on year increase in foreigners in our top league. How many English players do we have who can run with the ball?? Tell me who's the next great English player??? I can't we don't have one. How much money would you like to wager that we do not sign a single English man this window.

I shall now reveal one of the premierships top academies latest recruitment policies, If he's under 16, well built and black we want to see him, what about footballing ability? we'll do that. If only it was that easy.

Our obsession with Physical attributes and direct football will be the death of our game. The FA know it, unfortunately they see no problem with coaching in this country, just a problem with the quality of players that it produces, bizarre. Athletes as footballers or footballers into athletes, I favour the latter, I understand what can be achieved through science and a structured planned development program, especially with the youth.

Their are a few clubs in the lower leagues who have embraced modern/scientific coaching styles and ethos's Tranmere and Crewe are two great examples. Both have produced players who have cut the grade at premiership level, so where's the rest? Their not coming their not good enough. Given that a country (Holland) with less than half our population can consistently produce far superior technical players than ours, you have to ask questions.

Where will england be once Neville, Terry, Ferdinand, Lampard, Gerrard, Beckham, Owen and Co, the golden generation retire, who's good enough to replace them? Why do we have so few english head coaches/managers in the premiership???

The point I am trying to make can be illustrated in our last two managers, one a scientific approach, one a tradtional english coach, which method worked?

[Majiball]

Our goals on Sat proved that there is nothing at all wrong with a mix of all styles. I rem Forest got relegated under Clough cos he tried to make em play too much football on the floor. As far as long balls go I think one of the best and most important goals scored in recent years was Dennis Bergkamps breathtaking late winner for Holland v the Argy's. Superb stuff. Surely you would not deny that type of action?

The problem is that most defenders think that lone strikers can trap a ball on their heads and lump it up accordingly turning 100% possession into a 50:50 lottery at best. Now that really is stupid.

Yes a mix, I'd love to see that, trouble is most teams do not have that variety. At the end of the day the situation in the game at that moment dictates the ball required.

A long ball that has purpose (IE a pass) is more than welcome, however just kicking it up the other end of the pitch becuse your team-mates do not understand that if they move you will create passing options, is not. We see far too much of this in our country.

Against Newcastle we spent the first half hitting it forward, into the channels, we should have been 1 possibly two down. Interesting to note that once we came out in the second half and started to play a bit more we dominated, and scored 3, hands up who saw that coming at half-time?

As you said once the ball goes up in the air its normally a 50/50 who's the favourite???

Our goals on Sat proved that there is nothing at all wrong with a mix of all styles. I rem Forest got relegated under Clough cos he tried to make em play too much football on the floor. As far as long balls go I think one of the best and most important goals scored in recent years was Dennis Bergkamps breathtaking late winner for Holland v the Argy's. Superb stuff. Surely you would not deny that type of action?

The problem is that most defenders think that lone strikers can trap a ball on their heads and lump it up accordingly turning 100% possession into a 50:50 lottery at best. Now that really is stupid.

Yes a mix, I'd love to see that, trouble is most teams do not have that variety. At the end of the day the situation in the game at that moment dictates the ball required.

A long ball that has purpose (IE a pass) is more than welcome, however just kicking it up the other end of the pitch becuse your team-mates do not understand that if they move you will create passing options, is not. We see far too much of this in our country.

Against Newcastle we spent the first half hitting it forward, into the channels, we should have been 1 possibly two down. Interesting to note that once we came out in the second half and started to play a bit more we dominated, and scored 3, hands up who saw that coming at half-time?

As you said once the ball goes up in the air its normally a 50/50 who's the favourite???

[jim mk2]

Where will england be once Neville, Terry, Ferdinand, Lampard, Gerrard, Beckham, Owen and Co, the golden generation retire, who's good enough to replace them? Why do we have so few english head coaches/managers in the premiership???

Golden generation ??? Don't make me larf. What did England achieve with that lot .... nowt. Tin gods with too much brass would be a better description.

With regards to Allardyce, I thought he looked far too smug and pleased with himself on Match of the Day on Saturday. Perhaps big Sam is starting to believe his own publicity which is a sure sign that Rovers are heading for some setbacks very soon.

[waggy]

allidice has made a decent start as rovers manager,feb will see how far we have come

[Mattyblue]

With regards to Allardyce, I thought he looked far too smug and pleased with himself on Match of the Day on Saturday. Perhaps big Sam is starting to believe his own publicity which is a sure sign that Rovers are heading for some setbacks very soon.

Im glad that we now have a manager that doesnt make excuses, can back up self confidence with results and is happy to mix it with anyone, most unlike Paul 'well we cant expect much as there is no investment' Ince.

[Pugg]

With regards to Allardyce, I thought he looked far too smug and pleased with himself on Match of the Day on Saturday. Perhaps big Sam is starting to believe his own publicity which is a sure sign that Rovers are heading for some setbacks very soon.

I thought he looked confident, at ease and showed respect for Newcastle when asked if it felt good to beat them. I don't think he looked smug. He looked happy, and I enjoyed his sense of humour re being greedy. Mind you, I'd feel pretty pleased with myself if I'd just won 3-0 against the club that sacked me, especially after the hearing the fans singing about how @#/? I was.

[rover6]

Of course things might change, but so far there isn't a huge change in our style to what we've seen for the last few years.

As long as we stay 4-4-2, there is hope.

If Allardyce reverts to his beloved 4-5-1, then, I do fear the worst for our style of play. There is no doubt that his Bolton side could play. I remember an FA Cup game in which they were said to have passed the ball around superbly (against lower league opp, mind you). ANd yes, they did have Hierro and Campo and "I'm-34-And-Living-Off-My-Name-o" and these guys were technically excellent.

However, as a general rule, Bolton were kings of long ball.

Nicholas Anelka, whilst at Bolton and scoring plenty of goals, described it as "kick and rush". I'd hate it if Rovers became that.

But I know I'm tying myself up in knots with these opinions because there is no example of a manager of a smaller club creating a sustainable and successful Prem side playing "good football". Moyes and Allardyce have done it the direct way.

Maybe there is no other way (unless you have millions upon millions).

Which is sad for the game, imo.

[alexanders]

I hope Sam knows what he is doing and has quality players lined up for signatures IF Rocky leaves us later this month.

[Majiball]

Golden generation ??? Don't make me larf. What did England achieve with that lot .... nowt. Tin gods with too much brass would be a better description.

With regards to Allardyce, I thought he looked far too smug and pleased with himself on Match of the Day on Saturday. Perhaps big Sam is starting to believe his own publicity which is a sure sign that Rovers are heading for some setbacks very soon.

Hey not my words its what they have always been called in the press. They should have won so much.

But I know I'm tying myself up in knots with these opinions because there is no example of a manager of a smaller club creating a sustainable and successful Prem side playing "good football". Moyes and Allardyce have done it the direct way.

Maybe there is no other way (unless you have millions upon millions).

Which is sad for the game, imo.

There's hope. Check out the continent I'll name a couple, Villareal & Bordeaux spring to mind.

I believe its doable but its a long term project not a short term one.

[Kelbo]

Majiball wrote

"How many English players do we have who can run with the ball?? Tell me who's the next great English player??? "

Answer to both Jack Wilshire 16 years old in Asenal first team!!

[Majiball]

Majiball wrote

"How many English players do we have who can run with the ball?? Tell me who's the next great English player??? "

Answer to both Jack Wilshire 16 years old in Asenal first team!!

My point was meant to illustrate that generally in this country we lack players who can carry the ball, why because they never learn the skill and are not encouraged to do so, especially in the realms of the long ball game.

All players of all positions should be able to do what are considered basics in the game.

Wilshire is a fantastic prospect but labelling him englands next great player at the age of 16 is too much. The fact you've completely skipped a whole generation of footballers and named a kid just further fuels my point that our football is in decline.

Wilshire is also a product of the Coaching approach I advocate, so again not the best example.

Provided he continues to develop and is placed in the right environment to do so he could come good, could.

[Kelbo]

My point was meant to illustrate that generally in this country we lack players who can carry the ball, why because they never learn the skill and are not encouraged to do so, especially in the realms of the long ball game.

All players of all positions should be able to do what are considered basics in the game.

Wilshire is a fantastic prospect but labelling him englands next great player at the age of 16 is too much. The fact you've completely skipped a whole generation of footballers and named a kid just further fuels my point that our football is in decline.

Wilshire is also a product of the Coaching approach I advocate, so again not the best example.

Provided he continues to develop and is placed in the right environment to do so he could come good, could.

Unfortunately, modern coaching methods and requirements of most top clubs, are that ball retention are of the most important!

Yes, you will get the odd Ronaldo, these are few and far between, the coaching courses I have been on have all illustrated, if you have the ball, the other team cant play!! So we are encouraged to keep the ball and look to open the opposition, if there is no route forward, go back and start again!

With my teams I had a rule, in 2/3 of the park we do not lose the ball, in the oppositions 1/3 we can look for the killer ball or take men on, this gives the team time to regroup and get men behind the ball if we lose it!!

Under ince, we would lose the ball in the wrong areas, the midfield never recovered and the defence were left with 4 or 5 on our four!! That is not good. As for players being able to run with the ball, yes, to a degree I accept that, but they must have an end product to what they do, ie. a cross or a shot, not many players do that and as you rightly say, lots of acadamies, sacrifice skill for strength.

[Kelbo]

Just as a PS:

Another rule I had was to "do it early" free kicks, throw ins corners, why should we wait for the oppositon to sort out their wall or get players in place? They have commited the offence, so its advantage for us!!

Now, Arsenal on their day are the best footballing side in the country, they dont run with the ball, they are the greatest exponants of one touch football I have seen, on their day you cant get at them!!

Two touch football is good, one touch is awesome!