[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[LeChuck]

Wow, that's an interesting statistic.

One above Van der Sar (who has set new records this season), if that isn't testament that what an outstanding job Sam has done in such a short space of time then I don't know what is.

[Iceman]

Robinson, is still very young in terms of goalkeeper years. There are many young keepers like Cech who are very good, but have also made a series of blunders. You look at Brad, Van Der Sar and previous keepers like Khan and Schmeichel who all peaked well into their 30's. The above stats tells that Robbo has had less work to do, based on our superb defence this season. That is down to Big Sam and the team for addressing the major problem, which Ince overlooked. At the end of the day, we lost a great keeper in Friedel but gained an England international who has lots of potential to be equally great for us.

[JAL]

First thing you've got right in a while, especially when he said this:

"Still a quality keeper that we judge unfairly because of the world class one we had before."

We were never, ever going to get anyone as good as Friedel as a replacement, but Robbo is easily the amongst the best we could have hoped for.

Love your logic by the way; we concede lots of goals and he's useless, get rid of him...when we start keeping clean sheets, the defence is brilliant and are 'protecting' him. Is he best mates with Dunn or something? He's obviously done something to ###### you off.

For now I'll accept that but come the summer definitely want to see big Sam puts some pressure on Robbo and bring in anorther quality keeper.

Im seeing Robbo make mistakes like in the Sunderland game and get away with it and people post on here saying how wonderful he was, they are the ones who are getting it wrong LeChuck.

[Iceman]

Have you ever been in goal JAL? If not, then let me say that when you a keeper its easy for the next person to criticise you for making mistakes. How many top keepers out there, have not made any errors? Ive seen the likes of Khan, Van Der Sar, Buffon, Cech, Friedel and even the likes of Gary Bailey and Shilton make mistakes. When strikers miss easy chances, and you go on to lose a game through an error by the keeper, then the blame goes to the keeper. Keepers are prone to making errors, its part and parcel of being one. Lay off Robbo, he is a Rover and this is a team sport so if he makes a mistake then at least encourage and show him your full support despite his errors.

[tony gale's mic]

Since mid-November when VDS started his run, Robbo has the second worst saves to goals ratio in the league, just ahead of Boaz Myhill of Hull. The pair of them are some way behind the rest of the goalkeepers in the league.

I don't actually think that means he's the second worst keeper in the league, but it's sure as hell a very interesting stat. He's definitely not the best we could've hoped for, far from it.

[riverside returns]

In defence of Robinson and to highlight useless sniping, a recent match between Hull and Villa, it was only because the referee got two decisions horrendously wrong that Big Brad was let off with two mistakes and Villa claimed the points. In similar circumstances this season, Robinson has not had the backing of the referees. On the Sunderland goal, I do not think that even Brad would have got anywhere near that strike, it was not a traditional 1 v 1 it was hit from the edge of the area, across the face of the keeper into the far corner, that in actual fact was text book shooting from an exceedingly good instinctive striker. Robinson had absolutely no chance unless he could extend his arms an extre 2 feet. He is beginning to come out of an awful period, at first low on confidence due to the England and Spurs problems and then into a team that was conceding for fun!

Lets all give him out full backing and am sure given time, he will be an excellent signing and player for us!

[JAL]

Since mid-November when VDS started his run, Robbo has the second worst saves to goals ratio in the league, just ahead of Boaz Myhill of Hull. The pair of them are some way behind the rest of the goalkeepers in the league.

I don't actually think that means he's the second worst keeper in the league, but it's sure as hell a very interesting stat. He's definitely not the best we could've hoped for, far from it.

Good point very interesting though i'm suprised that donkey Scot Carson isnt bottom of the premiership goalkeeping pile.

[tony gale's mic]

Good point very interesting though i'm suprised that donkey Scot Carson isnt bottom of the premiership goalkeeping pile.

Carson's conceded 23 goals and made 52 saves.

Robbo's conceded 16 goals and made just 20 saves.

Myhill has 27 a piece.

For comparison, Brad has conceded just 8 and made 37 saves. Still a class act.

[waggy]

On an unrelated note I'm glad Sam has brought back Pedersens long throw tactic, it may not be pretty but it certainly is a threat and gives us a good option against any side.

just like lotnob,you'll soon be bored

[thenodrog]

Still a quality keeper that we judge unfairly because of the world class one we had before.

That says it all really. Just as we destroyed the confidence of a very promising young player by foolishly trying to compare Kevin Davies with Alan Shearer. We'll find it near impossible to stumble across the likes of Brad and Shearer again and we need to see that and try not to be so judgemental.

[thenodrog]

just like lotnob,you'll soon be bored

All good managers instruct their teams to play to their strengths whatever they are.

We don't have Roy Race to rescue us in the 90th minute every game you know.

[philipl]

Wow, that's an interesting statistic.

One above Van der Sar (who has set new records this season), if that isn't testament that what an outstanding job Sam has done in such a short space of time then I don't know what is.

Absolutely spot on- an amazing turnaround when you consider what we saw at Wigan, just a week before we started this run!

Modes also calls it right re watching Robinson after Friedel. Which set me in mind of remembering what a truly average keeper big Brad was at the age Robbo is now. Remember Brad's flaps at Liverpool (where he was following a phenomenem in Grobelaar)?

[The Gull]

Stats can tell you whatever you want them to tell you.

Good goalkeepers in good teams do not make a lot of saves as they have good defenders in front of them so that can skew these stats plus all the goalkeepers would have faced different teams, you are bound to have more saves against someone like Chelsea or Man Ure as they have more creative and direct players.

He has been part of defence that has kept more clean sheets in the last 2 months than we had for the rest of the season and it shows that teams are having to work really hard to even got a shot on his goal.

[tony gale's mic]

Stats can tell you whatever you want them to tell you.

Good goalkeepers in good teams do not make a lot of saves as they have good defenders in front of them so that can skew these stats plus all the goalkeepers would have faced different teams, you are bound to have more saves against someone like Chelsea or Man Ure as they have more creative and direct players.

He has been part of defence that has kept more clean sheets in the last 2 months than we had for the rest of the season and it shows that teams are having to work really hard to even got a shot on his goal.

True, those figures put the defence in a good light but the fact is that he's only saving a few more than he actually lets in. Is the quality of shots on goal against Rovers somehow mysteriously much higher than all the other teams? Stats can be misleading, and I don't think he's the second worst in the league as those figures suggest. But there has to be a reason for the following figures (since mid November):

If the Sky figures are right then the % of shots on goal saved are:

Carson 76%

Gomes 75%

Hart 73%

Turnbull 70%

Sorensen 67%

Robinson 55%

I deliberately haven't put the likes of Cech, Friedel etc in there as that would be an unfair comparison....I've instead compared him with a few other pretty ordinary keepers. But why is there such a gulf? A lot of the time stats can be misleading but usually you can name reasons why - here there's no logical explanation. We've all played around 12 games in this time so have got a good mix of opposition strikers, but the other keepers are able to save more. This backs up my point that he just doesn't produce enough quality games and quality saves where he wins us points, like Jones did last weekend and like Gordon would've done on Wednesday had it been a 90 minute league game.

Had his figures been upto Turnbull's standards then we would've conceded 5 fewer goals and given the amount of draws we've had recently that would probably have translated into points.

[Majiball]

Forget Robbo's stat's prior to Sam's arrival, you couldn't say a good word about anyone in our team at one stage.

Hows he done since Sam took over would be of far more interest.

[cn174]

Had his figures been upto Turnbull's standards then we would've conceded 5 fewer goals and given the amount of draws we've had recently that would probably have translated into points.

Maybe, but given that three of those draws (Sunderland twice and Boro) were 0-0, him making extra saves wouldn't have meant we'd get the win.

[thenodrog]

Forget Robbo's stat's prior to Sam's arrival, you couldn't say a good word about anyone in our team at one stage.

Hows he done since Sam took over would be of far more interest.

Indeed. Thats the confidence aspect again.

[Iceman]

Do we always have to find some fault in every player? Nobody is perfect, and Robbo makes mistakes. We cant compare Robbo with Friedel, and the same happened when Shearer left where those following in his footsteps were criticised for everything. If Robbo does a superb job for us, the next keeper to follow him i have no doubts will be criticised if he makes mistakes.

[tony gale's mic]

Forget Robbo's stat's prior to Sam's arrival, you couldn't say a good word about anyone in our team at one stage.

Hows he done since Sam took over would be of far more interest.

Well that's a mix of both reigns since it's from mid November, but I'd say it doesn't matter as much with the keeper - your job is to stop goals. Most of those other keepers have been playing in poor teams - West Brom, Stoke, Spurs etc. Boro haven't won once for the duration of those stats yet Turnbull has been performing much better, so I'd say it's not all that relevant.

Do we always have to find some fault in every player? Nobody is perfect, and Robbo makes mistakes. We cant compare Robbo with Friedel, and the same happened when Shearer left where those following in his footsteps were criticised for everything. If Robbo does a superb job for us, the next keeper to follow him i have no doubts will be criticised if he makes mistakes.

I'm comparing him with the likes of Turnbull, Gomes and Sorensen.

[Majiball]

Indeed. Thats the confidence aspect again.

20% of performance.

Well that's a mix of both reigns since it's from mid November, but I'd say it doesn't matter as much with the keeper - your job is to stop goals. Most of those other keepers have been playing in poor teams - West Brom, Stoke, Spurs etc. Boro haven't won once for the duration of those stats yet Turnbull has been performing much better, so I'd say it's not all that relevant.

how long has turnbull played with those players? and Robbo with ours? trying to build a relationship between the GK and back four takes time. So whilst attempting to do it he's playing behind one of the worst back fours in the country (at the time). How many goals have we shipped since sam came in?

EDIT: I believe its 5 in 9 for Robbo at present, thats good enough for me.

I'm judging our new players from now, lets see what sam can get out of them.

[tony gale's mic]

20% of performance.

how long has turnbull played with those players? and Robbo with ours? trying to build a relationship between the GK and back four takes time. So whilst attempting to do it he's playing behind one of the worst back fours in the country (at the time). How many goals have we shipped since sam came in?

EDIT: I believe its 5 in 9 for Robbo at present, thats good enough for me.

I'm judging our new players from now, lets see what sam can get out of them.

Over half those games have been under Sam. The defence aspect matters more on things like crosses, coming for balls, communication etc. When it comes to pure shot stopping, which this is a measure of, then that point becomes a lot less relevant. The clean sheets is largely down to the defence, as can be shown by the fact he's had the second least amount of saves to make.

Turnbull has had exactly the same amount of time to play with these players, this is his first season where he's been a regular behind the sticks, last season he was out on loan. So have Carson, Gomes and Sorensen.

Like I said, there's no logical explanation for those statistics other than that Robinson isn't as good as some folk think he is.

[JAL]

Over half those games have been under Sam. The defence aspect matters more on things like crosses, coming for balls, communication etc. When it comes to pure shot stopping, which this is a measure of, then that point becomes a lot less relevant. The clean sheets is largely down to the defence, as can be shown by the fact he's had the second least amount of saves to make.

Turnbull has had exactly the same amount of time to play with these players, this is his first season where he's been a regular behind the sticks, last season he was out on loan. So have Carson, Gomes and Sorensen.

Like I said, there's no logical explanation for those statistics other than that Robinson isn't as good as some folk think he is.

Excellent stuff 'tony gales mic', you lay bare Paul Robinson with those stats the team are most definitley covering him up making him look better than he really is.

[riverside returns]

It seems that some cannot see the wood for the trees, the save to goal ratio of course is purely dependant upon the attac actually shooting, I would tend to suggest that our defence are managing to block a whole lot more shots now and therefore unless they are unstoppable, which quite frankly, they have been since Sam took over, thenthe figures are not really accurate in terms of a goalkeepers ability. We have not conceded that many since Sam took over.

[Majiball]

Ross Turnbull is 24 and a product of Middlesbourgh's academy he's been out on loan a fair bit but I'll hazard a guess the amount of time he has been training with Middlesbourgh's first team far eclipses Robinson's 6 months. Turnbulls also been progressing nicely his confidence will be high, you can't say the same for Paul.

Robbo is obviously a confidence player, he came to us after a bad run and it continued it may even have been worse. Sam is a motivator he'll help raise Robbo's game, our defence is solid at present & Robbo is part of that defence he deserves credit.

Winterburn was the man charged with bringing co-hesion to our defence no-wonder Robbo's stats are poor. He would be the one training the defensive unit.

you also have to comment that his stats are comparable to Van der Sar's apply the same logic there, hes a top keeper.

Robbo's looked more assured since Sam came in, and as any new man would say "the slat's clean lads", we need to do the same.

You have to throw all of Inces rein out the window everyone was equally poor, no one takes any credit.

The other option is simple we wave our magic wand and wish for the 10M+ it would cost to sign a keeper in the same bracket as Friedel. We have far more pressing issues transfer wise than replacing a man once deemed worthy of 41 england caps, and young enough to gain a lot more. If I spent the last 18 months or so being berated constantly in the national press and by my own fans I think I to would struggle to get back to my level quickly.

[tony gale's mic]

It seems that some cannot see the wood for the trees, the save to goal ratio of course is purely dependant upon the attac actually shooting, I would tend to suggest that our defence are managing to block a whole lot more shots now and therefore unless they are unstoppable, which quite frankly, they have been since Sam took over, thenthe figures are not really accurate in terms of a goalkeepers ability. We have not conceded that many since Sam took over.

So the attack haven't had that many shots on goal but yet Robinson has still managed to concede quite a lot in that time?

These stats are VERY accurate in terms of how good a keeper is at stopping shots. Sure it can't telll you how good he is at crosses etc, but that's a different issue. Doesn't matter that much who the manager is or how the team have been playing, all of those keepers have been playing in poor teams that entire time.