[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[tony gale's mic]

Ross Turnbull is 24 and a product of Middlesbourgh's academy he's been out on loan a fair bit but I'll hazard a guess the amount of time he has been training with Middlesbourgh's first team far eclipses Robinson's 6 months. Turnbulls also been progressing nicely his confidence will be high, you can't say the same for Paul.

Robbo is obviously a confidence player, he came to us after a bad run and it continued it may even have been worse. Sam is a motivator he'll help raise Robbo's game, our defence is solid at present & Robbo is part of that defence he deserves credit.

Winterburn was the man charged with bringing co-hesion to our defence no-wonder Robbo's stats are poor. He would be the one training the defensive unit.

you also have to comment that his stats are comparable to Van der Sar's apply the same logic there, hes a top keeper.

Robbo's looked more assured since Sam came in, and as any new man would say "the slat's clean lads", we need to do the same.

You have to throw all of Inces rein out the window everyone was equally poor, no one takes any credit.

The other option is simple we wave our magic wand and wish for the 10M+ it would cost to sign a keeper in the same bracket as Friedel. We have far more pressing issues transfer wise than replacing a man once deemed worthy of 41 england caps, and young enough to gain a lot more. If I spent the last 18 months or so being berated constantly in the national press and by my own fans I think I to would struggle to get back to my level quickly.

Sorry but most of that post makes no sense.

Turnbull still hardly had any first team games last season. Gomes, Sorensen and Carson all came in from other teams too. And you'd hope that Robbo would be performing better than some unknown from Boro's academy, which hasn't been the case.

Winterburn coached the defensive unit, not the goalkeepers. As I said, things like communication, coming for crosses etc may come under that remit since it involves the defence, but stopping shots had naff all to do with Winterburn. I don't believe in this Ince thing, otherwise why would these players in similarly poor teams have been performing so much better? Why has Turnbull been performing better in a side which hasn't won at all in that time?

And that VDS thing you mentioned is a little bewildering. VDS hasn't conceded any goals since mid November and has saved 100% of all shots on goal - the best in the league. Robinson has made two more saves but has had a lot more opportunities to make these saves and has saved 55% of all shots on goal - the second worst in the league. How are these stats similar?

IF he raises his level of performance from now on then I'll be the first to applaud, but based on this season he hasn't been great and we could and should have bought better even with that money.

[USABlue]

I know the current topic here is keepers but just to swing things back to Allardyce. One thing I have noticed since BFS came on board is the increased TV coverage on Rovers over here. It seems Sam is always on interviewing, I like it but I was wondering why this is. I did also notice when he was at Bolton he got a lot of air time, so disproportionate to coverage of Rovers at the same time although our fortunes were similar.

Is there a reason I am not aware of that makes Sam so attractive to the media?

[The Prof.]

Disagree, Robbo is very good 1 on 1. His weakness for me is hard hit low shots, he seems to get into the save position a fraction late, which costs goals.

Still a quality keeper that we judge unfairly because of the world class one we had before.

I think he's okay at low shots but think he can't catch. funny how everyone has a different opinion of him isn't it?

[broadsword]

I thought Jason Brown did a good job when he came in. Just because robinson was a "big name" didn't mean that we had to sign him.

[The Prof.]

As you say, in order for him to win us games he needs games where he can make a difference, i.e where the opposition actually creates chances.

You can see some interesting stats here. In the run of games during which Van der Sar set his clean sheet record, he had the fewest shots against him of all PL keepers (19). Second fewest? Robinson (20). Sadly not many of our recent games have been shown here in Sweden (The game tomorrow is live though) so I can't comment on his recent performances really, but we've got a good defensive record so not much criticism can be levelled at him really.

Robinson obviously has a lot of ability, and now that he must surely be high on confidence after a run of clean sheets I'm sure that'll show.

What a great stat. list!

In defence of Robinson and to highlight useless sniping, a recent match between Hull and Villa, it was only because the referee got two decisions horrendously wrong that Big Brad was let off with two mistakes and Villa claimed the points. In similar circumstances this season, Robinson has not had the backing of the referees. On the Sunderland goal, I do not think that even Brad would have got anywhere near that strike, it was not a traditional 1 v 1 it was hit from the edge of the area, across the face of the keeper into the far corner, that in actual fact was text book shooting from an exceedingly good instinctive striker. Robinson had absolutely no chance unless he could extend his arms an extre 2 feet. He is beginning to come out of an awful period, at first low on confidence due to the England and Spurs problems and then into a team that was conceding for fun!

Lets all give him out full backing and am sure given time, he will be an excellent signing and player for us!

We should not have to give an England keeper on 30 grand a week time - we don't have any time.

[joey_big_nose]

I thought Jason Brown did a good job when he came in. Just because robinson was a "big name" didn't mean that we had to sign him.

I think Jason is always up against it due to his size. He would be the smallest keeper in the Prem by a distance I think. On set pieces he is going to struggle against large centre forwards.

Bunn on the other hand looks like a very good prospect. It should be interesting to see how he does as Robinson is relatively injury prone for a keeper so he will get a chance.

[Iceman]

Really, what does it matter if his a bit shaky? At the end of the day we doing well, we not conceding silly goals and we no longer sloppy at the back. When we not doing well we moan and when we doing well we moan. Oh wait, we are Rovers supporters so we should moan. Robbo will be England's number 1 again!

[Majiball]

Robinson

Blackburn

11

20

1.82

55%

Van der Sar

Manchester Utd

12

19

1.58

63%

No similarities there then, same stats you used for Robbo's 55% say VDS has 63%..

55% 100% 100000% to be honest all I care about with a keeper (obvioulsy there are others but its the most important) is goals conceded. Strikers are first judged on goals scored then the rest I see keepers the same way.

Wow, that's an interesting statistic.

One above Van der Sar (who has set new records this season), if that isn't testament that what an outstanding job Sam has done in such a short space of time then I don't know what is.

Someone else sees the same.

Sorry but most of that post makes no sense.

Turnbull still hardly had any first team games last season. Gomes, Sorensen and Carson all came in from other teams too. And you'd hope that Robbo would be performing better than some unknown from Boro's academy, which hasn't been the case.

Winterburn coached the defensive unit, not the goalkeepers. As I said, things like communication, coming for crosses etc may come under that remit since it involves the defence, but stopping shots had naff all to do with Winterburn. I don't believe in this Ince thing, otherwise why would these players in similarly poor teams have been performing so much better? Why has Turnbull been performing better in a side which hasn't won at all in that time?

And that VDS thing you mentioned is a little bewildering. VDS hasn't conceded any goals since mid November and has saved 100% of all shots on goal - the best in the league. Robinson has made two more saves but has had a lot more opportunities to make these saves and has saved 55% of all shots on goal - the second worst in the league. How are these stats similar?

IF he raises his level of performance from now on then I'll be the first to applaud, but based on this season he hasn't been great and we could and should have bought better even with that money.

I'm sorry if I spend time training with other players I learn about their game, their habits, their likes and dislikes. Turnbull has been training with the first team since his loan contract with Cardiff was cancelled in November 2007. thats almost a full season more than paul with the defence. Turnbull will spend time training with the first choice back four its a situation that could quite possibly occur and as such any self-respecting coach would have practiced it. After that lenght of time Turnbull should have a strong relationship with his back four. Gomes has made far more errors than Paul, Carson no blunders there, I'm sorry Robbo's better than the lot of them on current form.

Robbo under Sam.

7 in 10 (Sams only ten games)

Robbo under Ince

22 in 10 (inces last ten games)

So given that winterburn has gone back to the drawing board and Mimms is still coaching Robbo is it not fair to say that perhaps Winterburn was an issue. 2.2 goals a game with him and 0.7 without him.

Its a significant improvement, as I said judge him under a man who instills confidence in his players, not one thats sucks it out of them. Robbo needs his confidence raising he needs to believe in himself again, Sam can do it but Sams only had him for 2 months give him a bit longer and he'll be fine.

Robbo is not in Brads clase reflexes wise, but most aren't. I don't seem to remember many saying that when he was at leeds and intially at Spurs. Steele was a huge lose to us more than most can imagine, he made Robbo he could have re-made him.

[tony gale's mic]

Some of you people need to learn how to read basic stats.

That's the amount of SAVES they've made. VDS is bottom of that pile, he's made the LEAST amount of SAVES in that time (but obviously has conceded no goals either). Those stats you're comparing are saves per game, so Robbo and VDS have made the least amount of saves in the league per game over those 11/12 games.

Only VDS has conceded 0 goals in that time, whereas Robbo conceded 16. So while VDS is keeping out every shot he's faced, Robbo is keeping out just over half. 17 Premier League keepers stand between them on this one, with only Myhill below Robinson.

Their stats are polar opposites, not remotely similar and to suggest otherwise it's just wrong. It's not even an opinion issue on this one.

People focus on blunders because that's what takes the headlines, but really if Robinson makes 8 wonder saves and 3 very public blunders, then that's a much better return than having 0 of each. A similar thing has been happening to Gomes at Spurs - he's actually a very good keeper and even in that game at West Brom where he made that shocking error he pulled off a string of world class saves to keep them in the game...something I can't remember Robbo doing for us much this season. Tell me...when was the last error that Gomes made? As I'm pretty sure he hasn't made a proper error since around mid-November...similarish time to when Robbo cost us the points vs Sunderland. I can't recall that many errors that Carson's made for West Brom of late either. Both have been better than Robbo for me.

Your goals conceded point is again fairly irrelevant, he's been facing fewer shots as that table highlighted. That's largely been thanks to the work of the defence and the organisation of the team, can you name a game during Sam's reign where he's played a starring role or won us points himself? Or even during Ince's tenure, for that matter...He's barely been tested since Sam's been at the club.

Like I've stated repeatedly, coming for crosses, communication etc, that sort of thing can maybe change with a new coaching team. Shot stopping rarely does. He's behind most of the league on that respect.

[Mr. E]

Robinson hasn't made Capello's squad, and even Man City's reserve keeper Joe Hart has made the cut above him. Says it all IMO.

[DanLad]

Robinson hasn't made Capello's squad, and even Man City's reserve keeper Joe Hart has made the cut above him. Says it all IMO.

This isn't a thread about Robbo, but...

...what does it say?

Cappello clueless?

Robbo poor?

Hart a prospect?

England game an irrelevance?

Man City a big club?

Doesn't clearly say anything, does it?

[JAL]

Some of you people need to learn how to read basic stats.

That's the amount of SAVES they've made. VDS is bottom of that pile, he's made the LEAST amount of SAVES in that time (but obviously has conceded no goals either). Those stats you're comparing are saves per game, so Robbo and VDS have made the least amount of saves in the league per game over those 11/12 games.

Only VDS has conceded 0 goals in that time, whereas Robbo conceded 16. So while VDS is keeping out every shot he's faced, Robbo is keeping out just over half. 17 Premier League keepers stand between them on this one, with only Myhill below Robinson.

Their stats are polar opposites, not remotely similar and to suggest otherwise it's just wrong. It's not even an opinion issue on this one.

People focus on blunders because that's what takes the headlines, but really if Robinson makes 8 wonder saves and 3 very public blunders, then that's a much better return than having 0 of each. A similar thing has been happening to Gomes at Spurs - he's actually a very good keeper and even in that game at West Brom where he made that shocking error he pulled off a string of world class saves to keep them in the game...something I can't remember Robbo doing for us much this season. Tell me...when was the last error that Gomes made? As I'm pretty sure he hasn't made a proper error since around mid-November...similarish time to when Robbo cost us the points vs Sunderland. I can't recall that many errors that Carson's made for West Brom of late either. Both have been better than Robbo for me.

Your goals conceded point is again fairly irrelevant, he's been facing fewer shots as that table highlighted. That's largely been thanks to the work of the defence and the organisation of the team, can you name a game during Sam's reign where he's played a starring role or won us points himself? Or even during Ince's tenure, for that matter...He's barely been tested since Sam's been at the club.

Like I've stated repeatedly, coming for crosses, communication etc, that sort of thing can maybe change with a new coaching team. Shot stopping rarely does. He's behind most of the league on that respect.

Some good stuff there 'tony gale's mic' but lets get to the point draw to the conclusion HES RUBBISH !!!!!

Just another muppet Ince signing.

[Tris]

Stats can tell you whatever you want them to tell you

Some of you people need to learn how to read basic stats

Is this the place for stats?? Wow, who would have thought it.

INCE first 7 PL games - WDLLWWL - 10 points

ALLY first 7 PL games - WDDDDL - 10 points

INCE gained those 10 points against 2 of the "big 4"

INCE gained those 10 points against 5 of the current top half

The two other games were against Hull and Newcastle, who were both on fine form at the time of playing them

ALLY gained those 10 points against 0 of the "big 4"

ALLY gained those 10 points against 2 of the current top half

The five other games were against Stoke, Sunderland, Newcastle, Bolton and Mboro - all direct rivals for the drop at the time of playing them

CUPS - Ince beat Grimsby and Everton and would go on to beat Sunderland and lose to Man Utd

CUPS - Ally beat Blyth and Sunderland (after 210 mins) and needs to go on and beat Coventry to reach the last 8

THE FUTURE - In the next 6 PL games Ally will face 5 top half teams (inc Man Utd and Arse) the only exception being Hull, who were top half until last week

Do Carlsberg do Honeymoon Periods??

[tony gale's mic]

Tris I thought you had me on block? What a pleasant surprise

You forget one crucial factor. Ince took over a side who had just finished 7th in the league. Allardyce took over a side which was 5 points adrift from safety.

Ince's charges had just lost 7 on the bounce. Do you honestly think Ince would have suddenly turned it round had he been given more time to the extent where he'd be unbeaten in 6? During that run of seven losses we played Spurs, Portsmouth, Wigan and Sunderland and still lost! So to claim that Ince would've either won or even drawn those matches (that we should've won was it not for our profligacy) is typical of the kind of crap you spout on here on a regular basis.

Big Sam made some big errors today. But our defence has gone from being the worst in the league at over 2 goals per game conceded under Ince, to 6 goals conceded in 7 games under Allardyce. Or maybe that's a total coincidence too?

[beerwins]

Would never vouch for anybody being sacked, but ince was kept too long, sam is gonna struggle to get us outa this one, is sam gonna be in trouble if we go down , i would hate to think so , im sure the lack of spending in the window really means to me that the board is saving money for a championship ass kicking team, i hope so because if sam really does think he can survive with this squad then someone really has poisened his meat pie!

[Tris]

Tris I thought you had me on block?

Correct - since November. Unfortunately when someone quotes you in a reply, the guff you spout still ends up on my screen.

to claim that Ince would've either won or even drawn those matches

Where have I claimed that? I just posted a simple 7 match v 7 match comparison. Any "claims" have come from somewhere else.

[RevidgeBlue]

You forget one crucial factor. Ince took over a side who had just finished 7th in the league. Allardyce took over a side which was 5 points adrift from safety.

Same set of players, Bentley and Friedel excluded.

You can't say on the one hand they were good when Ince had them, but by the same token poor just 5 months later by the time Sam took over!

Although, as it's you, I'm sure you'll have a bloody good try.

[awhom111]

I know the current topic here is keepers but just to swing things back to Allardyce. One thing I have noticed since BFS came on board is the increased TV coverage on Rovers over here. It seems Sam is always on interviewing, I like it but I was wondering why this is. I did also notice when he was at Bolton he got a lot of air time, so disproportionate to coverage of Rovers at the same time although our fortunes were similar.

Is there a reason I am not aware of that makes Sam so attractive to the media?

Shocking that you would post something that only has to do with Sam on his thread.

[AggyBlue]

You can't say on the one hand they were good when Ince had them, but by the same token poor just 5 months later by the time Sam took over!

But you could say their confidence was shot to pieces by the time Sam took over and as James Milner said on MoD last night 'Confidence is everything to a footballer'

[philipl]

Ince then took 3 points from the next 10. IF Allardyce does that for us we all know where we are going!

The point about respective inheritances is the key one. There is no doubt that Ince not only destroyed his training and coaching inheritance but his transfer activity significantly weakened the squad (not going to re-rehearse the arguments about Andrews and Grella here).

Sam on the otherhand picked up a demoralised disorganised shambles.

Briefly returning to Robinson, the attempt which lead to Heskey's disallowed goal was awful but both the goals that went past him yesterday were deflected. There is no way Milner's shot could have hit the net where it did and evaded MGP's attempted headed block if it had gone direct from where he struck it and there is a replay angle which shows it taking a decisve nick on its way in- it was going wide otherwise.

[Majiball]

Some of you people need to learn how to read basic stats.

That's the amount of SAVES they've made. VDS is bottom of that pile, he's made the LEAST amount of SAVES in that time (but obviously has conceded no goals either). Those stats you're comparing are saves per game, so Robbo and VDS have made the least amount of saves in the league per game over those 11/12 games.

Only VDS has conceded 0 goals in that time, whereas Robbo conceded 16. So while VDS is keeping out every shot he's faced, Robbo is keeping out just over half. 17 Premier League keepers stand between them on this one, with only Myhill below Robinson.

Their stats are polar opposites, not remotely similar and to suggest otherwise it's just wrong. It's not even an opinion issue on this one.

People focus on blunders because that's what takes the headlines, but really if Robinson makes 8 wonder saves and 3 very public blunders, then that's a much better return than having 0 of each. A similar thing has been happening to Gomes at Spurs - he's actually a very good keeper and even in that game at West Brom where he made that shocking error he pulled off a string of world class saves to keep them in the game...something I can't remember Robbo doing for us much this season. Tell me...when was the last error that Gomes made? As I'm pretty sure he hasn't made a proper error since around mid-November...similarish time to when Robbo cost us the points vs Sunderland. I can't recall that many errors that Carson's made for West Brom of late either. Both have been better than Robbo for me.

Your goals conceded point is again fairly irrelevant, he's been facing fewer shots as that table highlighted. That's largely been thanks to the work of the defence and the organisation of the team, can you name a game during Sam's reign where he's played a starring role or won us points himself? Or even during Ince's tenure, for that matter...He's barely been tested since Sam's been at the club.

Like I've stated repeatedly, coming for crosses, communication etc, that sort of thing can maybe change with a new coaching team. Shot stopping rarely does. He's behind most of the league on that respect.

Low number of saves means the defensive unit (goalkeeper included) are working better. If you don't consider the keeper a key part of that unit thats fine, I'll keep training it the way I've watched the best do it, with the keeper.

I was always brought up to be told a keeper should be able to eat his lunch during a game.

Reflexes can be enhanced (to a degree), starting position helps, I think Steele had figured out Robbo and Robbo's forgotten. I notice your only using Robbo with us remember Leeds, Spurs intially Thats what Robbo is capable of. He is a good keeper he just needs to believe in himself again. I honestly think you can't get your head round what sort of abuse he took, from england and spurs. Can you imagine reading about them everywhere, being heckled on the streets about it, having 40,000 boo you every game for over a year. No I'd be fine after that ever had a period in your life when no matter what it goes wrong? Sports are about confidence, self belief, Robbo's forgotten what its like, Sam can put it back in him.

No it does not matter how many goals a keeper concedes, again you say its down to the defensive unit which Robbo is part of but yet he gets no credit. I say he's a part of it and as they've cut 1.3 goals a game off our goals conceded per game ratio then Robbo must have made some positive contribution.

You see a crap player and I see a good player low on confidence (if you think his will have gone up after Ince being in charge then I despair) I see a player down on his luck who needs to be built up again, Mmm how Rovers. We always take players down on there luck/injuries and look to re-build them, why should we not with Robbo?

Robbo is our keeper he's the best we have and we can't get a new one, he obviously thrives on confidence and who better than us the fans to give it back to him. Imagine if he hears his name being chanted in a positive light?? 41 england caps every crap player and his dog has those don't they, how many different managers chose him. Why can't you just see him for what he is a player who needs to be given his belief back as oppossed to a lesser version of Friedel.

[LeChuck]

I was always brought up to be told a keeper should be able to eat his lunch during a game.

Ah, a graduate from the 'Neville Southall school of goalkeeping and culinary excellence' I see.

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

Low number of saves means the defensive unit (goalkeeper included) are working better. If you don't consider the keeper a key part of that unit thats fine, I'll keep training it the way I've watched the best do it, with the keeper.

I was always brought up to be told a keeper should be able to eat his lunch during a game.

Reflexes can be enhanced (to a degree), starting position helps, I think Steele had figured out Robbo and Robbo's forgotten. I notice your only using Robbo with us remember Leeds, Spurs intially Thats what Robbo is capable of. He is a good keeper he just needs to believe in himself again. I honestly think you can't get your head round what sort of abuse he took, from england and spurs. Can you imagine reading about them everywhere, being heckled on the streets about it, having 40,000 boo you every game for over a year. No I'd be fine after that ever had a period in your life when no matter what it goes wrong? Sports are about confidence, self belief, Robbo's forgotten what its like, Sam can put it back in him.

No it does not matter how many goals a keeper concedes, again you say its down to the defensive unit which Robbo is part of but yet he gets no credit. I say he's a part of it and as they've cut 1.3 goals a game off our goals conceded per game ratio then Robbo must have made some positive contribution.

You see a crap player and I see a good player low on confidence (if you think his will have gone up after Ince being in charge then I despair) I see a player down on his luck who needs to be built up again, Mmm how Rovers. We always take players down on there luck/injuries and look to re-build them, why should we not with Robbo?

Robbo is our keeper he's the best we have and we can't get a new one, he obviously thrives on confidence and who better than us the fans to give it back to him. Imagine if he hears his name being chanted in a positive light?? 41 england caps every crap player and his dog has those don't they, how many different managers chose him. Why can't you just see him for what he is a player who needs to be given his belief back as oppossed to a lesser version of Friedel.

A good post. Agree entirely.

[RevidgeBlue]

On the Robinson thing, Brad looked imposing stood in his area but was only called upon to do a couple of things and made a complete hash of them both imo, flapping at a couple of crosses.

[JAL]

On the Robinson thing, Brad looked imposing stood in his area but was only called upon to do a couple of things and made a complete hash of them both imo, flapping at a couple of crosses.

Second half,

Sat in line with the six yard line when a Rovers player headed over the bar preventing a certain goal from a corner which was headed back by a Villa player, Robbo was all over the place, he came, he stopped, went back a yard, went forward another, totally all at sea in his own six yard box, that Rovers defender certainly saved Robbo from embarrassment.