[Archived] Sam Allardyce

[T4E]

That's all in the past and we should have all moved onwards and upwards from this.

What explaining has JW to do? He has already admitted that things didn't work out under Ince but had the bottle to change it..hopefully in time to prevent a catastrophy.

My previous post illustrates how different things could have been had Williams made the correct decision in the Summer. Things could even have been dramatically different if he'd acted sooner when it was obvious to all that Ince hadn't a clue. Even if we survive, his decisions will have cost the club millions in lost place prize money. If we don't survive, by his own admission the financial implications could be terminal.

Williams must carry the can. If he cannot adequately explain his decision making processes then he should go.

[Blue blood]

Anyone getting at Big Sam needs to get real.

Truth be told I'd prefer it if we were waltzing up the league playing football like brazil and winning games by 3 or 4 goals. But that was never going to happen - and criticizing Sam for not achieving that / or playing in a style more akin to that is simply being unrealistic.

People forget how bad we were under Ince, pretty much from the off we were awful. I thought I'd never see a worse performance than the utter abject surrender to Arsenal at home this season, Wigan away proved me wrong. Just making us hard to beat was a huge step forwards. Catching up with the packl was also a massive step forwards. Winning games and getting out of the relegation zone already are bonuses. We weren't doing a derby but as time went on we were looking more and more like that was a possibility.

IF in 12 months time, after another 2 transfer windows we are not either winning games convincingly more often, or playing a more attractive type of football, there would be cause for complaint. But let Sam get HIS team in place, and HIS set up, then we can have higher expectations of him.

[Blue n White Rover]

My previous post illustrates how different things could have been had Williams made the correct decision in the Summer. Things could even have been dramatically different if he'd acted sooner when it was obvious to all that Ince hadn't a clue. Even if we survive, his decisions will have cost the club millions in lost place prize money. If we don't survive, by his own admission the financial implications could be terminal.

Williams must carry the can. If he cannot adequately explain his decision making processes then he should go.

Who said? I'm aiming for a top ten finish , nothing better than an optimist eh

Win our nect 2 home games VS West Ham and Spurs, and hopefully, we should be home and dry.

Big Sam's done brilliant in his short spell so far. His real test comes next season though, where not only will he have to keep us in the league, but make us finish in a respectable position.

Interesting times ahead!

[patrickvalery]

Williams must carry the can. If he cannot adequately explain his decision making processes then he should go.

I sincerely hope that was tongue in cheek? The one man i would want as a main stay is Williams.

[Hughesy]

The board planned for mid table - which im sure they would budget between 10-12th.

That is still a realistic posibility now, especially if we go on a good run.

Imagine if we could fluke a win at Arsenal!!

[T4E]

I sincerely hope that was tongue in cheek? The one man i would want as a main stay is Williams.

Not tongue in cheek in the slightest. His decisions in the last 9 months have put us in perilous danger.

[Hughesy]

He also stopped sam from spending £5m on Bullard the crock.

He also had the balls to sack the manager despite the press claiming we should give him more time.

[USABlue]

Serious questions need to be asked as to how we came to choose Ince over Allardyce in the Summer. John Williams has some explaining to do.

Did you forget the fans furor over the very suggestion of Allardyce? I think if you think back to fan reaction that is all the explanation needed.

Williams must carry the can. If he cannot adequately explain his decision making processes then he should go.

He has, he made a mistake and has rectified it. Explained.

Not tongue in cheek in the slightest. His decisions in the last 9 months have put us in perilous danger.

Decisions over the last several years have kept us in the top flight, not just surviving either, doing very very well. Finish up grinding your axe and move on, if we go down fair enough, till then put the hone away.

[thenodrog]

We might have sold if the price, the replacements etc had been good enough. Nobody apart from those involved in any deals really knows any more than that. some know bits but the true whole picture is presumably known only to the chairman, the manager and those in on any negotiations. I don't think it was only the time element that influenced it although the longer it went on the less likely it was to be possible to replace him.

I understand that City bid 25m for RSC on the last day or so of the Jan window ......... over 3 years! Richest club in the world? Money club? Big time Charlies more like. BRFC rightly told em to forget it.

[thenodrog]

I find it sad that the Premier League is declining into a hoof-fest...aside from the aristocrats of the Champs League.

Inevitable legacy of said Champions league. It's an awful situation that has seen every european country emulate Scottish and Spanish football where just 2 or 3 clubs dominate and likely will dominate forever..... unless somebody like Platini gets his way and smashes the whole thing to smithereens. Somehow I suspect he'll likely perish in a car crash first.

[thenodrog]

Still don't see what the problem is.

He's made you hard to beat especially away from home, stopped you shedding loads of goals which was the main problem under Ince and you've gained plenty of points against bottom half teams to suggest you won't get relegated.

He's been in charge for what 12 games now in the league and in that time you've lost at home to one of the best away teams in the prem (us) and at Manure where you should've got a point at least.

He knows what he's doing, Bolton in the top 10 most seasons wasn't a fluke and you'll be back up there next season once he's allowed to bring in more of his own players.

Oi! Who do you think you are? You can't come on here talking sense..... you'll upset the natives!

[thenodrog]

Ince's record

P17 W3 D4 L10 F17 A34 Pts13 -

Includes defeats by Sunderland, Wigan & Pompey.

Sams Record so far

P11 W4 D5 L2 F15 A10 Pts17 -

Just 2 defeats against United & Villa

Says it all really. Just a shame we didnt push Ince out abit earlier.

17 bloody games earlier!

There is simply no excuse for John Williams ever appointing that jerk. They say that pencils have rubbers on the end cos everybody makes mistakes BUT to think that Williams wanted to give Ince even more time is very very worrying imo. I think the man needs to give some bloody good answers come summer.

[thenodrog]

Ince's record

P17 W3 D4 L10 F17 A34 Pts13 -

Includes defeats by Sunderland, Wigan & Pompey.

Sams Record so far

P11 W4 D5 L2 F15 A10 Pts17 -

Just 2 defeats against United & Villa

Says it all really. Just a shame we didnt push Ince out abit earlier.

I suppose fans of every club will think along the same lines BUT that points total really SHOULD be 23 from 11. 6 'gimme' points absolutely frittered against Sunderland, Bolton and Man City by and unbelievable run of events that Allardyce can carry no blame for whatsoever. Roberts absolutelty gobsmacking and unbelievable miss of the decade, BM's awful penalty miss v Bolton and Derbyshires completely unprofessional decision in the last minute would have seen us ever so comfortable on 36 points. Even the most bone headed Allardyce detractors would have to admit that after 17 matches under Ince leaving us on 13 points that the Allardyce effect could have been absolutely remarkeable!

[patrickvalery]

Not tongue in cheek in the slightest. His decisions in the last 9 months have put us in perilous danger.

Not sure that is the complete truth. At worst his one bad decision put us in danger. But since he seems to have made two blinding decisions. Sacking Ince and appointing Allardyce. There can be no arguments about that. He conducted himself fantastically well with the whole Ince saga. He gave him every chance to succeed, but ultimately when Ince failed to take his any of them, he took swift and decisive action. He came straight out and stated he knew who he wanted for the job and he got his man.

People in football say how much admiration they have for Gibson at Boro. Chucking good money after bad is not my idea of a good chairman. JW has been, is still being and hopefully will continue to be top draw for us. Maintaining premier league status at a club which loses money year on year is one thing. But to do it with such high moral standards and good practice is another. The man doesn't need to do any explaining whatsoever.

[tonyoz]

17 bloody games earlier!

There is simply no excuse for John Williams ever appointing that jerk. They say that pencils have rubbers on the end cos everybody makes mistakes BUT to think that Williams wanted to give Ince even more time is very very worrying imo. I think the man needs to give some bloody good answers come summer.

Every time I see JW I am impressed. His interviews are honest, direct and full of good, old-fashioned common-sense. He empathises well with the fans too. A friend wrote to him to express his dismay and disappointment at the selling of Bellamy - and the failure to replace him. JW invited him to Ewood and talked frankly about that and other issues over a friendly cup of tea. How many other chairmen would have bothered?

We have argued about the wisdom (or lack of it) of appointing Ince many times but JW did the decent thing in the end. Did he wait too long? Your post below would suggest not. Not only are we well-placed in the league but, according to your analysis, we should be in the top eight! Sam still has plenty of time to get us into Europe at this rate.

I suppose fans of every club will think along the same lines BUT that points total really SHOULD be 23 from 11. 6 'gimme' points absolutely frittered against Sunderland, Bolton and Man City by and unbelievable run of events that Allardyce can carry no blame for whatsoever. Roberts absolutelty gobsmacking and unbelievable miss of the decade, BM's awful penalty miss v Bolton and Derbyshires completely unprofessional decision in the last minute would have seen us ever so comfortable on 36 points. Even the most bone headed Allardyce detractors would have to admit that after 17 matches under Ince leaving us on 13 points that the Allardyce effect could have been absolutely remarkeable!

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Roberts absolutelty gobsmacking and unbelievable miss of the decade,

Remind me which one of the four or five are actually on about?

[T4E]

Did you forget the fans furor over the very suggestion of Allardyce? I think if you think back to fan reaction that is all the explanation needed.

He has, he made a mistake and has rectified it. Explained.

Decisions over the last several years have kept us in the top flight, not just surviving either, doing very very well. Finish up grinding your axe and move on, if we go down fair enough, till then put the hone away.

A highly paid professional executive was influenced by a couple of thousand kids on Facebook? That itself needs explaining.

Not sure that is the complete truth. At worst his one bad decision put us in danger. But since he seems to have made two blinding decisions. Sacking Ince and appointing Allardyce. There can be no arguments about that. He conducted himself fantastically well with the whole Ince saga. He gave him every chance to succeed, but ultimately when Ince failed to take his any of them, he took swift and decisive action. He came straight out and stated he knew who he wanted for the job and he got his man.

Two bad decisions - appointing Ince, and not sacking him sooner. Sacking Ince was not a "blinding decision" - unless of course you mean that a blind man could have seen it was the only option.

Don't get me wrong, I have no axe to grind with John Williams outside of this situation. Up until this season I have always been a big fan and primarily I remain so. However, Williams this season has shown a propensity for making bad decisions that we havent seen before. As with any person in a senior management position, he should be made to explain how he came to make these decisions so as to appease all involved that lessons have been learned and enable him to carry on with the full confidence of the board and the fans.

[tonyoz]

A highly paid professional executive was influenced by a couple of thousand kids on Facebook? That itself needs explaining.

You surely don't believe that?

Two bad decisions - appointing Ince, and not sacking him sooner. Sacking Ince was not a "blinding decision" - unless of course you mean that a blind man could have seen it was the only option.

Don't get me wrong, I have no axe to grind with John Williams outside of this situation. Up until this season I have always been a big fan and primarily I remain so. However, Williams this season has shown a propensity for making bad decisions that we havent seen before. As with any person in a senior management position, he should be made to explain how he came to make these decisions so as to appease all involved that lessons have been learned and enable him to carry on with the full confidence of the board and the fans.

I can't agree there either. He acted decisively to axe Ince and appoint the Facebook bogeyman. Sam's appointment was just what the club needed - even if he was unpopular in some areas. As usual JW did the business that needed doing. Look at other clubs to see what we might have to put up with if he left.

[gumboots]

I don't think it was just facebook and those who suggest it was are simplifying the situation. there were many fans who would never have joined a facebook campaign who felt that Allardyce was not the manager to move us on from where Hughes left us and therefore welcomed the fact that we appeared to be prepared to look elsewhere. They did not at that time envisage our being in the relegation zone, selling friedel, or any of the other stuations that arose and therefore looked forward to a more exciting appointment. The decision to appoint Ince was greeted with some scepticism but a fairly open mind by many of these people. Perhaps Ince could make the step up. It turned out he couldn't and many of those who had wanted to give him a chance realised very quickly that he was not up to the job and should be replaced. At that stage Allardyce was looked on as a safe pair of hands. In the summer we did not want just a safe pair of hands - we wanted a bit more. JW tried to give us that but was man enough to admit his mistake and sort it. He should have done it sooner, yes, and alarm bells should have been ringing when Friedel left and when Bentley started swinging the lead before his drunken rant but there are often problems with any new regime and i guess if he'd sacked him sooner then we would have suffered even more of a media backlash than we did, which might or might not have mattered. I don't think Mr williams really has anything to explain to fans. If you want him to talk to you about it then do what many have done and write to him for an explanation. He'll probably give you the best he can.

[T4E]

If JW comes out and explains why Allardyce was overlooked in favour of Ince in the Summer then we wont have to debate the reasons, we'll know.

As far as acting decisively to axe Ince - are you kidding? It was atleast 2 games too late.

[tonyoz]

I don't think it was just facebook and those who suggest it was are simplifying the situation. there were many fans who would never have joined a facebook campaign who felt that Allardyce was not the manager to move us on from where Hughes left us and therefore welcomed the fact that we appeared to be prepared to look elsewhere. They did not at that time envisage our being in the relegation zone, selling friedel, or any of the other stuations that arose and therefore looked forward to a more exciting appointment. The decision to appoint Ince was greeted with some scepticism but a fairly open mind by many of these people. Perhaps Ince could make the step up. It turned out he couldn't and many of those who had wanted to give him a chance realised very quickly that he was not up to the job and should be replaced. At that stage Allardyce was looked on as a safe pair of hands. In the summer we did not want just a safe pair of hands - we wanted a bit more. JW tried to give us that but was man enough to admit his mistake and sort it. He should have done it sooner, yes, and alarm bells should have been ringing when Friedel left and when Bentley started swinging the lead before his drunken rant but there are often problems with any new regime and i guess if he'd sacked him sooner then we would have suffered even more of a media backlash than we did, which might or might not have mattered. I don't think Mr williams really has anything to explain to fans. If you want him to talk to you about it then do what many have done and write to him for an explanation. He'll probably give you the best he can.

Good post.

[LeChuck]

He also stopped sam from spending £5m on Bullard the crock.

That's not a fact, or even close to one. Nicko told us Sam looked annoyed in an interview because he was prevented from signing a player around the same time Bullard moved to Hull, so people on here were just putting 2 + 2 together and probably coming up with 5.

[waggy]

If JW comes out and explains why Allardyce was overlooked in favour of Ince in the Summer then we wont have to debate the reasons, we'll know.

As far as acting decisively to axe Ince - are you kidding? It was atleast 2 games too late.

so you also do not believe lardarse turned us down in the summer,after sparky ince's appiontment made sense,up and coming manager.lardarse would have been the safe bet,and with his nouse we would most probably be mid table playing crap football,now we have the excitment off a relagation battle

[Eddie]

It shouldn't be a question of why not Allardyce. It should be why Ince? Ince failed, we know that and it was he played a major role in his appointment so needs to be held accountable. I wouldn't get rid of him, but this idea that JW is this irreplaceable figure just isn't right.

[dave birch]

I don't think it was just facebook and those who suggest it was are simplifying the situation. there were many fans who would never have joined a facebook campaign who felt that Allardyce was not the manager to move us on from where Hughes left us and therefore welcomed the fact that we appeared to be prepared to look elsewhere. They did not at that time envisage our being in the relegation zone, selling friedel, or any of the other stuations that arose and therefore looked forward to a more exciting appointment. The decision to appoint Ince was greeted with some scepticism but a fairly open mind by many of these people. Perhaps Ince could make the step up. It turned out he couldn't and many of those who had wanted to give him a chance realised very quickly that he was not up to the job and should be replaced. At that stage Allardyce was looked on as a safe pair of hands. In the summer we did not want just a safe pair of hands - we wanted a bit more. JW tried to give us that but was man enough to admit his mistake and sort it. He should have done it sooner, yes, and alarm bells should have been ringing when Friedel left and when Bentley started swinging the lead before his drunken rant but there are often problems with any new regime and i guess if he'd sacked him sooner then we would have suffered even more of a media backlash than we did, which might or might not have mattered. I don't think Mr williams really has anything to explain to fans. If you want him to talk to you about it then do what many have done and write to him for an explanation. He'll probably give you the best he can.

Gumboots, you're a teacher, and you posted that?

Not the content, but I'll bet you know what I mean. Your students would not be pleased. I wonder how they would mark you