[Archived] John Williams And His Role..

[dennis the menace]

for a while ive been reading through the threads regarding the club, and especially ince..

im not as familiar with whats going on, at leats not as much, as some of the posters here, but i have a couple of questions..

does the appointment of ince, and the troubles ince is in, reflect bad leadership..?

ill present my perspective.. lets say im the chairman, and i have appointet ince, as a chairman i SHOULD know some, of the newly appointed managers strengths and weaknesses, and act accordingly.. that would be the basics of a proper appointment.. now lets say, i as a chairman, was handed some of ince requests, the andrews signing, fowler, the hiring of mathias and the other coaches, should williams at one point have stamped his authority, and said look ince, this it not the road i want the club to be taking..?

ill agree upon, that ince as a manger, should have a certain amount of freedom, but if i was the chairman, i think that it would be logically to take a few battles, to get my point through, and "help" him, in steering the ship, in the right direction..

this is not a bash ince thread, but i would like to hear some more knowledgable members on this site, give their view on williams in this situation..

[scotchrover]

John Williams knows quite clearly what he is doing, it the trustees that have become clueless and daft.

Since uncle Jack passed away many moons back (what its starting to feel like) the trustees have done as little as they can to stick to the rules set out by Jack to keep the club going.

SORT IT OUT

[unleaded]

Williams is the main man for me and his leadership is great........Check his record out for Blackburn..........I hope he sticks to his guns and sticks with Ince and rides this little storm out.......We do not want a trigger happy chairman and fully trust Williams.......Losing Dunn was the key for me......

[Hughesy]

John Williams is a top bloke, and really has his head screwed on. He will act when/if he feels necessary. We are in safe hands with him and I back him 100%

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Williams is the main man for me and his leadership is great........Check his record out for Blackburn..........I hope he sticks to his guns and sticks with Ince and rides this little storm out.......We do not want a trigger happy chairman and fully trust Williams.......Losing Dunn was the key for me......

How can losing Dunn be the key to anything ? We're talking David Dunn here not Alan Shearer at his peak. Dunny has been in and out of the team because of injury ever since he came back from his injury riddled spell with the Big Club.

He could come back at Xmas ,play a game or two and then be out again till the end of the season, everybody who watches Rovers knows that.

If you're relying on the return of Dunny to transform our future you're going to be disapointed.

[joey_big_nose]

How can losing Dunn be the key to anything ? We're talking David Dunn here not Alan Shearer at his peak. Dunny has been in and out of the team because of injury ever since he came back from his injury riddled spell with the Big Club.

He could come back at Xmas ,play a game or two and then be out again till the end of the season, everybody who watches Rovers knows that.

If you're relying on the return of Dunny to transform our future you're going to be disapointed.

For me if we got back Dunn and Grella then we would be a much much better team. I think those two would compliment each other very well, be very physical and have a decent amount of creativity, alongside the capacity to retain the ball.

On the other hand, even when they do make it back I am not convinced they will manage more than three games together before one of them becomes injured again. We cannot rely on either.

As for John Williams - he does seem a very capable guy. But also seems to have made a mistake with Ince. How he handles the next 8 weeks (which will presumably include, unless there is a tremendous turnaround in results, sacking and hiring a manager and formulating some sort of transfer budget) will be a defining point in his career.

[dennis the menace]

well the trustees arent involved, in the daily running of the club, that would be the chairman right..?

it wasnt the trustees who appointed a manager, with little to noone experience in top flight management ,right?

what im getting at is this, if you apppoint a manager, the basics this should include, what are his strenghts, what are his weaknesses.. its the chairman who in the end gives the go ahead, when it comes to transfers and other appointments..

would you as chairman, given last season brilliant 7 place, think it was the right choices to sign andrews, fowler and pay 4 mill £, for an almost 30 year old average player in grella, when we arein that price range.. should williams at one point have said, hold on ince, this is not the right direction,and perhaps layed out some guide lines..?

again ill akcnowledge the freedom in the managers work, but should williamshave been MORE AWARE of ince´s shortcomings and pushed ince in the right direction..?

im not talking about williams being a prick or whatever, im not talking about him when it comes to club feeling im only interested in his role with ince, has williams done enough..?

[broadsword]

Williams is the main man for me and his leadership is great........Check his record out for Blackburn..........I hope he sticks to his guns and sticks with Ince and rides this little storm out.......We do not want a trigger happy chairman and fully trust Williams.......Losing Dunn was the key for me......

Our fortunes as a club are tied to David Dunn being fit?

No disrespect to Dunn, and when he came back to the club, under Hughes his fitness record was good. But if we are pinning our hopes on Dunn being fit, then we are truly shafted.

[Bennisfromheaven]

As some people said when Ince was hired, the key to the appointment would be his backroom staff. Ince needs to be advised by experienced & qualified coaches which he is not getting. This is where i feel Williams went wrong. We have gone from the most to least qualified coaching staff in the league in a flash & this is plain to see. The problem now is if we try bring in more experience it is undermining ince ala Brian robson at boro

For me Ince should get until christmas to show some signs of progress otherwise he will have to go

[broadsword]

But Ince picked his own men.

If we wait until Christmas we'll be buried.

[Hughesy]

well the trustees arent involved, in the daily running of the club, that would be the chairman right..?

it wasnt the trustees who appointed a manager, with little to noone experience in top flight management ,right?

Wrong, the decision was made by a board/ panel of more than just John Williams, which included 1 from the side of the trust I believe. JW could have been out voted, who knows! So you cant blame him.

Also its the managers job to pick the players, not the Chairmans. The Chairmans job is to do the negotiating and keep the club in a health financial position, its not his area to decide who is/ isnt good enough to fit into Ince's plans. To be fair to Ince, except for Fowler - I dont see anything wrong with any of his signings so far. Only Grella is a doubt, but until he has had the chance to prove himself then its unfair to rate him.

[dennis the menace]

Wrong, the decision was made by a board/ panel of more than just John Williams, which included 1 from the side of the trust I believe. JW could have been out voted, who knows! So you cant blame him.

Also its the managers job to pick the players, not the Chairmans. The Chairmans job is to do the negotiating and keep the club in a health financial position, its not his area to decide who is/ isnt good enough to fit into Ince's plans. To be fair to Ince, except for Fowler - I dont see anything wrong with any of his signings so far. Only Grella is a doubt, but until he has had the chance to prove himself then its unfair to rate him.

okay,, thats why i asked, i wasnt sure.. but nevertheless, the daily running of the ship, is in the hands of williams.. eventhough its a panel who decides, would it be unfair to say, that the chairmans word, is something, that is strongly taken into consideration..?

again im well aware of the freedom a manager SHOULD get, but we were in a situation, where a totally new setup was needed, which was put in the hands of an inexperienced manager, this to me does not reflect good leader ship, far from actually..

thats not the way, you would run your own business, if you had one, is it.?

and if that was the case, a hands on approach surely is needed, to closely monitor the situation..

i think it would be fairly obvious, that given the circumstances with the appointment, that ince needed some guidelines.. thats just my point, whether or not it comes down to saying NO to fowler, andrews, or whatever it might have been, i just feel it would have been appropiate and then gradually give ince more and more freedom..

[ABBEY]

For me Ince should get until christmas to show some signs of progress otherwise he will have to go

and what if we are 8 or 9 points adrfift by then?

[Bennisfromheaven]

and what if we are 8 or 9 points adrfift by then?

I know this could be dangerous but it could also be dangerous to bring in another manager & full backroom staff now, I do think that should be given a little time to prove himself but if the club are going to get a new manager we cant be looking at the Ian Dowies or Stan Ternants of this world. If Ince goes it is an admission of a mistake & the club will need to make up for this with a manager with a good pedigree & back him in January

[broadsword]

I think even Iain Dowie and Stan Ternent would be an improvement at the moment. It really doesn't get much worse than this.

I see no prospect of improvement, so the time to act is now, before we really do end up in the shiznit.

[ABBEY]

the day we appoint stan turnip is the day i stop being not just a rover but a football fan.

[thenodrog]

the day we appoint stan turnip is the day i stop being not just a rover but a football fan.

I think ST is prob a better manager abbs.

[ABBEY]

HES A DINGLE END OF !

[joey_big_nose]

I think even Iain Dowie and Stan Ternent would be an improvement at the moment. It really doesn't get much worse than this.

I see no prospect of improvement, so the time to act is now, before we really do end up in the shiznit.

I think your overstating that a bit. Ince is not the worst manager in the world. We could easily make the wrong appointment and end up in an even worse situation, especially as whoever comes in will probabaly need to find a whole new backroom team and lift a dressing room on the slide. It is an absolutely crucial decision.

I am now for Ince being sacked barring an enormous turn around, but we cannot just go for anybody, that is lunacy, whoever we bring in needs to have a real rack record of getting the most out of teams in our situation. Of all the names being bandied about Allerdyce seems like the only real contender so far.

[Jan]

I know this could be dangerous but it could also be dangerous to bring in another manager & full backroom staff now, I do think that should be given a little time to prove himself but if the club are going to get a new manager we cant be looking at the Ian Dowies or Stan Ternants of this world. If Ince goes it is an admission of a mistake & the club will need to make up for this with a manager with a good pedigree & back him in January

How much F-ing time does the ###### need? 13 games, getting steadily worse, manager who looks glaiket when faced with "plan A" not working. WE HAVE NO HOPE UNDER INCE.

[gillibrand]

As some people said when Ince was hired, the key to the appointment would be his backroom staff. Ince needs to be advised by experienced & qualified coaches which he is not getting. This is where i feel Williams went wrong. We have gone from the most to least qualified coaching staff in the league in a flash & this is plain to see. The problem now is if we try bring in more experience it is undermining ince ala Brian robson at boro

For me Ince should get until christmas to show some signs of progress otherwise he will have to go

With that advice I predict we will be bottom of the league at Christmas! Also would you let this plank loose in the trans fare market come January, he would waste the money and then what?

[broadsword]

I think your overstating that a bit. Ince is not the worst manager in the world. We could easily make the wrong appointment and end up in an even worse situation, especially as whoever comes in will probabaly need to find a whole new backroom team and lift a dressing room on the slide. It is an absolutely crucial decision.

I am now for Ince being sacked barring an enormous turn around, but we cannot just go for anybody, that is lunacy, whoever we bring in needs to have a real rack record of getting the most out of teams in our situation. Of all the names being bandied about Allerdyce seems like the only real contender so far.

I wouldn't want just anyone to come in, it's got to be someone with a track record. We can't take another massive gamble by appointing someone who's only managed in League 2. So I wouldn't disagree with you.

And I was exaggerating slightly about Ince. Say about a nanometre or so.

;-)

[John]

I could see Sam coming in and making a positive impact though with regards to coaching staff and potential transfers.

I also think he would employ tactics which would help us stay in this league.

The situation is getting very serious. If there were not so many baffling things going on (on & off the pitch), I would not be as concerned.

[OscarRaven]

On John Williams his stewardship of the club has been second to none, he has made the wrong choice in Ince - he wont be judged on that.

He will however be judged on what he does now.... sack or back (a bit longer).

I can't help feel he will be too tempted to hang onto Ince and give him time.... that could cost us. On the flip side it there is no certainity that the new guy will save us.

[bobsterbrfc]

On John Williams his stewardship of the club has been second to none, he has made the wrong choice in Ince - he wont be judged on that.

He will however be judged on what he does now.... sack or back (a bit longer).

I can't help feel he will be too tempted to hang onto Ince and give him time.... that could cost us. On the flip side it there is no certainity that the new guy will save us.

totally agree, i appreciate everything Williams has done, and for the original appointment of Ince he shouldn't be judged. But, on our present situation, he must act. As far as I am concerned, the Rovers fans who are still against Sam Allardyce being appointed, do not have the best interests of Blackburn Rovers F.C. at heart.