[Archived] Trustees Crisis Meeting

[ABBEY]

Why should I do anything for my customers then - 'cos it's a bleedin' business! Anyone understands that. They are not doing it for me they are doing it

a. For the trust

b. For the legacy

c. for the town where the Walker millions were made

d. For the 26,000 who were prepared to cough up and turn up through thick and now are drifting away.

Doh!

Why should I do anything for my customers then - 'cos it's a bleedin' business! Anyone understands that. They are not doing it for me they are doing it

a. For the trust

b. For the legacy

c. for the town where the Walker millions were made

d. For the 26,000 who were prepared to cough up and turn up through thick and now are drifting away.

Doh!

Why should I do anything for my customers then - 'cos it's a bleedin' business! Anyone understands that. They are not doing it for me they are doing it

a. For the trust

b. For the legacy

c. for the town where the Walker millions were made

d. For the 26,000 who were prepared to cough up and turn up through thick and now are drifting away.

Doh!

3 times..quality

[RevidgeBlue]

It seems JW for the first time has publically had a dig at the Trustees

in going to the trouble of reproducing publicly the contents of a reply to an e-mail from a fan, in saying that MH might have been persuaded to stay had they given him more money, in stating in effect they're doing their bit at our end in operating at the limits of the bank overdraft, and in saying that our task is difficult without "substantial financial support" from owners.

That's how I would interpret it anyway.

Go John!

Excellent stuff.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Apologies - bleedin' IPS Driver Error!

[Exiled in Toronto]

It seems JW for the first time has publically had a dig at the Trustees

in going to the trouble of reproducing publicly the contents of a reply to an e-mail from a fan, in saying that MH might have been persuaded to stay had they given him more money, in stating in effect they're doing their bit at our end in operating at the limits of the bank overdraft, and in saying that our task is difficult without "substantial financial support" from owners.

That's how I would interpret it anyway.

Go John!

Excellent stuff.

That's how I read it too, particularly the bit about Hughes would still have been here if...

But it is perhaps a sign that the Board structure is not as efficient as we might have hoped. Usually, a Chairman's role is to ensure that the interests of the shareholders are being best met by the management, aided by wise counsel from some non-exec directors who are independent from the company.

But our board is anything other than a normal one. One of the members is a direct representative of the majority shareholder, so Williams in effect works for him. Another board member is from the family, which only muddies lines of responsibility even further. Who, out of Williams, Brown and Matthewman is in charge? Structure says Williams, ownership says Brown, emotion says Matthewman. Add into the mix that Williams behaves much more like a CEO than a Chairman, so what does Finn do?

Having thought about it, I am not the least surprised that we are getting no clear leadership from the Board; I think they structurally incapable of providing it on subjects where there is not a unanimous opinion.

[Majiball]

OK after a two hour Rovers chat I have a question for some on here as none of us know for sure.

Do football clubs pay tax on transfers?? If so how much?

We've been wondering how much of a reported fee a club accutually recieves after deductions.

Anyone?

Cheers in advance

[roverfanuk]

The board have got this spot on.

They know we are going down and so need to save funds for next season's promotion bid.

We cannot afford to compensate Ince and pals, never mind employ an unnecessary Premier League manager and his team.

We need to prepare for Coca-Cola football. The sales of Santa et al will also help.

Who to lead us in pastures new? Who has experience of the lower leagues and their players?

No wonder Ince was grinning as he left this morning.

BRFC an equal opportunity employer

So we are effectively rewarding someone to the sum of 1.5 million a year for 4 years, for costing us 30 million a year when we are relegated?

Wow that make sense?!

[scotchrover]

SACK THE BOARD, THEY'RE A COMPLETE DISGRACE!!!!!

Since Jack died they've spent nothing on us and treated us like where dirt on the bottom of their shoes.

The time has come for a new owner £5 million is rubbish in Jan today. Santa Cruz going as well GOOD ALL MIGHTY WHAT HAS COME OF THIS WONDERFULL CLUB.

SACK THE BOARD, SACK THE BOARD, SACK THE BOARD,

[Iceman]

what crisis?

[The Prof.]

It seems JW for the first time has publically had a dig at the Trustees

in going to the trouble of reproducing publicly the contents of a reply to an e-mail from a fan, in saying that MH might have been persuaded to stay had they given him more money, in stating in effect they're doing their bit at our end in operating at the limits of the bank overdraft, and in saying that our task is difficult without "substantial financial support" from owners.

That's how I would interpret it anyway.

Go John!

Excellent stuff.

Good!

Apologies for having tourets!

[Billy Castell]

We should start up our own club. Blackburn Rovers board suck, yet they will not be moved. We're going down, and there seems to be no impetus to fight this bad run.

[The Prof.]

The overdraft probably ate most of that up

Rovers have more than enough assets to raise an overdraft Jan.

[American]

But, but, but, Philip said he knew for a FACT that Ince had a higher transfer budget than any other Rovers manager ever. How can the 5 million we have to spend be from next year's budget when we haven't touched this huge budget that the board wouldn't approve being used on the dross that Ince wanted to bring in?

[The Prof.]

But, but, but, Philip said he knew for a FACT that Ince had a higher transfer budget than any other Rovers manager ever. How can the 5 million we have to spend be from next year's budget when we haven't touched this huge budget that the board wouldn't approve being used on the dross that Ince wanted to bring in?

Ah well there you go - I only deal in rumours.

[RevidgeBlue]

Since Jack died they've spent nothing on us and treated us like where dirt on the bottom of their shoes.

Let's not be unfair, up to this season they've put around 40m in since jack died. But relatively little in the last five years or so.

The Chairman of the Trustees gave a superb interview in the LT after Jack died in which he broadly outlined the nature of the Trust and how it applied to Blackburn Rovers. He indicated then that the intention was that the fund should be supplemented by profits from the other businesses, to counteract the suggestion that there would be an "ever diminishing pot" for BRFC. (Although there is no separate pot for BRFC)

In practice however that's exactly what has happened. I know Jack wanted the Club to be able to "wash it's face" financially and that's exactly what it is doing in the wake of the increased TV money. I can't believe however he intended BRFC to operate without any financial assistance at all from the Trust which is more or less what seems to be happening.

So it would be nice to hear from the Trustees again. What are their long term vision and plans for the Club? How do they expect the Club to survive at the current level without a workable transfer budget? Do they even care?

No-one expects the Walker family to go short of a bob or two just so BRFC can be propped up so what is the overall financial situation? Are they in a situation whereby they CANT comfortably give BRFC more money (in which case I'll shut up) or is it the case that they could, but choose not to?

Do they believe they are carrying out Jack's wishes as regards BRFC?

I think all these are valid questions and if we were shareholders of a Company we'd be entitled to answers. Unfortunately they have all the shares so we can't seem to get any!

I would cordially invite the Trustees to publicly set out their position eight years on in case I am being grossly unfair to them in any respect.

[The Prof.]

Let's not be unfair, up to this season they've put around 40m in since jack died. But relatively little in the last five years or so.

The Chairman of the Trustees gave a superb interview in the LT after Jack died in which he broadly outlined the nature of the Trust and how it applied to Blackburn Rovers. He indicated then that the intention was that the fund should be supplemented by profits from the other businesses, to counteract the suggestion that there would be an "ever diminishing pot" for BRFC. (Although there is no separate pot for BRFC)

In practice however that's exactly what has happened. I know Jack wanted the Club to be able to "wash it's face" financially and that's exactly what it is doing in the wake of the increased TV money. I can't believe however he intended BRFC to operate without any financial assistance at all from the Trust which is more or less what seems to be happening.

So it would be nice to hear from the Trustees again. What are their long term vision and plans for the Club? How do they expect the Club to survive at the current level without a workable transfer budget? Do they even care?

No-one expects the Walker family to go short of a bob or two just so BRFC can be propped up so what is the overall financial situation? Are they in a situation whereby they CANT comfortably give BRFC more money (in which case I'll shut up) or is it the case that they could, but choose not to?

Do they believe they are carrying out Jack's wishes as regards BRFC?

I think all these are valid questions and if we were shareholders of a Company we'd be entitled to answers. Unfortunately they have all the shares so we can't seem to get any!

I would cordially invite the Trustees to publicly set out their position eight years on in case I am being grossly unfair to them in any respect.

Well, an excellent post here which raises a number of key points.

- Do they have any vision?

- who challenges this almost unaccountable body for failing the trust?

- is a partial buy in an option? (by Dn williams for instance or us or other visionary

Hmmmm............A+ RB - been thinking it but couldn't be arsed writing it.

[47er]

The board have got this spot on.

They know we are going down and so need to save funds for next season's promotion bid.

We cannot afford to compensate Ince and pals, never mind employ an unnecessary Premier League manager and his team.

We need to prepare for Coca-Cola football. The sales of Santa et al will also help.

Who to lead us in pastures new? Who has experience of the lower leagues and their players?

No wonder Ince was grinning as he left this morning.

BRFC an equal opportunity employer

Well,good old board! What great vision!

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

I can't beleive all the rubbish written on here - based on a newspaper article claiming we only have £5m to spend. In truth nobody knows - it is all speculation.

The reality has always been - publish a significant transfer kitty - and the price immediately goes up.

I just hope that if Santa is leaving - that we line up his replacement prior to any transfer to take him out of the club.

[Mr. E]

honestly, if our funds are anywhere near 5 million, then we can even forget about the Championship. We have League 1 resources.

[den]

With that £5m we've still got to replace Bentley, before we start anywhere else - like striker, attacking midfield, left winger, right back etc, etc.

[roverfanuk]

With that £5m we've still got to replace Bentley, before we start anywhere else - like striker, attacking midfield, left winger, right back etc, etc.

Which is why we need to sell our deadwood to generate some funds.

Problem is though, if we sell to generate cash, will we get all the money back to spend...

[philipl]

The problem folks is simple.

13 x £750K = £9.75m the loss in prize money for coming 20th and not 7th

£3m = the difference in coverage income between Derby County and ourselves last season

£1m = the projected loss in gate money on current gates at Ewood

£???m = the loss from the club's £10m commercial income caused by the credit crunch and being relegation candidates

At a minimum, the club's budget for 2008/9 has shrunk by some £13m because

3 points out of every 30 points is the rate at which Derby County collected points last season.

That folks is the difference between the £5m transfer budget today and the £20m budget for calendar 2009 (with no use of overdraft) we had probably just 6 weeks ago.

Life moves on and adjusts to the facts and reality of each day.

[Hughesy]

Its time we started winning again then and got moving up that league.

[RevidgeBlue]

The problem folks is simple.

13 x £750K = £9.75m the loss in prize money for coming 20th and not 7th

£3m = the difference in coverage income between Derby County and ourselves last season

£1m = the projected loss in gate money on current gates at Ewood

£???m = the loss from the club's £10m commercial income caused by the credit crunch and being relegation candidates

At a minimum, the club's budget for 2008/9 has shrunk by some £13m because

3 points out of every 30 points is the rate at which Derby County collected points last season.

That folks is the difference between the £5m transfer budget today and the £20m budget for calendar 2009 (with no use of overdraft) we had probably just 6 weeks ago.

Life moves on and adjusts to the facts and reality of each day.

Fair points but if every club worked on that basis, and waited to see where they finished up, no-one outside of the top four would ever sign any players.

Also, the same doesn't appear to apply in reverse when we finish higher than projected in the League or unexpectedly reach a Cup semi final etc.

We knew Hughes was going to guide us to a position that should actually have been a lot better than seventh last season.

But there was still no money for him in January.

[philipl]

Fair points but if every club worked on that basis, and waited to see where they finished up, no-one outside of the top four would ever sign any players.

Also, the same doesn't appear to apply in reverse when we finish higher than projected in the League or unexpectedly reach a Cup semi final etc.

We knew Hughes was going to guide us to a position that should actually have been a lot better than seventh last season.

But there was still no money for him in January.

Rev you still don't take on board how awful our position is:

Even if we come 17th, those numbers improve by only £2m. The board would be grossly irresponsible not to be adjusting its budget in cash flow projections now. If we had 50% more points than we do (ie +6), then you'd have a contingency worst case but wouldn't be altering budgets.

[iamarover]

Rev you still don't take on board how awful our position is:

Even if we come 17th, those numbers improve by only £2m. The board would be grossly irresponsible not to be adjusting its budget in cash flow projections now. If we had 50% more points than we do (ie +6), then you'd have a contingency worst case but wouldn't be altering budgets.

And the credit crunch is coming to football no question. If Rovers pull this off and escape, we will be in the land of relative milk and honey financially compared to some of the car crashes that will occur in 09. West Ham are on the brink, and Philip's oft predicted Liverpool crisis could be weeks away. Anyone check out the removal of the Dubai guys from the scene last week? The Dubai guys I work with have just run out of money.... all is drying up there. And the US well is well and truly closed as an outlet for other clubs in debt (ie all of them) who now face massive pressure to reduce their unsustainable losses. This is a massive call by JW. He has no room to maneouvre on cash with the Banks witholding credit. the only card he has is the manager. Get it wrong, relegation and worse will follow. The Dark Ages will return. Get it right, and a financially sound club in a tightening market has every chance of Premier success. Stick or twist JW? It's only the club's future in the middle of the table.....