[Archived] Trustees Crisis Meeting

[OJRovers]

In the current financial conditions, Rovers are not the only club to have owners who are feeling the credit cruch (the FTSE fall has wiped off potentially 50% of any shareholdings value in the last year), banks also will be reducing credit to clubs other than BRFC. Hence general lower spending power throughout the league.

If we do have only £5m to spend in January (which may or may not be true) then this should be looked at IN RELATION to the spending power of other clubs. Its all relative. If no-one is spending then demand will be lower hence prices lower. (The obvious exception to this is Man City, who are expected to be the only club to significantly spend)

[philipl]

And the credit crunch is coming to football no question. If Rovers pull this off and escape, we will be in the land of relative milk and honey financially compared to some of the car crashes that will occur in 09. West Ham are on the brink, and Philip's oft predicted Liverpool crisis could be weeks away. Anyone check out the removal of the Dubai guys from the scene last week? The Dubai guys I work with have just run out of money.... all is drying up there. And the US well is well and truly closed as an outlet for other clubs in debt (ie all of them) who now face massive pressure to reduce their unsustainable losses. This is a massive call by JW. He has no room to maneouvre on cash with the Banks witholding credit. the only card he has is the manager. Get it wrong, relegation and worse will follow. The Dark Ages will return. Get it right, and a financially sound club in a tightening market has every chance of Premier success. Stick or twist JW? It's only the club's future in the middle of the table.....

I would say this wouldn't I but that is a very prescient post.

If JW wonders why we are all so anxious on here, the answers are:

1) We know he has heart and soul and belief in Blackburn Rovers

2) He made a bad judgement call- he knows, we know it and in he fact knew it before we knew it and did the brave and right thing then but the nightmare was allowed to continue

3) The market circumstances are such that Rovers have a very bright future indeed if only we can get ourselves back into the Premier League (and we're out the trap door for a minimum of two games).

4) The consequences of going down are horrific in the extreme and we are all terified of it.

[Exiled in Toronto]

4) The consequences of going down are horrific in the extreme and we are all terified of it.

I wouldn't like to be next to you in the trenches - Private Fraser and Corporal Jones rolled into one. When will you realise that you do not speak for 'we' and 'all of us'?

It looks like the time for sacking Ince has passed by, so your keeping on weeping and wailing in the corner is counter-productive. You seem to want the fans who will be at Wigan to withold the magnificent encouragement they gave the team last Saturday. Some of the like-minded posters want us to lose a winnable game. It's pathetic.

I think Ince should have gone 3 weeks ago but he hasn't, and I don't get a say anyway. The fans can make a huge difference to whether or not we stay up, more of a difference than Williams, so if the consequences of relegation are so horrific it's time to drop the bleating and make the best of a bad job.

Everyone who is going to Wigan - lift the roof off the stand with your support on Saturday. We'll either stay up after an emotional roller coaster season or go down fighting.

And I for one don't believe that moaning on here all week doesn't have a negative impact on the team. Lazy journos are everywhere, looking for angles, and if a player was to read this thread it would hardly inspire them to greater heights.

COME ON YOU BLUES - WE CAN DO IT!

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Oh worry worry.

Uncle Jack left a legacy to support the club in the medium to long term. I sincerely believe that, if necessary, the Trust will come up with another Cole like signing to avoid relegation.

The whole point of the trust was to maintain Rovers - they would surely be going against the wishes of the person who set up the trust if they didn't make money available in January (even in the form of an interest free loan - which they have done in the past).

[almuncle]

I wouldn't like to be next to you in the trenches - Private Fraser and Corporal Jones rolled into one. When will you realise that you do not speak for 'we' and 'all of us'?

It looks like the time for sacking Ince has passed by, so your keeping on weeping and wailing in the corner is counter-productive. You seem to want the fans who will be at Wigan to withold the magnificent encouragement they gave the team last Saturday. Some of the like-minded posters want us to lose a winnable game. It's pathetic.

I think Ince should have gone 3 weeks ago but he hasn't, and I don't get a say anyway. The fans can make a huge difference to whether or not we stay up, more of a difference than Williams, so if the consequences of relegation are so horrific it's time to drop the bleating and make the best of a bad job.

Everyone who is going to Wigan - lift the roof off the stand with your support on Saturday. We'll either stay up after an emotional roller coaster season or go down fighting.

And I for one don't believe that moaning on here all week doesn't have a negative impact on the team. Lazy journos are everywhere, looking for angles, and if a player was to read this thread it would hardly inspire them to greater heights.

COME ON YOU BLUES - WE CAN DO IT!

Good post!

[Majiball]

The problem folks is simple.

13 x £750K = £9.75m the loss in prize money for coming 20th and not 7th

£3m = the difference in coverage income between Derby County and ourselves last season

£1m = the projected loss in gate money on current gates at Ewood

£???m = the loss from the club's £10m commercial income caused by the credit crunch and being relegation candidates

At a minimum, the club's budget for 2008/9 has shrunk by some £13m because

3 points out of every 30 points is the rate at which Derby County collected points last season.

That folks is the difference between the £5m transfer budget today and the £20m budget for calendar 2009 (with no use of overdraft) we had probably just 6 weeks ago.

Life moves on and adjusts to the facts and reality of each day.

And then add in the unexpected costs IE contracts to be paid up.

Cheers for the info does make a lot of sense.

I do however have a different opinion. JW being the canny old fox he is has conceived what he calls the "credit crunch transfer system". We publicly tell the world we are flat broke when in reality we still have our money (good old Flybe profit increase is about 15M). We'll then bid for all our targets at the same time, all bids will be under the 5M limit but totalling 20M. We'll tell the clubs we're looking at other players to combat the footballing grapevine, no clubs will hock the prices up as we only have 5M and so we'll get more for our money.

Now I'm off to ask the ball N chain what that herbal tea was?

[yoda]

And then add in the unexpected costs IE contracts to be paid up.

Cheers for the info does make a lot of sense.

I do however have a different opinion. JW being the canny old fox he is has conceived what he calls the "credit crunch transfer system". We publicly tell the world we are flat broke when in reality we still have our money (good old Flybe profit increase is about 15M). We'll then bid for all our targets at the same time, all bids will be under the 5M limit but totalling 20M. We'll tell the clubs we're looking at other players to combat the footballing grapevine, no clubs will hock the prices up as we only have 5M and so we'll get more for our money.

Now I'm off to ask the ball N chain what that herbal tea was?

must have been one of the lesser known marajuana flavours

[The Prof.]

If PhillipL's figures are right then the boards position is unexplainable. They either don't care at all or have got themselves in one heck of a muddle. The finance and managerial position defy logic.

[scotchrover]

POST CLEARED

[The Prof.]

Why don't we buy the club ourself????

We could own 55% and someone like Branson or Murdoch could own the other 45%

Do the figure and beam me up Scottie. 15,000 x £5,000 should do it!

[Majiball]

We could own 55% and someone like Branson or Murdoch could own the other 45%

I'm up for that he could launch his next balloon ride as half-time entertainment. However I would hope he could provide a better football club than he can ISP.

Do the figure and beam me up Scottie. 15,000 x £5,000 should do it!

Sounds like a plan.

[allanncd]

The Trustees were greedy idiots to ask £40m for the club. As I said more than 12 months ago it was never worth more than £20m top whack (and I value businesses for a living so I think have a fairly informed opinion). Rothschilds may have advised otherwise but hey what does a banker know...as the current state of the world economy testifies. When the Prem TV money is lost the company becomes a liability unless players' contracts are offloaded. That's the position the Trustees have put themselves in. I can understand the company's bank being unwilling to advance more funds in the January window. But if (and that is a big "if" given the cash demands of a low-cost airline) the Trustees have funds then they need to decide whether to stick or twist. However I can fully understand their reluctance (see today's Guardian) to give Ince any more funds because he is clueless in the top end transfer market. Even a Jersey solicitor can see that the novices on trial from minor leagues are not going to make the slightest impact. Rovers need a manager who can identify a couple of players who really might make a difference. It's not going to happen with Ince.

[philipl]

If PhillipL's figures are right then the boards position is unexplainable. They either don't care at all or have got themselves in one heck of a muddle. The finance and managerial position defy logic.

Hang on guys, I am getting massive flak for even mentioning that relegation is my central forecast for the club this season.

At end September we were 7th and doing a Derby for ten games was the last thing in everybody's mind.

But we have done a Derby and are continuing to do a Derby now which has dumped us at least two games from safety so the revenue forecast for this season has plummeted accordingly compared with what it was such a short time ago.

The heck of the muddle is on the football pitch.

Alancd- do not take everything nicko writes on valuations at face value. The situation on disposal is vastly more complex as people like cheshireblue repeatedly explained.

[stuwilky]

The whole point of the trust was to maintain Rovers - they would surely be going against the wishes of the person who set up the trust if they didn't make money available in January (even in the form of an interest free loan - which they have done in the past).

Your understanding of the trust seems to be different from the common understanding.

[thenodrog]

Alancd- do not take everything nicko writes on valuations at face value. The situation on disposal is vastly more complex as people like cheshireblue repeatedly explained.

Yet you were the one who kept insisting in summer that we had a transfer budget available of many millions. So hows that work?

[philipl]

Yet you were the one who kept insisting in summer that we had a transfer budget available of many millions. So hows that work?

I have already explained that- there was an overdraft which the unplanned transfer surplus paid off and we probably cannot get finance now.

Plus coming 17th as opposed to 7th costs the club £10m in revenue this season.

Do keep up old boy!

[T4E]

OK, here's a question. I honestly do not know the answer, and I know I'm being very simplistic, but -

If the goal of the Trust is to keep Rovers self-sufficient then -

a. Why doesn't 100% of transfer fees received get given to the manager for strengthening (as surely the trust fund deals with everything else, this should be clear profit)?

and b. Where instead does the money that we make off selling players (Bentley for example) go?

OK, thats two questions, sorry.

[Majiball]

I doubt anyone on here can answer your question to be honest. Perhaps Tris could take JW up on his offer and someone could ask the man who has the answers? I would love to know as well.

[Brfcrule1]

T4E wrote: a. Why doesn't 100% of transfer fees received get given to the manager for strengthening (as surely the trust fund deals with everything else, this should be clear profit)?

and b. Where instead does the money that we make off selling players (Bentley for example) go?

those are 2 very pertinent questions to the point that need answering as apart from the little money the trust puts in where does the dosh from players sales go as in my eyes that money should be going into re-investing in new players but I agree with an earlier point I would be very reluctant to put any dosh into PI's hands as he is clueless in the transfer market but that dosh should be available I would also like to know the money the trust get from players sales are they being re-invested in the walkers other business interests if that is the case then they are just making money of Uncle Jack's dream which in many fan's eyes is wrong I think someone in the know should ask JW these questions as I would be very interested to hear the responses

[T4E]

Dude, breathe.

[scotchrover]

Why don't the fans buy the club ?????

based on the club being up for grabs at £40 million now and 35 000 fans (took that number to old Trafford for FA Cup semi against chelsea) we would each pay someone do the maths please my calcs broke

We could buy up the Walkers 100% stake in the club and then sell 49 % of it to Bransen or Murdoch to pump money in for fun

[roverfanuk]

Personally, i think Rovers would be a fantastic prospect for a investor. Plenty of land and space for further expansion in the future.

A fairly fresh town which must surely become a new young town some day in the future. Geographically perfectly situated in the north west, with a variety of competitors locally.

A proud history involving winning trophies when people thinking the small town in Europe couldnt manage it!

A proud family atmosphere, and family run club...

If i had the money, i would invest!

[Neil Weaver]

Personally, i think Rovers would be a fantastic prospect for a investor. Plenty of land and space for further expansion in the future.

A fairly fresh town which must surely become a new young town some day in the future. Geographically perfectly situated in the north west, with a variety of competitors locally.

A proud history involving winning trophies when people thinking the small town in Europe couldnt manage it!

A proud family atmosphere, and family run club...

If i had the money, i would invest!

Aye, in fact you're so bloody keen you won't invest in the train fare to Blackburn to go and talk to the Chief Exec. Not confined to you roverfanuk, but rarely have I seen such a collection of naive drivel in one thread. Yours, full of Christmas spirit.

[roverfanuk]

Aye, in fact you're so bloody keen you won't invest in the train fare to Blackburn to go and talk to the Chief Exec. Not confined to you roverfanuk, but rarely have I seen such a collection of naive drivel in one thread. Yours, full of Christmas spirit.

Check your inbox... I have sent you a PM...

[bellamy11]

A fairly fresh town which must surely become a new young town some day in the future.

Aside from the fact that I'm not really sure what this actually means, you clearly don't come from here, do you?!?

with a variety of competitors locally.

Yep - this is certainly something I'm always hopeful of when investing in something.