[Archived] Oliver Holt

[philipl]

Here's the elephant in the kitchen for me on this issue. Every one of our managers since King Kenny took us into the bottom three at some stage, and all for longer than the 2 weeks we have resided there under Ince. Also, some of the falls from grace were steeper and more unexpected:

- Harford (using Den's definition) decided to sell Shearer - Shearer ffs - and recruited the likes of Holmes, Donis and Fenton. We went from Champions of England to bottom of the league in 18 months.

- Hodgson took us from top of the league when we won 3-1 at Highbury to bottom within 12 months, recruiting the likes of Blake for 4 million (must be equiv to 8 million today given inflation in transfer fees)

- Kidd took us to the lower reaches of the Championship recruiting a cartload of donkeys.

While all three managers prompted fan discontent, none received the kind of vitriolic, hateful abuse that Ince has engendered from some posters on this messageboard.

I have heard no rational explanation why this would be so. While people may be of the opinion that he is a far worse manager, doing far more damage to the club than the aformentioned, the facts say that we have been through similar if not worse several times before. Yet Ince is being vilified more than the three of them put together. That is what people outside the club would not understand and would prompt them to look for other explanations.

If you don't like what Holt writes, then we need some posters to stop giving him reasons to write it.

Uncle Jack was alive then.

In those days, we didn't fear a 1965/6-style one way ticket to oblivion that relegation would mean now.

Simple when you think about it.

[DP]

Here's the elephant in the kitchen for me on this issue. Every one of our managers since King Kenny took us into the bottom three at some stage, and all for longer than the 2 weeks we have resided there under Ince. Also, some of the falls from grace were steeper and more unexpected:

- Harford (using Den's definition) decided to sell Shearer - Shearer ffs - and recruited the likes of Holmes, Donis and Fenton. We went from Champions of England to bottom of the league in 18 months.

- Hodgson took us from top of the league when we won 3-1 at Highbury to bottom within 12 months, recruiting the likes of Blake for 4 million (must be equiv to 8 million today given inflation in transfer fees)

- Kidd took us to the lower reaches of the Championship recruiting a cartload of donkeys.

While all three managers prompted fan discontent, none received the kind of vitriolic, hateful abuse that Ince has engendered from some posters on this messageboard.

I have heard no rational explanation why this would be so. While people may be of the opinion that he is a far worse manager, doing far more damage to the club than the aformentioned, the facts say that we have been through similar if not worse several times before. Yet Ince is being vilified more than the three of them put together. That is what people outside the club would not understand and would prompt them to look for other explanations.

If you don't like what Holt writes, then we need some posters to stop giving him reasons to write it.

I hear what you're saying EIT but by all accounts the fans were right behind Ince and the team against Liverpool on Saturday. Your point therefore is based solely on your view that those other managers weren't vilified on Internet messageboards. Well, that I wouldn't know as I didn't really used the internet back in the 90s and I'm sure most people who use now didn't either.

The one thing that stands out with Ince and Rovers this season is just how disjointed we've become as a team, compared to what we were like under Hughes. We haven't looked this bad since the Brian Kidd days and it was a lot harder to criticise Kidd in the relegation season as much of the damage had already been done. Likewise, Hodgson had previously put Rovers back into the top six and suffered because of injuries, player mutiny, the 'Davies' factor and big Col leaving us in the lurch. So a lot of fans quite rightly felt that given a bit of luck he would have got us out. Harford goes, without saying he was a tremendous coach and a big factor behind us winning the league.

I actually think Ince inherited a team on the decline, which we had been since the 2-1 win at Spurs last year, but we still stumbled to a good top ten finish and the nucleus was there fore Ince to build on. Yes, he's had some fresh ideas and not being afraid to throw some youngsters in, but has shown a huge amount of naivity which a mangager, or management team (as that's what they are these days) with the right experience wouldn't do:

- Building the team around an injury prone midfieler (Dunn)

- Not sticking to a settled back four

- Not recognising the need for superior fitness/athletism in the Premier League (Andrews clearly off the pace, Grella not fit)

- Playing players out of position when others were available (Warnock/Vogel springs to mind)

So on the back of 10 games without a win and the points I've made I don't think Paul should be our Premiership manager anymore

[Exiled in Toronto]

Uncle Jack was alive then.

In those days, we didn't fear a 1965/6-style one way ticket to oblivion that relegation would mean now.

Simple when you think about it.

Simple to understand the abuse? Well, you should know.

[whatdial]

This Oliver Holt sounds like an absolute muppet. I am not a Rovers fan, but they are my second team, but this guy has a vendeta against Rovers. How he can say Rovers and their fans are racist isn't right. I personally have never heard racist comments at a Rovers game. If there was that much racism at the club, they would never have appointed him in the first place.

Here is a strange but true fact about Oliver Holt - his mum is Emily Bishop from Corrie! No wonder he is a miserable git, as she is the most miserable woman on that show, and there are quite a few.

[Hi Mack]

This Oliver Holt sounds like an absolute muppet. I am not a Rovers fan, but they are my second team, but this guy has a vendeta against Rovers. How he can say Rovers and their fans are racist isn't right. I personally have never heard racist comments at a Rovers game. If there was that much racism at the club, they would never have appointed him in the first place.

Here is a strange but true fact about Oliver Holt - his mum is Emily Bishop from Corrie! No wonder he is a miserable git, as she is the most miserable woman on that show, and there are quite a few.

possibly the funniest thing ive ever heard!

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

A piece in today's Lancashire Evening Telegraph makes a few similar points to the ones that Rovers fans on here have said.

"Race row is simply a joke"

Unlike me I bet Oliver Holt has never lived next to anyone with a different colour of skin to his own.

You'll often find that white middle-class liberals in the media like Oliver Holt enjoy pontificating from an ivory tower, without actually having much experience of the day-to-day situations that ordinary British people find themselves in.

Here is a strange but true fact about Oliver Holt - his mum is Emily Bishop from Corrie!

'Tis true. Scroll down to near the bottom of the page in the link below - to the bit "About the actress"

LINK

OLIVER HOLT IS A MUPPET

True as well.

The relevant e-mail addresses again:

Oliver Holt - [email protected]

Daily Mirror Sports Editor - [email protected]

[thenodrog]

You'll often find that white middle-class liberals in the media like Oliver Holt enjoy pontificating from an ivory tower, without actually having much experience of the day-to-day situations that ordinary British people find themselves in.

hey don't have to be white either to be poncy middle class liberals either.

[dave birch]

Brownie, I've just had an idea for one of your evenings.

How about inviting Oliver Holt to explain himself? He's an accomplished media performer, he can put his thoughts into words. He's be an interesting subject to be put under the spotlight, I'm sure. He's fairly local, isn't he?

[Rovermatt]

A piece in today's Lancashire Evening Telegraph makes a few similar points to the ones that Rovers fans on here have said.

"Race row is simply a joke"

You'll often find that white middle-class liberals in the media like Oliver Holt enjoy pontificating from an ivory tower, without actually having much experience of the day-to-day situations that ordinary British people find themselves in.

Classic! Because the middle-class (which must surely include yourself, judging by your posts - 'Ince grew up on a council estate in Ilford' ) aren't 'ordinary British people'? Do you have to live next door to a black person before you can be termed thus?

Anyway, I'll say it again. Holt is a tabloid journalist. He's not some hand-wringing Guardian pontificator, searching for social significance in every corner of the land. He's working a mucky angle because it's easy work and even easier to digest. He's had an agenda against Rovers for years and is certainly not going to delve any deeper into the problems at the club beyond pointing his finger at the an equation that, to him, reads: that our manager's black + we're doing rubbish=5

[Paul Mellelieu]

You'll often find that white middle-class liberals in the media like Oliver Holt enjoy pontificating from an ivory tower, without actually having much experience of the day-to-day situations that ordinary British people find themselves in.

Daily Mirror Sports Editor - [email protected]

What exactly are you implying here? Come on spell it out.

[dave birch]

Paul M, Paul I is a football club manager who is not doing very well at the moment.

A fair number of the supporters of the football club are unhappy.

Now, for me, I thought that he would be a good appointment, that hasn't turned out to be true, so he's got to go.

It's happened before, it will happen again.

[T4E]

Paul M, Paul I is a football club manager who is not doing very well at the moment.

A fair number of the supporters of the football club are unhappy.

Now, for me, I thought that he would be a good appointment, that hasn't turned out to be true, so he's got to go.

It's happened before, it will happen again.

What are you implying? Oh, that he's (Please don't use that word again)ing useless. Fair point.

[dave birch]

T4E, I'm not implying that at all.

Ince has (for me) failed at Ewood, that's not to say he wouldn't be a success elseware.

It could be, that if he stayed, he may even be a success at Ewood, but I don't want to take that chance. He's an unknown, there's not much history behind him as a manager.

[T4E]

Fair enough.

He is (Please don't use that word again)ing useless though, and that's why he needs sacking. I don't care if his skin was pea green with a yellow border - relegation doesn't have a colour.

[dave birch]

T4E, I disagree that he is usless, as you describe him. There's every chance he'd move into his next job and be a success..

Based on his tenure at Ewood, I don't think that he's doing the club, or himself, any favours. If he won't resign, then he's got to be given the flick.

[T4E]

There's absolutely no evidence that he'll ever be a success at this level. He may well be - stranger things have happened - but there's not a single thing at the moment pointing in that direction.

[Flopsy]

your just bitter because you owe me a dairylea triangle

[T4E]

I'm a bit cheesed off about that, yes.

[roverthemoon]

Brownie, I've just had an idea for one of your evenings.

How about inviting Oliver Holt to explain himself? He's an accomplished media performer, he can put his thoughts into words. He's be an interesting subject to be put under the spotlight, I'm sure. He's fairly local, isn't he?

I thought well known people were required. Just who is this Oliver Holt person?

[T4E]

I dread to think how Mr Holt will react to being invited to an evening in Blackburn by a guy called "Brownie"

[alexanders]

I dread to think how Mr Holt will react to being invited to an evening in Blackburn by a guy called "Brownie"

[gillibrand]

I think that in these situations the race card is an easy get out of gaol card, and I can't believe that people are surprised at its use, the naive JW will be wondering how to sack Ince without being labelled a racist, but he should have known of the implications when he hired him!

[thenodrog]

What exactly are you implying here? Come on spell it out.

That Dan Silver is the Sports editor at the Mirror I'd guess.

You seem to be finding that a bit difficult to grasp in your heightened state of anxiety macca. Could you please for once just ignore the colour of Paul Ince's skin like the majority on here and try to look on him as just another bloke? It'd really benefit your health in the long run I'm sure.

[dave birch]

I think that in these situations the race card is an easy get out of gaol card, and I can't believe that people are surprised at its use, the naive JW will be wondering how to sack Ince without being labelled a racist, but he should have known of the implications when he hired him!

"the naive JW"

Oh dear.

pray tell the messageboard on what you base this statement? You a CEO or something?

[leftfooter]

I think that in these situations the race card is an easy get out of gaol card, and I can't believe that people are surprised at its use, the naive JW will be wondering how to sack Ince without being labelled a racist, but he should have known of the implications when he hired him!

I can't understand why the club is not being more aggressive about pursuing those penning the poison coming from certain quarters (esp. the Mirror).

If I was JW I would be instructing the club's solicitors to remind those parties alleging racism that there are remedies the club can take against any unsubstantiated claims. Individuals are not the only ones that can sue for libel – McDonalds spring particularly to mind.

To paraphrase a post I made several days ago in the Ince thread; basically, the best thing the club can do in order to silence Ince's lick-spittle media lackeys such as Lewis (strangely keeping his counsel) and Holt is to sack him forthwith.

Once Ince has been sacked; let's see Holt or Lewis then accuse JW individually or the Board collectively of being motivated or influenced in any way whatsoever by racism.

Holt, Lewis and indeed Ince for that matter should be made fully aware that the libel court's gates are creaking ominously in the wind...