[Archived] Oliver Holt

[Lathund]

Of course I did not think it was serious

Whenever I see a joke article attributed to someone I usually also respond to it, angrily and in bolded caps, line by line.

WELL DONE YOU HAVE JUST REVEALLED HOW PATHETIC YOU REALLY ARE TO THE POWERS THAT BE -THEY SHOULD SIGN AN ARREST WARRENT FOR YOU FOR INPERSANATION OF BEING HUMAN.

I think this part especially shows how much you didn't for a second think it was serious.

[PAFELL]

Whenever I see a joke article attributed to someone I usually also respond to it, angrily and in bolded caps, line by line.

I think this part especially shows how much you didn't for a second think it was serious.

I believe I also mentioned about him slipping on Black Ice, the funky gibeon, the police laughing hyserically and turning up late.

To be honest I thought it was a very good joke - but also considered that Holt may visit this message board, after all in recent interviews he has mentioned supporters message boards with regards to fans wanting Ince sacked.

My original motive for starting the post was in the hope that pathetic morons like Holt may view it.

The joke piece and my comments was just to add fuel to the fire that Holt - and whoever else - saying Rovers supporters want Ince out because of his colour and calling the club racist is really pathetic. I considered Holts views to be an insult to the club and every Rovers supporter who uses this messageboard - bear in mind that we know that other club supporters also visit this board - the more evidence / comments posted on here, against such people as Holt, helps refute his pathetic claims.

[T4E]

Mate, stop digging.

[bubblerrovers]

After reading all the papers today i'm glad the press has realised we're not all racists and Paul Ince really is a shambles of a manager

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

Huge media backlash so far and its going to build and build. I just wish they would use their brains and realise the situation we are in and what relegation would mean to a club like ours.

I suppose that prats at the Daily Mirror like Oliver Holt and Darren Lewis will be digging the race card out again and using it as a stick to try to beat Rovers over the head. As Thenodrog has previously said, if we were a "racist" club then we wouldn't have appointed the silly clown from MK Dons in the first place.

Paul Ince has rightly been sacked today because he was clearly out of his depth at Premiership managerial level. He was sacked because he was useless and incompetent and not because he was black.

Eleven games without a win and just 3 points from 33 is an abysmal record and the criticism I would make of the Rovers board is that Ince should have been sacked at least a month ago, after the debacle at home to Sunderland on November 15th. Since then we've lost our last five games, including the Carling Cup shambles at Old Trafford, and we need two wins just to get out of the drop zone.

It can't be over-emphasised just what a disastrous appointment Ince was. A gamble that proved to be recklessly foolish by the Rovers board. Because of Ince's tactical ineptitude and sheer incompetence he's inflicted enormous damage on our proud club and I pray that whoever comes in can turn things around, which won't be an easy task now after the mess Ince has made.

Sammy Lee was sacked at Bolton after 12 matches in charge last season and there wasn't a big hoo-hah by Oliver Holt about his dismissal. Chris Hutchings was also sacked last season after 12 games in charge at Wigan. In both cases, at Bolton and Wigan, the decision to remove the services of their failing managers proved to be the correct decisions because both clubs survived last season.

Let's hope that Rovers, after waiting 17 Premiership games to get rid of Ince, haven't left it too late. Make no mistake, if Ince had stayed around for much longer at Ewood, then we would have been relegated without a shadow of a doubt. I'm pleased that the Rovers board have come to their senses at last, but unnecessary damage has been done in recent weeks by the board dithering and not making a decision earlier.

I very much hope that John Williams and his fellow directors were not influenced by idiots in the media like Oliver Holt and their perception that Rovers would have been "racist" if they had sacked Ince earlier.

Premiership survival and the future of our club is far more important than the views of deluded liberals like Holt who use the race card for their own warped ends. You don't hear journalists and pundits like Holt or Darren Lewis weeping and wailing now about Sammy Lee and Chris Hutchings and saying how unfair and disgraceful it was that they weren't given more time in charge last season.

Chairmen are paid to make tough decisions. Journalists like Holt and Lewis are paid to give their views and opinions - in their case opinions which are far removed from the real world we live in. I suspect that if Holt and Lewis had to pay for season tickets at the football club they follow and had to endure some of the abysmal and unacceptable performances that Rovers have served up this season, then perhaps their views would be different.

The truth is that Holt and Lewis don't give a damn about the long-term future of Blackburn Rovers. That's why Lewis derided our club and showed his contempt for Rovers in an article he wrote in the summer.

Managers like Steve Bruce and Harry Redknapp were saying earlier this week that Ince should be given more time. It's obvious that it's in the best interests of those two people to have another manager near the bottom of the table failing miserably. It's one relegation place less that they don't have to worry about. They don't want another guy coming in at Rovers and improving things.

You'll notice of course that Redknapp wasn't one of those people pleading for Juande Ramos to be given more time after eight matches into this season. Good God no. Redknapp was quite happy to waltz in at White Hart Lane and indicate that Ramos's record wasn't good enough and that the Spaniard had to leave. But earlier this week, Harry the media darling has been pleading for Ince to be given more time. His double standards sicken me.

The Rovers board should have acted over a month ago, but thank God Ince has gone now.

[philipl]

Oliver Holt talks racists again but avoids libelling us.

He also talks about mediocrities.

In that he is extremely well qualified.

[dave birch]

Holt puts the NFL as an example.

How many of the coaches in the NFL are under pressure? There's a fair few, and a few have been given the flick earlier than any PL manager.

The reason? Because their teams didn't make the grade, they didn't stack up, even early in the season. The big difference with the NFL is, that if you have the money, your team stays in the league. You don't get relegated.

Oliver, if a team falls out of the prem, it has a far bigger impact.

Face facts son, Ince was given the flick because, at this stage in his managerial career, he wasn't good enough. If YOU employed him, and YOUR team was looking down the barrell of relegation, you would have to, through pure fiscal responsibility, look for the best for YOUR team and replace him.

It's clear that you have never employed anyone, never sacked anyone (through incompetency or because of financial constraints). It is hard, but the viability of the business is paramount.

If you feel that he was hard done by, I'd suggest that you implore your favourite team to employ him as manager and give him the two or three years that everyone seem to think that he should have had at Blackburn Rovers.

Why should we (The Rovers) be the "proving ground"?

[RevidgeBlue]

After Ince was sacked it occurred to me that hypothetically it would have been quite amusing if there had been a suitable available black candidate out there and we had appointed him as well as Ince.

Just think of the fun Mr. Holt would have had trying to explain that one away.

[Stuart]

On the basis of that piece, why isn't he applauding Blackburn for going further than what he is asking for? We not only shortlisted but employed Paul Ince. This guy is so full of contradictions it's untrue.

Interestingly, I've NEVER seen a black journalist around the table on the Sunday Supplement that Mr. Holt likes to appear on (unless someone can put me right). Any sinister reason for that? No. So why does he need to continually cast aspersions against our club?

Mr. Holt has gone down a very long way in my estimations.

[Clitherover]

Oliver Holt talks racists again but avoids libelling us.

He also talks about mediocrities.

In that he is extremely well qualified.

eugh, what a slimeball, can't bear to read another one of his ''so called'' articles.

[Amo]

He definitely strikes me as someone with 'white man's guilt.'

[thenodrog]

He definitely strikes me as someone with 'white man's guilt.'

Does that even exist?

[Amo]

I think so. Some people appear indebted to ethnic minorities and take any opportunity to get on their soapbox.

[leftfooter]

Holt puts the NFL as an example.

How many of the coaches in the NFL are under pressure? There's a fair few, and a few have been given the flick earlier than any PL manager.

The reason? Because their teams didn't make the grade, they didn't stack up, even early in the season. The big difference with the NFL is, that if you have the money, your team stays in the league. You don't get relegated.

Oliver, if a team falls out of the prem, it has a far bigger impact.

Face facts son, Ince was given the flick because, at this stage in his managerial career, he wasn't good enough. If YOU employed him, and YOUR team was looking down the barrell of relegation, you would have to, through pure fiscal responsibility, look for the best for YOUR team and replace him.

It's clear that you have never employed anyone, never sacked anyone (through incompetency or because of financial constraints). It is hard, but the viability of the business is paramount.

If you feel that he was hard done by, I'd suggest that you implore your favourite team to employ him as manager and give him the two or three years that everyone seem to think that he should have had at Blackburn Rovers.

Why should we (The Rovers) be the "proving ground"?

Don't take Holt seriously Dave.

Realising he was on extremely shaky legal ground with his peculiar mix of self-righteous fury and metropolitan angst aimed against the club, he now sanctifies his irrational self-loathing by redirecting his fury against nothing more than straw men.

Articulating the canard that 'black players don't have what it takes to make it at the top level of management', even if only to condemn it, was both unnecessary and patronising to Ince and those potential black managers waiting for their chance.

Given that the most powerful nation on earth's election of its first black President was met with almost universal acclaim Holt's sanctimonious portrayal of black footballers as hapless victims of white oppression isn't worthy of a high school debate.

[tony gale's mic]

We've just sacked a BLACK manager and replaced him with a WHITE manager.

A true sign of the institutional racism that runs through our club!

[thenodrog]

Interestingly, I've NEVER seen a black journalist around the table on the Sunday Supplement that Mr. Holt likes to appear on (unless someone can put me right). Any sinister reason for that? No. So why does he need to continually cast aspersions against our club?

Mr. Holt has gone down a very long way in my estimations.

For what it's worth I emailed a contact in the press on that subject and here's his reply. btw First paragraph was general chat so I've omitted a lump of it.........

Hi Gordon,

Sorry for the delay in replying. Crazy week:

Writing this on my phone in the taxi home, hence the odd hour it is getting

emailed.......

.......... I wouldn't bother reading Oliver Holt. His mum, who plays Emily Bishop on

Coronation Street, would make a better pundit.

You're right, there are very few non-white people on sports desks or in the

national newspapers generally. We had four non-white guys out of about 20

people on the sports desk today, but that is unusually high and when I

worked at the Evening Standard the figure was none, in three years.

I guess the thing with race and football is that with so many black players

visible on the pitch, it is conspicuous that there are few moving into the

dugouts.

I think Ince did good jobs at Macclesfield and MK Dons, and will get more

chances. But that Blackburn's decision was entirely understandable.

Everyone would like it if managers got longer, but those days are gone,

with a) what's at stake and the transfer window system meaning that you

need to get a new man in with time to spare if he is to shake up a squad.

Allardyce talked about one of his first tasks as assessing the squad, of

course, and you need time to do it before the window opens.

Ince should look for a Championship job. Repeat his success at Macclesfield

and MK Dons, get promotion back to the top flight, and learn from his

struggles. Blackburn needed a shake-up and Allardyce will deliver it.

Merry Christmas,

So there you go jisty ...... Get into him.

[Ewood and I Would]

I write about this recentey so here's my copy and paste. Was going to send it to Mr Holt too...

My answer to Oliver Holt on racism in football 1

My response to Oliver Holt's article here:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/200...15875-20926013/

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why do you think it is that Paul Ince is being written off as a manager only a few games into his first job in the Premier League?

For the same reason many doubted his appointment, inexperience and age.

Why do you think nobody's cutting him the same kind of slack we cut Roy Keane, even though Keane's spent 10 times as much money?

Keane took over a Championship club and got them promoted in their first season. Of course they were going to keep him at the helm after that. The events surrounding Keane and Sunderland since this article was written say the rest.

Why do you think Ince is characterised as a novice when he stands up for his team while other bosses doing the same are praised for their passion?

Never heard this and don’t agree with the statement but Ince is a novice, 2 years in the lower leagues cannot be considered anything less at premiership level.

Why do you think nobody's mentioning the fact that when he took over at Blackburn, he had to cope with the sale of his best player? Why do you think that, given his budget restrictions, few people are suggesting he's not made such a bad start?

Plenty of Rovers fan did, they also rightly questioned why he didn’t replace that best player (I presume you mean Bentley there). Ince spent £14 million (£5m earmarked for Villanueva) and although this isn’t massive, it’s more than Hughes spent most windows.

Why do you think when Tony Adams failed in his first chance in management, his second came in the Premier League?

Adams was coach at Portsmouth when Harry left. He was then given the job, in other words promoted or hired internally. It’s quite common in at most companies.

Why do you think that when John Barnes failed in his first chance in management, his second came with Jamaica?

International Management isn’t bad you know, he got another chance after a dismal spell at Celtic. Any manager would have struggled after his failure regardless of colour.

Why do you think it took 120 years for a top-flight club here to appoint a British black manager?

Racism for the most part but you’re talking about now. Being racist in the past doesn’t prove racism now.

Why do you think people are calling for Ince's head when he's barely been in charge for 120 days?

Because he was tactically inept, played players out of position and left the team without a win in 11 games.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My answer to Oliver Holt on racism in football 2

In response to this article in the Mirror.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/200...15875-20977232/

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Firstly he admits that race was not an issue in Ince's sacking and yet shamelessly uses it and Ince’s image to highlight his perceived levels of racism in football. Ince’s sacking was not about race and therefore shouldn’t be used as a springboard to discuss it. If Mr Holt had actually done some research (further than speaking to two people on coaching courses) he might have reason to write an expose on the subject instead of using this poor guy’s sacking to voice his opinion on what he has already admitted nothing to do with his dismal. Sadly this declaration is about the only thing Oliver Holt did get right in the rest of his article.

Before I deconstruct what he said, I’ll get this fact out of the way because it is the basis for all my rebuttals and pretty much invalidates any logic in anything Holt goes on to say.

Percentage of Black people in the UK: 2% (source: CIA World Fact Book)

So here we go….

“There are 92 league clubs in England. Now, only one of them, Macclesfield Town, the same club that gave Ince his first coaching opportunity, has a black manager, Keith Alexander.”

That equates to 1.8% of managers being black, just a few days ago when Ince was at Rovers this stood at 3.8% therefore black managers were statistically over-represented. You’ve also chosen to pounce on quite a rare time to highlight this outrageous 0.2% underrepresentation. Just off the top of my head I can think of Ince, Keith Curl and Carlton Palmer having been in charge of teams recently, then slightly further back Gullit and Tiagna in the Premiership.

“And, er, that's it. Roughly 25 per cent of the players in our leagues are black and all we can muster is one black boss.

It's the kind of figure that undermines us when we point to the kind of overt racism that exists within Spanish football.”

No it doesn’t because that sir is clearly an illogical comparison to make. What is the average age of a player? 25, roughly? What is the average age of a manager? 45 at the youngest surely?

Although not impossible, I think you’d have to agree that the vast majority of managers were former professional players of some description (even if they weren’t great). Afterall, your comparison notes this but it forgets the time difference. You have to look at how many black players there were 20 years ago to get a more accurate picture.

I don’t have a quick way of getting the stats but I’d be pretty confident the amount of professional black players in 1988 was closer to 2% than to the 25% we have today. But feel free to check…

What I do know is that it wasn’t until the late 80s that we saw a real (and long overdue) explosion in the numbers of black players being signed by teams with some clubs having little or no history of signing black players until the late 80s. Was there racism in football in the past, yes; but Holt’s making the argument about football today.

"Nor are there any black chief executives or black chairmen. The executive levels of English football are run by a white monopoly. It's a closed shop.

We can do pornographers, human rights violators and peddlers of cheap sports tat, but the one thing we can't do is a person of a different colour."

I have no means of verifying the first sentence but I see a careful selection of words here. If we included all board members then I’d be surprised if there were no black people at all, but I agree it would be nice to see at least two black Chief Executives (or 2%). As for Chairmen, well that is normally the owner or main shareholder and is entirely down to who is willing to invest in the club. Why black people aren’t buying football clubs is another question but can’t be used to prove a “closed shop” when that shop can be bought into.

Furthermore, Man City have Thai and Arab Chairmen on their board and Fulham’s Chairman is Mohammed Al Fayed so where this “white monopoly” idea comes from I don’t know. It’s a rich man’s monopoly as simple as that.

“I spoke to another taking his UEFA 'A' badge. There were 30 on that course but only one black player, the former Charlton Athletic and England left back, Chris Powell.”

So 3% of people on that course were black then, over representative of the amount of black people in the population and probably close to the figure of black football players 20 years ago.

"One of the problems, then, is not simply that club chairmen are not selecting black players for managerial jobs. It is also that they do not have many to choose from".

Although I agree with the overall statement, I resent the way Oliver Holt has used “it is also” in the second sentence which implies that Chairman are indeed not selecting black players for managerial jobs for reasons other than just their rareness. Paul Ince, Carlton Palmer, John Barnes ect prove that chairmen do give jobs to black candidates. Frank Rijkaard even shows that the “overtly racist” Spanish chairmen aren’t all bad.

“The question moves then to why black players are not enrolling on the coaching courses.

Is it because they don't have any successful role models to emulate, because they have heard too many tales of rejection to want to tread that path themselves?

Or is it because most of them are not interested in management and want to pursue careers in other branches of football?"

Oliver Holt, a professional journalist is using a false dichotomy to prove a point, whatever next? So that’s it then, Holt’s extensive research has been enough to exclude the infinite amount of other possibilities down to just these two reasons as to why there aren’t more black people in coaching.

"The second option seems like too much of a generalisation to me, something dangerously close to the idea that black players may not have 'the necessities' to make good managers that was once put forward by LA Dodgers general manager Al Campanis 20 years ago."

OK so we have our answer, because Oliver holt doesn’t like the sound of one of his options he discards it. So that leaves us with the rejection by implied racist chairmen, point proved eh?

Seriously, Oliver don’t ever become a scientist because you r methodology and selection criteria are awful.

"In fact, the NFL puts English football to shame in its attempts to give former black athletes a chance to make it into management as well.

Of the NFL's 32 teams, seven have an African-American head coach."

Percentage of Black people in the USA: 12.85% (source: CIA World Fact Book)

Therefore they have a much bigger ethnic group and thus likelihood for representation than here in the UK. Furthermore, when the NFL merged with the AFL in 1970 they already had 30% of players of black origin. It is no surprise that they are roughly representing that amount of coaches now.

"TheNFL also has a rule that for every senior position that arises in one of its team - be it the head coach or a position in its front office - a candidate from an ethnic minority has to be included among the list of interviewees.

Sadly, the Premier League is too busy making money and trying desperately not to do anything to upset the status quo to think of doing anything that innovative.

It's not positive discrimination.

There's no obligation to hire the person. It's just giving someone a chance to put his case and try to impress."

Firstly it is positive discrimination. Even being considered for such a high profile position is an honour and a rarity in most people’s careers, forcing boards to interview ethnic minority candidates means that sometimes a better candidate would be dropped, a person that may have impressed given the chance that was taken away because he wasn't from an athnic minority.

Secondly it is pointless; in most cases inappropriate candidates will have to go to interviews for jobs they’re not going to get and if there are any racist chairmen they will continue to hire the white candidate regardless.

Thirdly it is entirely impractical in this country. Take Blackburn this week, they would not have been able to get Sam Allardyce in so quickly were they forced to interview a black candidate and who would it be right now anyway? It’s unworkable, will make whoever gets interviewed look stupid and would be viewed as a legislated form of tokenism.

"The brutal reality is that in England, black former players hardly ever even get that chance.

Now that Ince has been sacked after 17 games at Blackburn, they must wonder if they ever will."

Oliver's opening gambit tells of how Ince was sacked for being a poor manager and not for being black and yet he is now arguing that the sacking of a black manager will put them off or discourage them. But Oliver if they’ve read your article they’ll know it’s bad managers and not black managers that get sacked, that’s what you explained first right?

As for black former players not getting the chance well I have named quite a few in my replies. I note Andy Cole’s enthusiasm for coaching in a recent interview too and I would expect a similar rise in the amount of black coaches and managers over the next 10 years that we saw in the playing staff 20 years ago.

The trouble with Oliver Holt’s argument is that it is 20 years too late. I cannot deny that there is no racism in football as I can’t prove it but nor has Holt proved there is. When I say “prove” I mean with facts and logic not with unrelated stats and assumption.

I find it sad that Oliver Holt has chosen the sacking of Ince to promote himself as some kind of poster boy for ethnic rights in an area where there is no real evidence of racism. Maybe he should be commissioned to some of the poorer war torn countries where racism is rife and very evident. At the very least he should research his subject more carefully and I’d be interested to see a proper investigation into the realities of the argument.

[Stuart]

Cheers Drog. It's the hypocrisy that gets me. Although I can't help feeling he has a great dislike of Rovers. Is he a Man U fan? Might explain his resentment for us and Jack, considering we ran them close for a few years. or maybe he's just an ass...

[American]

For what it's worth I emailed a contact in the press on that subject and here's his reply. btw First paragraph was general chat so I've omitted a lump of it.........

Hi Gordon,

Sorry for the delay in replying. Crazy week:

Writing this on my phone in the taxi home, hence the odd hour it is getting

emailed.......

.......... I wouldn't bother reading Oliver Holt. His mum, who plays Emily Bishop on

Coronation Street, would make a better pundit.

You're right, there are very few non-white people on sports desks or in the

national newspapers generally. We had four non-white guys out of about 20

people on the sports desk today, but that is unusually high and when I

worked at the Evening Standard the figure was none, in three years.

I guess the thing with race and football is that with so many black players

visible on the pitch, it is conspicuous that there are few moving into the

dugouts.

I think Ince did good jobs at Macclesfield and MK Dons, and will get more

chances. But that Blackburn's decision was entirely understandable.

Everyone would like it if managers got longer, but those days are gone,

with a) what's at stake and the transfer window system meaning that you

need to get a new man in with time to spare if he is to shake up a squad.

Allardyce talked about one of his first tasks as assessing the squad, of

course, and you need time to do it before the window opens.

Ince should look for a Championship job. Repeat his success at Macclesfield

and MK Dons, get promotion back to the top flight, and learn from his

struggles. Blackburn needed a shake-up and Allardyce will deliver it.

Merry Christmas,

So there you go jisty ...... Get into him.

I'd say a very fair and balanced assessment of the situation.

[shadsworth cloud]

the ethnic make up of britain is 92% white, 2% black, 4% "asian" (presumably indian/pakistani/bangladeshi) and 2% "other" (??)

Source: Office of national statistics

so in the context of what oliver holt was writing (where he uses "black" as shorthand for not white) the correct percentage is 8% not the 2% yu repeatedly quote.

and that would equate to 7 professional managers (not the 1 at macclesfield) and 7 chief executives (not the zero)

its nowt to do with ince, but you can't deny that there is a lack of diversity in the top levels of english football

[BuckyRover]

the ethnic make up of britain is 92% white, 2% black, 4% "asian" (presumably indian/pakistani/bangladeshi) and 2% "other" (??)

Source: Office of national statistics

so in the context of what oliver holt was writing (where he uses "black" as shorthand for not white) the correct percentage is 8% not the 2% yu repeatedly quote.

and that would equate to 7 professional managers (not the 1 at macclesfield) and 7 chief executives (not the zero)

its nowt to do with ince, but you can't deny that there is a lack of diversity in the top levels of english football

Hold on to your hats. That statement will put a few backs up.

I entirely agree with you shadsworth. Although not sure what can be done about it.

Im not sure it is racism, I think it is elitism. The people who go to Eton/Oxford/Cambridge are the people who end up as the top Doctors/Lawyers/Chief Executives. Unfortunately if you are not already in that elite group, it is very difficult to enter it.

[Stuart]

the ethnic make up of britain is 92% white, 2% black, 4% "asian" (presumably indian/pakistani/bangladeshi) and 2% "other" (??)

Source: Office of national statistics

so in the context of what oliver holt was writing (where he uses "black" as shorthand for not white) the correct percentage is 8% not the 2% yu repeatedly quote.

and that would equate to 7 professional managers (not the 1 at macclesfield) and 7 chief executives (not the zero)

its nowt to do with ince, but you can't deny that there is a lack of diversity in the top levels of english football

If colour wasn't the most obvious distinction - in spite of it's complete irrelevance - then it could be said that there is a lack of young inexperienced managers in the Premier League, and those who get there don't last long. Perhaps the truth of it is simply that it is almost impossible to be a young Premier League manager without bringing a team up from the Championship, e.g. Phil Brown, but even he has served his time as a Premier League number 2.

It's a strange argument that the ethnic diversity of a population should translate directly to all facets of life. After all, we all have different interests and priorities.

[thenodrog]

“I spoke to another taking his UEFA 'A' badge. There were 30 on that course but only one black player, the former Charlton Athletic and England left back, Chris Powell.”

Well done Chris Powell........ we couldn't get our buggger to go at any price!

I think Ince's unfathomable reluctance to attend the coaching course, (especially after gaining special dispensation from EVERY Prem chairman and therefore rubbing all their noses in it to boot ) plus his abysmal performance whilst in charge of BRFC will hardly have helped the 'black manager' cause will it? In fact he will no doubt have hindered it.

Maybe Holt should in fact be writing in criticism of Ince for letting down other black wannabee managers?

[Stuart]

Maybe Holt should in fact be writing in criticism of Ince for letting down other black wannabee managers?

I think there's more chance of Holt growing a third arsehole.

[Jan]

the ethnic make up of britain is 92% white, 2% black, 4% "asian" (presumably indian/pakistani/bangladeshi) and 2% "other" (??)

Source: Office of national statistics

so in the context of what oliver holt was writing (where he uses "black" as shorthand for not white) the correct percentage is 8% not the 2% yu repeatedly quote.

and that would equate to 7 professional managers (not the 1 at macclesfield) and 7 chief executives (not the zero)

its nowt to do with ince, but you can't deny that there is a lack of diversity in the top levels of english football

No he wasn't. He was using "black" as in black. This is because the subject of Asians etc in football is something else entirely. Given the complete non-representation of Asians at, I think, ANY level in the game, that is entirely different from "black".

Therefore the 2% is absolutely correct.