[Archived] Wigan Away Preview 13th December

[Majiball]

I was at the match, the support from the fans was excellent. The fans left the players in no doubt that they were supporting them and the club and not the manager.

I heard from two reliable sources that (edit)- in their opinion - the players were playing to lose, they are not happy with the manager or the training methods which are apparently basically running around the field a couple of times. It also seems that agents are busy touting around ourplayers looking for new clubs for them.

Our club is on the brink of being ruined. The manager must go immediately, enough is enough.

Would not surprise me in the slightest.

Firstly us the fans, well its always us that suffer. What is going on at our club? we read about how behind the manager the players are, about how they will fight and scrap and we get that.

We are the most poorly organised side in the league.

We have no width, it does not change when we have possession, we are just over half a pitch wide all the time. our winger play more as inside rights. We are devoid of ideas our players do not look to create space, we have no interchange. I will be surprised if we score ten more goals all season.

We lost yesterday because of a bad start. That bad start as I said yesterday before my mission to drink Liverpool dry commenced, was caused by our management team.

I wish to explain my comments about the warm up.

I'm fairly sure most on here understand the concept of a warm-up and what its meant to do.

1.) Pass the ball in a triangle one touch. - very low-intensity session. No challenge for players of our ability, this session needs something to make them think, and make decisions just as they would in a a game. They will not even have to check where he is, it is pre-programmed they will slip into auto-pilot.

2.) Running up and down, medium intensity, just so you all know the coach did not stretch the trunk area or the arms he missed them. 1 min jogging was followed by one minute of players doing the stretches they wanted, some didn't even stretch. This is the part that you want to really get them working they didn't even do s full blown sprint.

3.) Next 5 min possession three teams two keep possession the third chases down. Now at the half way point this is the first time that we created a situation that the players would have in the game, however. Anyone who has played has done these drills a thousand times knows how to play the game. When you have possession you pass it round the outside in a circle so you are always one step ahead. When doing this you don't need to move no physical exertion. Now at the same time how challenging do you think that is to our players, they could do that in there sleep.

You'll notice a lot of teams do this, however the session can be redesigned to better simulate a game. The current session has no point retain the ball, you do not do that in football. In football you retain the ball with the focus of getting it into goalscoring opportunity. Putting some players on the outside would help stop the passing in a circle, goals something. Its obvious to me we do a lot of this its reflected in our play we retain the ball and pass it round well at times but we have no focus to it.

4.) Next they all got in a square and passed the ball round to the right over and over with a lay-off in it. Repetitive drivel. You do the same pass every time, no variation no decisions to be made, you will slip into auto-pilot. This is exactly what they did they have had 15 Min's so far of sessions they could play with there eyes closed. After your pass a short jog in the direction the ball went was done. Low-intensity, players spend more time stood still waiting than playing.

5.) Now whilst most fans where enjoying watching our lads strike some shots on goal I almost cried and a beer was sought out. why spend 15 Min's in a vain attempt to raise our players core temperature and then have them stand in a line holding a ball!!! what a waste. Chip the ball into the coach he sets you up and you strike on goal. Now whilst I like the inclusion of shooting most clubs don't practice this in a warm-up. Do it in a different scenario add mini goals into the possession section. Do not have our players stand round doing SFA their bodies are no where near peek temperature, they where not ready. while they are standing round for most of the last ten minutes there core temp muscle temp have all started dropping back down, its a bit like going back in 30 minutes before kick-off.

After this they went in 20 Min's before kick-off, so a long chat before the game, great info overload. We never had a chance yesterday the game was lost before kick off in our managements poor excuse for preparation "fail to prepare, prepare to fail".

Cold start to the most important game in our recent history, what where you thinking Ince did your party life-style hang-overs could your memory? How can you have been at the level you have and not even think would that get me in the right frame of mind/physical condition?

Thorough manager my arse, thoroughly incompetent and out of his depth, it shows.

If thats the warm-up the day to day training must be of similar low quality, its a disgrace to the elite game, it has no place in the modern game. Modern coaching has moved to the creation of sessions that re-create game situations on varying scales. You must put players in situations that challenge their heads as much as there feet IE choices, decisions. Re-create situations from a game, so visually they can relate it to a game scenario and then make the right/wrong choice. If players can constantly recognise scenarios in a game that they have done in training they will be in a better position, to make the correct choice in the game as "they" will have figured it out by re-hearsing it in training.

Our coaching is a joke I have no doubt after yesterday I question the ability of all of our back-room team if thats their best effort as we where lead to believe, disgraceful.

We are going down. Change is required I could design a better warm-up and I'm not joking I'd be prepared to do it the players can be the judges.

WILLIAMS ACT NOW AFTER WHAT I SAW TODAY OUR YOUTH COACHES COULD DO A BETTER JOB, SOD IT I COULD, MOST ON HERE COULD, YOU PROBABLY COULD JW.

We have gone from the modern tafia to the Neanderthal nob's, you must see the difference JW, your a clever man think about it.

I'd rather have the wally with the brolly than the clown with a frown, sack him.

EDIT: Quote from Ince "As for Blackburn's dreadful first-half display, Ince said: 'If you go two down in 12 minutes, it doesn't matter whether you are Fabio Capello or Sir Alex Ferguson, you're up against it. " No because neither of those two would have sent there players out as you did to be in the position in the first place!!!!

[speeeeeeedie]

I waited all day to watch this game without knowing the result. After 15 minutes I wondered why I'd bothered. They showed some passion, but they clearly have no confidence nor ideas. Warnock was at fault for the first 2; that's 3 goals he's cost us in the last 2 games - and I wanted him to go back to full back! After that it was a dull game where we huffed and puffed with no cutting edge.

I went to Wigan 2 seasons ago when we rolled them 3-0; 5,000 away fans, lots of singing, and some great goals. Oh how times have changed.

[trs]

Dinnis is shocked that the fans are clapping the players and that the players must also take some of the blame for our plight.

I left with 4 mins to go for 2 reasons.

To make the 17.12 train, but more importantly, I was dreading to see what would happen at the final whistle.

Yes I want Ince out, actually never wanted the fella from the begining, but I would love to tell them F****** from 1 to 11 to ..............

[BuckyRover]

Sorry Paul. You have got to go. They only way we will know whether it is you or the players is if we give somebody else a go. That was our opportunity to put in a performance and we failed miserably.

[broadsword]

Sorry Paul. You have got to go. They only way we will know whether it is you or the players is if we give somebody else a go. That was our opportunity to put in a performance and we failed miserably.

Isn't he the man to get us promoted out of teh champioship though?

[BuckyRover]

You might be right unfortunately, there aren't many managers who would join us at the moment, we are a poisoned chalice. That is why we ended up with Ince in the first place. No money and players that just don't care. A terrible situation. Successful past few years with no chance of replication.

[LDRover]

Sorry Paul. You have got to go. They only way we will know whether it is you or the players is if we give somebody else a go. That was our opportunity to put in a performance and we failed miserably.

And did you not also say you're happy that while we're all calling for his head there's no chance that he'll get sacked?

[BuckyRover]

When I thought that our only very bad performance against a team around us was Sunderland. After yesterday that is no longer the case. The players had a chance yesterday to show what we they were made of and it was embarassing. I have no idea who could save this team.

I still think people judged too soon but they have ultimately been proved right. There can be no argument after yesterday.

Then again if for whatever reason the board don't act and we beat Stoke and Sunderland then I would be happier, but after yesterday I can't see that being the case

[MI ROVER]

Stayed out of the way of the result and watched delayed coverage last night. What an absolute shambles no pride or passion we are going down with the West Brom and will not return for years. Players are playing like they don't want to be here Warnock was awful but far from the worst. Ooijer is a centre half not a right back and if reports are to be believed wants to go back to Holland Emerton is a right back not a right midfielder he has shown that for 3 or 4 seasons b4 Hughes put him right back. Pedersen played poor last season and has continued the same form yesterday he was truly awful only a couple of seasons ago he scored a real cracker at Wigan. Andrews wouldn't get a game at Accy Stanley how many times did he aimlessly give up possession I wouldn't mind if he got stuck and tried to rough up the opposition but nobody can even do that. Santa Cruz has given up the ghost we didn't create a decent opening for him until injury time in fact the only time Kirkland was stretched was an header from his own defender. Derbyshire gets shifted about the field but for some reason only seems effective in a game when coming on from the bench. The only player to have any credit was Dunn you can tell he has pride and passion and actually attempted to put the foot in and chase down the opposition and push the team forward.

Then I switch on SSN for Inces words of wisdom this week. Hmmm we will review Mon or Tues... no get them in on Sunday !! not been given the money spend looking forward to Jan to freshen things up a new manager generaly gets 7 new players he states robinson/grella/simpson/andrews/fowler well thats five 3 out of the 5 are clearly not up to the task I have only seen Grella once so can't make a judgment on one game and I am hoping robinson is just suffering from the ineptness in front of him. Didn't he sign another goalkeeper also ?

Ince be a man admit you and your selected management team are out of your collective depths. Walk away and allow someone else enough time to right the ship we must win the next 2 games to stand any chance of staying up at all.

A message to JW - Fellow premiership managers will support Ince its nailed on 3 points when you play the rovers keeping their job safe much like when we took 3 points at newcastle in September remember that our last premiership win. The press have never liked rovers and will love to see rovers relegated and never to return so will support Ince until the job is done.

[BuckyRover]

Sorry Bucky, did we turn into a Tottenham/Newcastle overnight or something? Let's be real about it - the chairman and board only really want survival as the main target. Anything else is a bonus. I'm certain with the current crop of players that this is achievable without being a fantastic manager.

I think Rovers have proved to be non-poisoned chalice team - look where some of our 'big' names have gone onto. Barring Alan Shearer, who else went on to better things?

Maybe. Maybe I'm just being negative. I just feel we need some inspirational signings and on our budget I don't know how that can happen.

[LDRover]

When I thought that our only very bad performance against a team around us was Sunderland. After yesterday that is no longer the case. The players had a chance yesterday to show what we they were made of and it was embarassing. I have no idea who could save this team.

I still think people judged too soon but they have ultimately been proved right. There can be no argument after yesterday.

Then again if for whatever reason the board don't act and we beat Stoke and Sunderland then I would be happier, but after yesterday I can't see that being the case

I think we'll struggle against Blyth Spartans or Bournemouth, Bucky.

[BuckyRover]

Unfortunately I think you are correct. I hope they prove me wrong (again).

I have even resorted to considering the "benefits" of relegation. Not a good sign.....

[gazsimm]

worse performance i have seen from a bunch of rovers players for a long while. Ince has not got a clue, he was playing at least 4 players out of postion yesterday. He is a joke and thanks to him we will be playing championship football next season unless he is sacked now!!!

[Athlete]

worse performance i have seen from a bunch of rovers players for a long while. Ince has not got a clue, he was playing at least 4 players out of postion yesterday. He is a joke and thanks to him we will be playing championship football next season unless he is sacked now!!!

totally agree thats the worst since getting beat 4-1 off shrewsbury a few days before the Liverpool away replay when again we got beat 3-0 many moons ago .

Yesterday was a total shambles players didnt know where they playing and didnt seem to be too bothered against I may add very poor oposition .

before the game I was optimistic as if we were going too win 1 it was that but after 12 mins 2 down too wigan is absolutely shocking ! The defence ? what defence ? was a complete joke it wasnt until the introduction off Dunn theat we had any commitment or urgencey . Jason roberts comes on on the wing ? WTF ?

INCE OUT

[RevidgeBlue]

The players must take a lot of responsibility for yesterday's embarrasment, as roversmum said it appeared as though the players were playing to get Ince sacked.

I feel a bit of sympathy for Ince to the extent that how can you legislate for someone like MGP putting in his best performance for two years against Liverpool and then putting in such an abysmal performance just seven days later?

To my mind, anyone thinking a new manager is going to come in and our fortunes will just miraculously transform are living in cloud cuckoo land. Nelsen has just gone and is so poor these days it's embarrasing. No-one is going to turn him into a Premiership level performer again. It's embarrasing that we're still having to rely on a 38 year old in midfield at this level and certain of our other midfield options like Andrews, Mokoena and Vogel aren't good enough at this level either. Several of the other players look like they're hoping they'll be elsewhere in January and I can only presume that Roque in particular agreed a deal in principle to go elsewhere before the United Cup Tie because he hasn't put in a stroke of effort in the three games since.

I thought the Club had hit a new low when Fowler was booed by both sets of fans during his warm up against United. In my view we surpassed that yesterday with both sets of fans directing a rousing chorus of "Sacked in the morning" towards Ince and our fans generally falling out with each other. Responsibility for this must lie with the Board who had the opportunity to either sack or back Ince after the United and Liverpool games. Unfortunately they did neither whilst leaving the clear impression that they didn't really have any confidence in him, undermining him in the process.

The ultimate responsibility for our position though must lie with the owners. If I hear "This is the side that finished seventh last season." one more time I'll scream. There has been no net investment in the squad for the last six years and ultimately it has caught up with us. Certainly if Hughes had still been here, our decline wouldn't have been as stark, but the owners clearly didn't realise when they were on to a good thing with him and eventually he couldn't wait to get away before it was too late. Make no mistake, this team has been on the slide ever since Savage was injured and not replaced.

Now we're in a situation whereby we've managed to get ourselves five points adrift of safety and I can't see any top drawer manager wanting to risk their reputations with:

a) Ourselves and West Brom seemingly in danger of "doing a Derby"

b ) No significant financial backing seemingly available in January despite our predicament

What a situation. I suppose if we do go down the Trustees will conduct a fire sale of any saleable players and get their money in for the club that way and John Williams will move onto the next high paid job leaving behind the supporters to survey what is left of the wreckage.

Jack Walker deserved so much better from the people in whom he placed his trust and ownership of the Club. Especially after putting his heart and soul into it to such an extent when he was alive.

[1864roverite]

Revidge lad

Glad to see you have finally succumbed to the notion that Andrews is NOT good enough for our team or indeed this league.

Now you only have to say the words "Ince out" and I will buy you a pint or offer you a sweet on sSaturday at the game in an offering of a truce

now then, thats Rev, wheres Waggy

[roversWASmylife]

As Sir Alan Sugar tells his apprentices,"you don't have a bloody clue" and you don't Ince.

Yesterday was one of the most embarrassing performances I've ever seen. The players played for Ince to go, there wasn't even anyone wanting to battle all be it Derbyshire and Andrews running round like a headless chicken.

Not good enough, nobody in the centre of midfield who's got a pair to get the ball down and play it. Tugay made some woeful passes in the middle, no protection to the back four. Warnock for some reason looked like he didn't give one, what he was playing at yesterday I don't know. Nelsen and Samba look as if they've never played together and Samba's a bloody clown what he was doing for Wigan's first.

I can't remember really testing Kirkland we had a spell of about two minutes pressure in the second half and that's as pathetic it got. Ince's post match comments don't surprise me I can't take the man serious.

The fans IMO have got a right to voice their opinion. The players weren't good enough and some don't deserve to wear the shirt, any other proffession and Ince is sacked.

Worrying times, Ince should go but JW is a brave man for believing in him. Next week is a massive game but I can't see us getting a win from anywhere. Stoke are going to battle and at the rate some of the players are playing we'll crumble again.

Somehow I think Ince has got another game.

[Paul Mellelieu]

I think Rev gets the right balance between some of the longer term financial issues unravelling at the club and the role Ince and his squad have played in recent weeks. It's certainly a thoughtful and refreshing departure from the monotomous drone of most posters here.

And as far as I can remember Rev called for Ince to go after the United game.

Change is needed because doing nothing will only lead to one outcome. We may have a slender chance of staying up is someone like BFS comes in and is able to bring in a few cut-price fighters.

[Stuart]

Just read RevidgeBlue's post and feel physically sick. Whilst I agree with your observations about the game yesterday, you've painted a clear picture of doom for us with no hope whatsoever.

Surely at some point, probably January - be it too late or not - the owners will have to spend some money to invest in the team. The question is if this does happen, would you trust Ince to spend it?

As for Nelsen, he needs a spell on the bench, and probably Dunn promoted to captain. We have other options at CB, namely Ooijer and Zurab. They get some unfair criticism on account of being constantly played out of position - particularly Andre.

All hope can't be lost, can it??

[RevidgeBlue]

Just read RevidgeBlue's post and feel physically sick. Whilst I agree with your observations about the game yesterday, you've painted a clear picture of doom for us with no hope whatsoever.

All hope can't be lost, can it??

Certainly not, if a new manager came in he might be able to get us a lot better organised defensively which is the root of all our problems. In fact I'm not sure why Ince and his team don't seem able to improve things at all in that respect.

We've now conceded fourteen goals in the last four games!!

You know that old joke about a bloke ringing Turf Moor and asking what time the Clarets kick off and getting the reply "Every ten minutes."

That's us that is.

Back to the reply, I wouldn't say there's no hope, I'm simply pointing out that I don't think it is a foregone conclusion that we'll stay up if Ince is potted and a new man comes in.

[Ozz]

I haven't seen a full game since Bolton, but parts here and there and highlights etc. However, I was told by three spearate friends who went yesterday that the most appropriate description of the payers performance was HEADLESS CHICKENS.

The clock is ticking Mr Williams, don't extend Mr Inces and our agony any longer, time for action NOW.

[Rover4ever]

There has been no net investment in the squad for the last six years and ultimately it has caught up with us. Certainly if Hughes had still been here, our decline wouldn't have been as stark, but the owners clearly didn't realise when they were on to a good thing with him and eventually he couldn't wait to get away before it was too late. Make no mistake, this team has been on the slide ever since Savage was injured and not replaced.

excellent points, we would never have come 7th this season even if Hughes were with us. We have had a serious problem in our midfield, which wasnt apparent last season due to Bentley and Santa's goals.

You cannot expect to be among the lowest net spenders year in year out, and yet expect to be in the Top 10 every year. It happened thrice in recent years, and we overchieved in all of them.

That said, Ince's mismanagement has meant we are stranded in 19th rather than 10th - 12th which would be a natural position for us

[thenodrog]

Make no mistake, this team has been on the slide ever since Savage was injured and not replaced.

Impossible to argue with that. The decline / malaise started before Ince came imo but we all know now that he was the wrong appointment and his ineptitude has done nothing but accelerate it since.

[Mr Creosote]

The players must take a lot of responsibility for yesterday's embarrasment, as roversmum said it appeared as though the players were playing to get Ince sacked.

I feel a bit of sympathy for Ince to the extent that how can you legislate for someone like MGP putting in his best performance for two years against Liverpool and then putting in such an abysmal performance just seven days later?

To my mind, anyone thinking a new manager is going to come in and our fortunes will just miraculously transform are living in cloud cuckoo land. Nelsen has just gone and is so poor these days it's embarrasing. No-one is going to turn him into a Premiership level performer again. It's embarrasing that we're still having to rely on a 38 year old in midfield at this level and certain of our other midfield options like Andrews, Mokoena and Vogel aren't good enough at this level either. Several of the other players look like they're hoping they'll be elsewhere in January and I can only presume that Roque in particular agreed a deal in principle to go elsewhere before the United Cup Tie because he hasn't put in a stroke of effort in the three games since.

I thought the Club had hit a new low when Fowler was booed by both sets of fans during his warm up against United. In my view we surpassed that yesterday with both sets of fans directing a rousing chorus of "Sacked in the morning" towards Ince and our fans generally falling out with each other. Responsibility for this must lie with the Board who had the opportunity to either sack or back Ince after the United and Liverpool games. Unfortunately they did neither whilst leaving the clear impression that they didn't really have any confidence in him, undermining him in the process.

The ultimate responsibility for our position though must lie with the owners. If I hear "This is the side that finished seventh last season." one more time I'll scream. There has been no net investment in the squad for the last six years and ultimately it has caught up with us. Certainly if Hughes had still been here, our decline wouldn't have been as stark, but the owners clearly didn't realise when they were on to a good thing with him and eventually he couldn't wait to get away before it was too late. Make no mistake, this team has been on the slide ever since Savage was injured and not replaced.

Now we're in a situation whereby we've managed to get ourselves five points adrift of safety and I can't see any top drawer manager wanting to risk their reputations with:

a) Ourselves and West Brom seemingly in danger of "doing a Derby"

b ) No significant financial backing seemingly available in January despite our predicament

What a situation. I suppose if we do go down the Trustees will conduct a fire sale of any saleable players and get their money in for the club that way and John Williams will move onto the next high paid job leaving behind the supporters to survey what is left of the wreckage.

Jack Walker deserved so much better from the people in whom he placed his trust and ownership of the Club. Especially after putting his heart and soul into it to such an extent when he was alive.

Over to you "iamarover"

[RevidgeBlue]

Impossible to argue with that. The decline / malaise started before Ince came imo but we all know now that he was the wrong appointment and his ineptitude has done nothing but accelerate it since.

Can't argue with that either.