[Archived] Wigan Away Preview 13th December

[waggy]

What about Sunderland then Waggy, they've had two excellent results since ridding themselves of Keane.

This is basically the same team that finished 7th last year, we can't have turned in to no-hopers already.

sunderland stuffed us at ewood?

[AussieinUk]

did you go to the game.are we going to appiont redknapp,spurs have a far superior squad than us.any manager worth his salt will want big money to spen because the players are poor.and going on a jolly to dublin just puts the lid on it

Bit hard from sunny Oz waggy.. but I did watch the game and still have it recorded.

As I mentioned at the end of the game on this thread.. Emerton and Dunn were the only two players that stood out from a poor bunch. Oojier was slightly better than the rest, but not by much IMV.

Apart from two positions we are the same team as last year. That team can compete at this level, it is just a matter of confidence and cohesive structure. The correct manager can change all that.. that was my point on Redknapp.

I dont agree with the players going on jolly.. but remember some have stayed behind (i.e. RSC to name one) and it is christmas after all

[gumboots]

Bit hard from sunny Oz waggy.. but I did watch the game and still have it recorded.

As I mentioned at the end of the game on this thread.. Emerton and Dunn were the only two players that stood out from a poor bunch. Oojier was slightly better than the rest, but not by much IMV.

Apart from two positions we are the same team as last year. That team can compete at this level, it is just a matter of confidence and cohesive structure. The correct manager can change all that.. that was my point on Redknapp.

I dont agree with the players going on jolly.. but remember some have stayed behind (i.e. RSC to name one) and it is christmas after all

Those were the three players my husband and i agreed were stand outs as at least they were putting effort in. Hard though if 3 of you are trying to do what 11 should be.

[AussieinUk]

Downhearted, disillusioned , disappointed -36D so what!!!

How many more d's do I need

Just the one - DOWN - because that is exactly where we are going and I honestly think it.

Capt K, I had a few more that I added a few days ago, that you missed

Dejected, Disgusted and Demoralised…

Those were the three players my husband and i agreed were stand outs as at least they were putting effort in. Hard though if 3 of you are trying to do what 11 should be.

Indeed gb. We can still turn this around, as long as Ince is out and he takes his backroom clowns with him.

[Hughesy]

it's not the team thats the problem,your having a bloody laugh,they were pathetic on saturday and if you can't see that you need help.if incey was sacked a new manager needs at least 6 new players,30 million pounds that the board will never release,no one can survive with the players we have

Maybe the players dont want Ince?? Strange that they had this meeting about putting it right, yet played so crap?? Maybe at the players meeting they decided they would get Ince out???

Im sorry but our current squad is not even close to being the 2nd worst in the league. We have some class players, who on their day can do anything they want - problem is they are out of form, confidence and like I said dont seem to care much for the manager - Me neither!!

INCE IS THE PROBLEM

[Roost]

Capt K, I had a few more that I added a few days ago, that you missed

I had a 'doubler' - was Dog Dirt

[CAPT KAYOS]

yet played so crap??

That's the thing Hughesy - it wasn't just crap - they just didn't play at all - there was absolutely nothing from most of them - no idea, no urgency, no determination , ball watching, staionary players, misplaced passes - clueless absolutely clueless

You could have put 11 of the tanked up santa's on the pitch and I guarantee they would have had more chances than we did

[Exiled in Toronto]

I've just got round to watching my recording of the game. The only possible explanation for the 2nd goal is that Warnock was deliberately throwing the game: I have never seen a full back at any level - even mine - do what he did.

I'm with Waggy, this team is crap. And for all those who keep saying that a team can't decline from 7th to where we are:

1969 - we declined from 8th to relegation under the same manager

1997 - we declined from 6th to relegation under Hodgson (Kidd made no difference)

Ipswich: 6th to relegation

Reading 8th to relegation (same manager)

It happens all the time. Thinking Ince is the only problem is ludicrous in my view.

[waggy]

you should have posted that in the ince thread,the guys on there think merlin is about to appear

[Exiled in Toronto]

We'll see how many of the current team feature in the new man's plans; I'm betting Ooijer, Samba, Bert, Dunny.

[tony gale's mic]

I've just got round to watching my recording of the game. The only possible explanation for the 2nd goal is that Warnock was deliberately throwing the game: I have never seen a full back at any level - even mine - do what he did.

I'm with Waggy, this team is crap. And for all those who keep saying that a team can't decline from 7th to where we are:

1969 - we declined from 8th to relegation under the same manager

1997 - we declined from 6th to relegation under Hodgson (Kidd made no difference)

Ipswich: 6th to relegation

Reading 8th to relegation (same manager)

It happens all the time. Thinking Ince is the only problem is ludicrous in my view.

Ipswich and Reading weren't established top 10 sides like we were were they?! In 1997 we were in a constant decline since we won the title and '69...well I wasn't around then so can't comment. You could've put Ipswich and Reading's top 10 finishes down to the "beginners luck" you often see in the league, but the fact we were there for 3 seasons in a row and 4 seasons out of 6 (including 3 times in the top 6) indicates we were there on merit.

Ince was the main problem, yes the players must shoulder some of the blame. But look at his signings. Look at his tactics. Look at how many players he was playing out of position. Look at the continued selection of Andrews and non-selection of Vogel. Look at his defeatist mindset as displayed in his interviews. The man was a cancer on our club. I think it's fair to say most players would find it hard to perform to their expected standards under those conditions.

And if you find yourself agreeing with waggy at any point on this board I think you'll find you're most probably in the wrong.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Ipswich and Reading weren't established top 10 sides like we were were they?! In 1997 we were in a constant decline since we won the title and '69...well I wasn't around then so can't comment. You could've put Ipswich and Reading's top 10 finishes down to the "beginners luck" you often see in the league, but the fact we were there for 3 seasons in a row and 4 seasons out of 6 (including 3 times in the top 6) indicates we were there on merit.

Ince was the main problem, yes the players must shoulder some of the blame. But look at his signings. Look at his tactics. Look at how many players he was playing out of position. Look at the continued selection of Andrews and non-selection of Vogel. Look at his defeatist mindset as displayed in his interviews. The man was a cancer on our club. I think it's fair to say most players would find it hard to perform to their expected standards under those conditions.

And if you find yourself agreeing with waggy at any point on this board I think you'll find you're most probably in the wrong.

So to summarise your 'argument': the table lies when it doesn't suit your PoV.

In Hodgson's first season we were top in Nov - TOP! Hardly a consistent decline from '95. 12 months later we were bottom with essentially the same team. No-one in 69 thought we would go from 8th to relegation as the 8th was a huge disappointment having been chasing promotion for most of that season.

When you have watched the Rovers for as long as both Waggy and I, you will see situations that you have witnessed before. Good teams can go bad very quickly. We'll have a surge under the new manager - Kidd got us to 13th - but let's see where the likes of Warnock have us in March.

[tony gale's mic]

So to summarise your 'argument': the table lies when it doesn't suit your PoV.

In Hodgson's first season we were top in Nov - TOP! Hardly a consistent decline from '95. 12 months later we were bottom with essentially the same team. No-one in 69 thought we would go from 8th to relegation as the 8th was a huge disappointment having been chasing promotion for most of that season.

When you have watched the Rovers for as long as both Waggy and I, you will see situations that you have witnessed before. Good teams can go bad very quickly. We'll have a surge under the new manager - Kidd got us to 13th - but let's see where the likes of Warnock have us in March.

No, but Ipswich and Reading finishing in those places as a one-off were different to a side finishing top 10 3 seasons in a row and top 6 3 times in the last 6 seasons. That's hardly changing to suit my POV is it? Look at our defence which has arguably been the biggest contributing factor to our downfall - it's been among the top 10 in the league for the last 3 seasons (last season it matched our position of 7th), and this season its the worst...despite us not losing any of our defence. When the only thing we've changed is the new manager (who brought in Winterburn) I fail to see how you can argue that it isn't mainly the manager's fault.

Rovers between 1990 and 1999 were a complete exception, you wouldnt have thought an immediately promoted side would go and challenge for the title so soon and you wouldve have thought a side that won the title that soon would end up in the situation we were in. That was a pretty unique situation and one thats not particularly comparable to any other club or situation. There was only one example you mentioned ('69) I didn't see.

If Ince hadn't done anything obviously wrong and we were just getting bad results then I might have subscribed to your theory. But the things I listed in my last post (signings, tactics, selection, attitude etc) were so glaringly obviously wrong to us that it's pretty obvious there was more stuff he was messing up behind the scenes that we didnt even know about.