[Archived] Paul Ince Gone

[JAL]

Just going back to the Liverpool game, the Rovers crowd failed abysmally when faced with that second half capitulation, so accustomed they had become to the utter rubbish Ince had been serving up that they let him off because there had been a semi-adequate first half display.

If the crowd had done the decent thing and demanded Ince's head then, he would have been sacked immediately and the chances are we would be half way through a Carling Cup semi-final and not be in a relegation place now.

Hold on philipl your at it again, the crowd dont run the club so called appointed people run the club they make the decisions not the fans.

You're always trying to deflect the criticsm of JW the board and the trustees when its they who should be accountable for making then allowing such poor decisions that went onto severly handicap the first teams ability to compete at premeirship level.

The fans showed support for the club team and all, which is great credit to them, what you are implying shows great weakness of the people running the club.

[Montfort]

Ince said that " as manager he took full responsibility " and then proceeded to blame everyone and everything without taking any responsibility. This is a common trait not just restricted to Ince. It is as if repeating the words " I accept full responsibilty" completely absolves you from everything else. Where was the regret. apology and remorse. ( I dont really anticipate this but it should go with responsibility and failure )

I dont mind anyone putting their problems into context. Ince said that he was hampered by injuries to Reid, Dunn and Grella. However, it should not all be mitigating circumstances. For example he could have said he thought that Fowler could still make a contribution but it did not come off. That would have been taking responsibility for a decision.

[bellamy11]

Just going back to the Liverpool game, the Rovers crowd failed abysmally when faced with that second half capitulation, so accustomed they had become to the utter rubbish Ince had been serving up that they let him off because there had been a semi-adequate first half display.

If the crowd had done the decent thing and demanded Ince's head then, he would have been sacked immediately and the chances are we would be half way through a Carling Cup semi-final and not be in a relegation place now.

That's an outrageous thing to accuse supporters of, especially coming from a stay-away like yourself.

[philipl]

That's an outrageous thing to accuse supporters of, especially coming from a stay-away like yourself.

... but true nonetheless.

[whittle blue]

The guy is arrogant to the point of stupidity.

Topman - I reckon beyond the point of stupidity fits better

Just hearing/seeing his name makes me cringe these days.

John - He made me bloody well cringe from day1 when he was sat next to John Williams at the press conference and made some idiotic remark about us not being in the bottom3 yet.

[BuckyRover]

I understand what you are all saying.

But if I was looking for a new job, I certainly would not be broadcasting all of my previous mistakes all over the media.

Ince made many mistakes, but I think it would be ANOTHER mistake to let everybody know that you previously made lot's of mistakes.

If that makes sense

[tony gale's mic]

I understand what you are all saying.

But if I was looking for a new job, I certainly would not be broadcasting all of my previous mistakes all over the media.

Ince made many mistakes, but I think it would be ANOTHER mistake to let everybody know that you previously made lot's of mistakes.

If that makes sense

True but anyone who even bothers to scratch the surface of his reign would see the countless number of apalling mistakes he made whilst in charge. If they then see him not admitting to his mistakes, this would arguably make him look much worse. Much better to acknowledge you've made mistakes and have learned from them.

[BuckyRover]

I agree with that. I think that it makes you appear more humble. Some people can never do that though.

For example Ferguson, Mourinho and Wenger.

[tony gale's mic]

True but they've earned the right to have an air of arrogance. I actually think that if any of those were in Ince's position they would've admitted their mistakes more readily too.

[BuckyRover]

I think on that point we can agree to agree.

[OscarRaven]

... but true nonetheless.

I would suggest this is one of those occasions where you had to be there to fully understand why we chose to get behind the team with support rather than undermine them by shouting for the managers head.

Faced with 1000's of gloating scousers, pride plays a big part.

[DeadlyDirk]

True but they've earned the right to have an air of arrogance. I actually think that if any of those were in Ince's position they would've admitted their mistakes more readily too.

Fergie and Mourinho would of, Wenger would have made even more excuses than Ince did!

[Paul]

Just going back to the Liverpool game, the Rovers crowd failed abysmally when faced with that second half capitulation, so accustomed they had become to the utter rubbish Ince had been serving up that they let him off because there had been a semi-adequate first half display.

If the crowd had done the decent thing and demanded Ince's head then, he would have been sacked immediately and the chances are we would be half way through a Carling Cup semi-final and not be in a relegation place now.

Sorry philip but this is an outrageous statement. I'm not having a dig at you about attending games but you had to be there to understand why there was no crowd reaction. Those at Ewood recognised there was, for the first time in a while, some real effort in the performance. Now it's true this simply masked the real situation but crowds tend to react instantly to what they see, rather than think "we've been rubbish for months lets chant Ince out to get him sacked." If the performance had been appalling there would have been an anti-Ince reaction, a knee jerk reaction to the particular game. Which is why the board should not make decisions based on the crowd reaction.

TBH blaming the crowd is unacceptable and very surprising coming from yourself. It does you no credit.

[philipl]

Ok I have been deliberately provocative but to make the following points:

- I and a number of other posters argued at the time that the Rovers crowd got behind the team and in the face of 7,000 scousers were hardly going to have a go at Ince

- Unfortunately various people and most significantly Rovers' Chairman misinterpreted the crowd reaction that day as a vox populus support of Ince when it was nothing of the sort

- Wherever it came from is neither here nor there but there followed a strong attempt to completely nullify the voices of those who argued against Ince as electronic warriors who were totally unrepresentative of Rovers' support. That was ridiculous because to the extent there were numbers available there needed to be compelling circumstantial evidence to point to the existence of a vocal minority who held views completely opposed to the majority and such evidence simply did not exist

- We also had newsspeak about the players' positions which again has turned out to be highly dubious. There was a player revolt before the season started and the players were never really won over by Ince personally and remained deeply opposed to his backroom staff, his training regime and his man-management regime.

The mis-reading of the crowd reaction against Liverpool might have cost us points against Wigan but I am absolutely certain it cost us a win at Old Trafford against an under-strength Man U and as straightforward a run to winning a Cup as we are likely to see for quite sometime.

Football is a results business- Rovers capitulated in the second half and lost 1-3 and that should have seen the back of Ince there and then.

[Sysagent]

Hell fire is this thread still going on...

Surely it is time to move on and forget the "Ince Experiment"?

[broadsword]

It's got a long way to run yet.

I suspect if we do go down, then Ince will take teh brunt of the blame.

[thenodrog]

It's got a long way to run yet.

I suspect if we do go down, then Ince will take teh brunt of the blame.

John Williams will cop for most of that imo.

[broadsword]

Maybe, let's hope we don't find out.

[gumboots]

Hell fire is this thread still going on...

Surely it is time to move on and forget the "Ince Experiment"?

My thoughts exactly. I only opened it to see what people were still finding to talk about and find it's the same old rubbish. Time to close it. If we get relegated then we can open a new one about who was to blame. Hopefully we won't and we won't need to.

[thenodrog]

My thoughts exactly. I only opened it to see what people were still finding to talk about

Well don't open it then. How difficult is that? IF people are still posting tghen that justify's it staying open. By the way you are going against the wishes of the minority and bossing folk around I can tell that you are a teacher.

[broadsword]

I think people still need to vent their steam over it.

It was just an unbelievable period in our history, and to think some people wanted to give him until now to turn it round. It will take a long time for it to be forgotten.

Paul Ince has been in the 'papers recently talking about it, so I think we should be allowed to talk about it still.

[BuckyRover]

It's got a long way to run yet.

I suspect if we do go down, then Ince will take teh brunt of the blame.

I will blame Allardyce is we go down. Definitely.

He has more games to turn it around, is more experienced and has had nearly a year off to be scouting players.

I wouldn't call for his head though, he would probably be the best person to get us back up. His first season would still have to be called a failure though.

[Paul]

Ok I have been deliberately provocative

I hope so because otherwise you misread the situation

- I and a number of other posters argued at the time that the Rovers crowd got behind the team and in the face of 7,000 scousers were hardly going to have a go at Ince

The bolded words are the crucial ones, we were backing the team and not Ince. Alright there may have been the odd PI's blue n white army chant but truely that means nothing, it's just a crowd chant. Allardyce got the same thing after 40 minutes, to mean anyhting it has to be earnt. I'm certain if we had been awful the crowd would have truned on Ince. In all honesty I can say there was never, at any game, an Ince Out chant.

- Unfortunately various people and most significantly Rovers' Chairman misinterpreted the crowd reaction that day as a vox populus support of Ince when it was nothing of the sort

Come one we both no JW isn't that stupid

- Wherever it came from is neither here nor there but there followed a strong attempt to completely nullify the voices of those who argued against Ince as electronic warriors who were totally unrepresentative of Rovers' support. That was ridiculous because to the extent there were numbers available there needed to be compelling circumstantial evidence to point to the existence of a vocal minority who held views completely opposed to the majority and such evidence simply did not exist

The anti-Ince majority received far more exposure than those, like me, who asked for a bit of sanity to arise out of the Ince is Pr1ck stuff. In fact I had two threads merged (I understand why), I certainly wasn't trying to nullify anyhting but was asking for a more reasoned discussion than the "Ince ios pr1ck" brigade. It's a bit strong to say the anti-Ince posters were nullified when in fact on this board any attempt to start a vaguely positive thread was merged into the Paul Ince Out thread - those who wanted to wait, for a range of reasons and I never advocated Ince staying in the long term, were almost drowned out. Quite sinisterly perhaps?

- We also had newsspeak about the players' positions which again has turned out to be highly dubious. There was a player revolt before the season started and the players were never really won over by Ince personally and remained deeply opposed to his backroom staff, his training regime and his man-management regime.

This would always happen, we both know the club will "manage" the media, it's why I don't believe a word in the media until I see it on the pitch. 99% of all football related media is rubbish, digging out the 1% worth reading is difficult.

The mis-reading of the crowd reaction against Liverpool might have cost us points against Wigan but I am absolutely certain it cost us a win at Old Trafford against an under-strength Man U and as straightforward a run to winning a Cup as we are likely to see for quite sometime.

Maybe but it will always be a point of conjecture.

[Majiball]

I think people still need to vent their steam over it.

It was just an unbelievable period in our history, and to think some people wanted to give him until now to turn it round. It will take a long time for it to be forgotten.

Paul Ince has been in the 'papers recently talking about it, so I think we should be allowed to talk about it still.

For me its the opportunity that has been lost.

Even though Hughes left we still looked strong and had an opportunity to cement and build on our position as European contenders. Reasonable fund, good squad and so on. But it would seem a catalogue of errors by the club have been compounded and we are back where we were four years ago, its been soul destroying.

But the only way is up.

Paul Ince should shut his gob, he is doing himself no favours bleating on about it. But if you want to carry on Paul I don't mind just bare in mind that all 92 football league chairmen are watching you whine like a 4 year old, I'm sure thats a trait they all look for in potential managers.

Good Luck Job Hunting!! I hear the local wirral hotel is looking for a KP got any experience???

[AndyC]

For me its the opportunity that has been lost.

Even though Hughes left we still looked strong and had an opportunity to cement and build on our position as European contenders. Reasonable fund, good squad and so on. But it would seem a catalogue of errors by the club have been compounded and we are back where we were four years ago, its been soul destroying.

But the only way is up.

Paul Ince should shut his gob, he is doing himself no favours bleating on about it. But if you want to carry on Paul I don't mind just bare in mind that all 92 football league chairmen are watching you whine like a 4 year old, I'm sure thats a trait they all look for in potential managers.

Good Luck Job Hunting!! I hear the local wirral hotel is looking for a KP got any experience???

did you actually watch the full interview on skysports bryan?

he very clearly said that he accepted full responsibility for rovers being at the bottom of the table. that the buck stops with him.

of course he's going to ask for more time, because he believed he could turn things around.