[Archived] Paul Ince Gone

[nowthen]

So he was better than everyone who was injured?

[thenodrog]

I personally think he just listened to the fans too much. Firstly it was almost Shearer, the massive people's choice - thank god we never got him eh. After he turned us down, JW went to the next fans favourite - Ince. He probably saw similarities with Hughes in Ince; incredibly experienced as a player, including international club experience and some time under Fergie, and young, with decent managerial success albeit at a different level. He probably just thought he was worth the risk.

As it turned out it was a bad decision, but it was a difficult one to make. Look at some of the other main candidates and what happened to them:

Shearer - the fans overwhelming choice. Went to Newcastle and got them relegated (I'm not having it that nobody could have kept them up - a decent manager would have been able to)

Michael Laudrup - went to Spartak, did badly and was sacked by them a couple of months ago

Schteve McClaren - rock bottom of fans polls for next manager, went to FC Twente and has actually done really well with them (2nd in the league, lost on penalties in the final of the Dutch cup).

Allerdyce - again not a popular candidate at the time, in fact whatever's said now, Allerdyce probably dropped out of the running when he did in the summer due to fans hostility (which probably saved JW having to turn him down), subsequently came to Rovers and, for me, has done an excellent job.

Henk ten Cate - went to Panathinaikos, he's done OK but nothing amazing overall.

JW probably didn't want to completely fly in the face of fan's opinion when it came to the appointment, but he obviously should have when it seems that those who were least favourite with the fans are the one's who have done alright. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

Let's be honest though, for a club like Blackburn, choosing a manager is going to be difficult, and is always going to include a fair amount of risk. In Ince's case the risk didn't pay off. I can certainly see why he went for him though (even if I didn't agree at the time), and in fairness I don't think anyone realised quite how inept Ince was when he first came.

I bloody well did and so did a few others and all we got was criticism.

1. Shearer

2. Ince

3. Maclaren

I was against that lot from the start and in favour of either HTK or SA. I would also have favoured us moving for Bilic. What I cannot understand are the qualities that JW saw in those 3 that are quite simply and obviously not there. Not one of those three are intelligent enough for starters. None even possess a remnant of personality nor indeed any charisma. Quite simply they do not have the nous and leadership qualities needed. No doubt if they bring in good coaches they might just survive, but JW even let Ince bring in a Dad's Army collection of has beens and never has beens. God only knows the true stories that lie behind the calendar year of 2008.

[jim mk2]

In Ince's case the risk didn't pay off. I can certainly see why he went for him though (even if I didn't agree at the time), and in fairness I don't think anyone realised quite how inept Ince was when he first came.

Anyone who knows their football on here said Ince would be a calamity, and so it proved. So why you "certainly see why he went for him" beggars belief.

Either you're thick or know nothing about football. Probably both.

For the record I was one of the few to pick McClaren. Over-promoted with England but a decent club manager who would have done a good job for Rovers had he taken over last summer.

[thenodrog]

Anyone who knows their football on here said Ince would be a calamity, and so it proved. So why you "certainly see why he went for him" beggars belief.

Either you're thick or know nothing about football. Probably both.

For the record I was one of the few to pick McClaren. Over-promoted with England but a decent club manager who would have done a good job for Rovers had he taken over last summer.

Problem is that we'd all have committed suicide through shame and embarassment. That man should not even have been considered, and to think SA made Facebook and he didn't illustrates the level of intelligence of the people that go on it.

[Kelbo]

Its about time the Andrews witch hunters started getting off his back. He made more contribution to the team last year than all but a handful of players. Crucial goals, never less that 100% commitment, willing to play in any role and more enthusiastic than most, only player still with us able to deliver a 30 yard pass.

For 800k we got a bargain by Premier league standards. Compared to the contributions made by other so called star midfield players at the club (Tugay excluded) he was a stellar player - Grella (1 good game), Dunn (how many appearances?), Villneauva (lightweight and oh so slow), Reid (injured), Emerton (injured), Warnock (excellent at times but ...)

Which other Premier League clubs want him? Well Wigan for one according to press reports

Iliken the comment to those who talk up the Batsman who scores 50 runs and drops three catches giving 200 runs away!!

Keith Andrews ball retention is getting better, but it was the worst I have ever seen from a Premiership midfield player on a consistant basis!!

Note the number of times he gives the ball away, gets caught out of position and is done for pace both in midfield and full back. Yes, the lads tryer and its not his fault, its Inces fault and he should never have been signed to play at this level of football!!

[colin]

Put this on your CV Paul Ince:

4-10 H L 0-2 Manchester United

18-10 A D 0-0 Bolton

25-10 H D 1-1 Middlesbrough

28-10 A L 2-3 Aston Villa

1-11 A D 2-2 West Brom

9-11 H L 0-2 Chelsea

16-11 H L 1-2 Sunderland

23-11 A L 0-1 Tottenham

30-11 A L 2-3 Portsmouth

6-12 H L 1-3 Liverpool

13-12 A L 0-3 Wigan

Sorry, formatting fail.

[BlueMonday]

Keith Andrews ball retention is getting better, but it was the worst I have ever seen from a Premiership midfield player on a consistant basis!!

Note the number of times he gives the ball away, gets caught out of position and is done for pace both in midfield and full back. Yes, the lads a tryer and its not his fault, its Inces fault and he should never have been signed to play at this level of football!!

I dont know. We should keep him and he could become the new SUPER ATKO. And he got a Prem Champions medal

[BlueMonday]

Ince just been on SSN touting for the West Brom job and Mowbrays not officially gone yet!

Of course he thinks WB are a fantastic club with massive potential.......................

He really is having a laugh.

[tcj_jones]

There is NOTHING to Keith Andrews' game. He gets the ball and passes it off to the nearest available player. If nobody is available, he sits on it until tackled or plays a slightly longer pass that is intercepted.

He is clearly in peak physical condition and will run all day long. He will track back for you, but can't tackle, so doesn't really offer much in this respect either.

He isn't a scape goat - there were several in the team who performed worse or equally as bad last season - but they have either proven their talent in the past or have shown glimpses of what they can offer. With Andrews, however, it is clear that he has nothing to offer whatsoever.

[patrickvalery]

Either you're thick or know nothing about football. Probably both.

Someone is getting all big and brave.....in front of their keyboard.

I don't think the man is even worth discussing (Ince not Jim). Whilst he was in charge i was willing to offer my support. But only to a point. He quickly showed he was totally inept. But thankfully he has gone and if he is lucky enough to get another job then i'll be glad he's someone elses problem. And if by some slim chance he does get a job awash with cash we should be extremely happy. Because Paul Ince with money means only one thing. A good profit to made on Mr Andrews.

[Fife Rover]

Anyone fancy Ince for the Newcastle job?

[47er]

Andrews - Did the job he was bought for. Squad player. Criticised with venom but didn't react at all and gave 100% all the time.

Grella - Jury still out. Looked brilliant and terrible in equal amounts.

Robinson - Great business, it seems.

Villanueva - Was worth the risk considering his potential but just not strong enough.

Fowler - Waste of time.

Simpson - Rated highly at United is a worse header of the ball than my gran.

In retrospect, he wasn't actually that terrible in the market. He didn't have the Hughes/Allardyce contacts and hidden gem finding abilities though.

That's just a critque of the players Ince signed. Its not a list of the players we needed. Add to that, only 1 (Robinson) looked Premier League quality (Grella was too injured to count), then you have a ready explanation for all the trouble we were in.

[BRFC1995]

Anyone fancy Ince for the Newcastle job?

he only wants a job where there is money to spend..................i detest his attitude just as much now and will e-mail a link to this thread to any club that is rumoured to be after him, if anyone in charge reads this lot they'll save their fans a lot of sleepless nights by uttering the words NEXT PLEASE. clueless, deranged, arrogant,self important prick of a man.

[47er]

Its about time the Andrews witch hunters started getting off his back. He made more contribution to the team last year than all but a handful of players. Crucial goals, never less that 100% commitment, willing to play in any role and more enthusiastic than most, only player still with us able to deliver a 30 yard pass.

For 800k we got a bargain by Premier league standards. Compared to the contributions made by other so called star midfield players at the club (Tugay excluded) he was a stellar player - Grella (1 good game), Dunn (how many appearances?), Villneauva (lightweight and oh so slow), Reid (injured), Emerton (injured), Warnock (excellent at times but ...)

Which other Premier League clubs want him? Well Wigan for one according to press reports

What's a bargain in this context? A bargain is only a bargain if its of use. We could buy loads of bargain players from lower leagues and some might turn out to be worth more than we paid. But if we were relegated(or should I say when) what is the true value?

It doesnt matter what we paid-----he isn't good enough to play in the Premiership. Let Wigan have him.

[thecomebackid]

for once I am speechless

The Ince quotes seem to have come from an interview he did on Five Live's Sportsweek.

Ince bleated in his usual plaintiff manner about how he didn't have an opportunity to build/spend at 'Blackburn'. No doubt encouraged by 'The Mirror's' Darren Lewis and failed ex-footballer Tony Adams, who were both faithfully sitting alongside an indulgent David Davies in the studio, the interview strayed on to the thorny issue of the difficulties facing English managers trying to break in to the Premier League. The fact that both Ince and Adams were replaced by fellow English men was conveniently overlooked for the purposes of a good old self-pity fest.

The parts that almost caused me to spit my brew out over the laptop was when Ince, without a hint of irony, referred to the 'petulance' of Ronaldo before breezily declaring that he was off on holiday at the end of the week, so he can come back 'refreshed' before his next big challenge. The interviewer obviously missed a trick by declining to put it to him why he wasn't already 'refreshed' enough after his six months down at Brockhall and just what it was since then that had proved so strenuous for him since he was sacked?

I doubt Ince's vocabulary is that extensive in any case, but I'm pretty sure the word 'humility' has never formed part of it.

Not for the faint hearted: http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/programmes/sportsweek.shtml

[LeChuck]

Ince just been on SSN touting for the West Brom job and Mowbrays not officially gone yet!

I quite like West Brom fans so I hope that's not true, it would be a kick in the teeth to go from someone intelligent, dignified and generally likeable to the complete polar opposite in Ince. I think they're well run enough to learn from the mistake we made and stay well clear.

I wonder how many jobs Ince will have to tout himself for before he realises no-one wants to employ him at a decent level and drops back into League One/Two? With his ego it could take a while to sink in. I reckon he'll end up at somewhere like Southampton or Charlton before the end of the season is through.

[Napoleon]

I cannot believe what I'm seeing about Andrews, still. For 800k he was a solid first team regular and kept working hard when all the idiots were booing and grumbling. No-one is saying that he's a world beater but he's good enough for the Premiership and improved throughout the season. Look, Ince has gone now, you can forget about this vendetta towards his pally signing of Andrews. Meanwhile Dunny who plays 5 games this season for much higher wages is rarely criticised because he's a local lad and used to be able to beat his man 5 years ago.

I'm sorry but I've going to have to trust Allardyce and Trappatoni over some of you, who despite watching football for many years, clearly have some very strange ideas about the game.

[LeChuck]

I'm sorry but I've going to have to trust Allardyce and Trappatoni over some of you, who despite watching football for many years, clearly have some very strange ideas about the game.

Hang on...as soon as we had enough central players fit and available Allardyce didn't play Andrews in midfield at all. I bet he's nowhere near starting for us next year, I'm pretty sure Sam knows he isn't good enough but was required to do a job last season with so many players out.

Trappatoni picking him for Ireland doesn't mean he's good enough for us either, his partner in a few of those games was Glenn Whelan and he struggles to get a game for Stoke. Liam Miller was even called up to the last squad!

Andrews did as well as anyone could have expected him to, but none of this means he's good enough for us. The reason we were in a relegation scrap last year is because we had poor players like Andrews playing 30+ games. Not being injured often and trying hard isn't enough to be a Premier League footballer. I admit the resentment for him is out of order, it's not his fault he's not good enough and he tried hard which is more than can be said for some.

[OJRovers]

The whole Andrews debate will never end.

I like the guy for his commitment, work rate, fitness and attitude.

BUT he's not good enough to be a Premiership regular.

When Emerton is back next year he will come in and play instead of Andrews at Rb/CM which will be a big improvement in quality.

We'll probably have KA as back-up for any injuries - not ideal, but who of better quality is going to want to play as our injury cover?

Although if we can make a million profit by selling him then take it, i'd like to see Judge get a proper chance next season in midfield anyway.

Back to Ince, he is not on this planet. West Brom will just look at his first signing for Rovers (Fowler) and laugh.

[Jonnolad]

Anyone who knows their football on here said Ince would be a calamity, and so it proved. So why you "certainly see why he went for him" beggars belief.

Either you're thick or know nothing about football. Probably both.

First off, it's definitely poor when you have to just dive in with personal insults, very poor. I'm pretty certain that wouldn't be something you would you would be doing if we were talking face to face, so why resort to something like that on the internet?

Now, you claim that "Anyone who knows their football on here said Ince would be a calamity" - who are these people on here then who said he would be a calamity? Notice I've highlighted the word calamity, I'm not interested in those who said he wasn't the best appointment, or those that had their reservations / concerns, or that he wasn't their first choice - I'm interested in those people who said he would be a calamity (or strong words to that effect). From a personal perspective I was definitely in the concerned camp - I personally thought we had a chance of making a decent appointment after the great shape Hughes had left us in, and I didn't think Ince was that appointment, but I certainly didn't jump straight in and say it was a calamity at the time.

You are claiming that "Anyone who knows their football on here said Ince would be a calamity" though, so I've had a look through the original Paul Ince appointment thread to see if that actually was the case or not (only got to about page 10 mind - I may be bored at work, but not that bored). Now all these people seemed to vary from being chuffed to having reservations with the appointment - certainly none of these people said that Ince would be a calamity:

ROVERS, Hughsey, Mr. E, Paul Mellelieu, Exiled in Toronto, SIMON GARNERS 194, John, bob fleming, 1864roverite, modes98, USABlue, Tango, Shevchenko, rover6, Philly Rover, Cheeky Sidders, BuckyRover, bacup blue, grizfoot, speeeeeeedie, Majiball, alexanders, Hasta, Billy Castell, AndyC, Kamy100, JAL, b12_simon, Bryan, CAPT KAYOS, gumboots, waggy, neekoy. The list goes on and on to be honest (there were loads more as well who all varied from being chuffed to having reservations with the appointment, but I've only included those with a high post count).

Some other members definitely expressed stronger concerns, but none of them said he would be a "calamity" (or "disaster" or whatever) - these were:

FourLaneBlue, philipl, Jan, ABBEY, RibbleValleyRover, Cocker, Dunnfc

Even den didn't seem to think he would be a calamity.

So, the big question - do all these members above not know their football then? Should we ignore anything they have to say football related? Hughsey? SIMON GARNERS 194? bob fleming? speeeeeeedie? 1864roverite? Billy Castell? waggy? As I've said before the list goes on and on.

The only people who actually came out and said he would be a calamity in fact (certainly on the first 10 pages) were thenodrog and ROVER. Hats off to thenodrog's clairvoyance skills because he was dead set against the appointment from the off but he was in a definite minority. Is thenodrog the only member on here who knows his football then though? Get real.

The fact is not many people at all said he would be a calamity, and you'd assume that most people could therefore see why JW made the appointment. They may or may not agree with the appointment, but they can see how JW came to the decision. I didn't agree with the appointment but like I said I can certainly see why he went for him, with the reasons that I gave - I may not have agreed with the appoinment, but I can see why he made it.

Incidentally, the word to describe this ability to understand other people's thinking is called empathy; as it seems to be a word (and an experience) you haven't come across before!

[Napoleon]

Anyone who knows their football on here said Ince would be a calamity, and so it proved.

Anyone who knows their football should no that nothing is as predictable as you make out. In many ways Ince was less of a risk than Hughes as he had at least managed a club before, and rather well as it happens whereas Hughes' Wales side had not won for more than a year. Some risks pay off, and some do not.

I can't believe Ince isn't doing those badges though. At least we know he has the arrogance to be a top manager if not the coaching ability.

[den]

What's all this "calamity" thing Jonno?

Lot's didn't think he would make the grade and repeatedly said so - and were proven right. You're just playing with words there.

[jim mk2]

Anyone who knows their football should no that nothing is as predictable as you make out. In many ways Ince was less of a risk than Hughes as he had at least managed a club before, and rather well as it happens whereas Hughes' Wales side had not won for more than a year. Some risks pay off, and some do not.

Disagree. Hughes was well known to Rovers from his time as a player. The club's management knew his strength of character and had obviously earmarked his as a possible future manager. On that basis Hughes was much less of a risk than Ince.

Because of his lack of intelligence, and character and personality defects, the likelihood of Ince failing was always strong. He was the wrong man for Rovers, the appointment just did not feel right and those of us of *ahem* a certain age could see it from the start.

A predictable calamity ? I certainly think so.

[tcj_jones]

Meanwhile Dunny who plays 5 games this season for much higher wages is rarely criticised because he's a local lad and used to be able to beat his man 5 years ago.

The difference is that Dunn has proven over the course of his career that he easily has the ability to play in the Premier League. Unfortunately, he is always injured. Don't get me wrong, his fitness is a huge concern, but I like him more than Andrews for the fact that he is a good, creative central midfielder, which is something that we've lacked a few seasons now.

Hang on...as soon as we had enough central players fit and available Allardyce didn't play Andrews in midfield at all. I bet he's nowhere near starting for us next year, I'm pretty sure Sam knows he isn't good enough but was required to do a job last season with so many players out.

Trappatoni picking him for Ireland doesn't mean he's good enough for us either, his partner in a few of those games was Glenn Whelan and he struggles to get a game for Stoke. Liam Miller was even called up to the last squad!

Andrews did as well as anyone could have expected him to, but none of this means he's good enough for us. The reason we were in a relegation scrap last year is because we had poor players like Andrews playing 30+ games. Not being injured often and trying hard isn't enough to be a Premier League footballer.

I agree fully with this.

I admit the resentment for him is out of order, it's not his fault he's not good enough and he tried hard which is more than can be said for some.

For the record, I hold absolutely no resentment towards Andrews whatsoever, how could I? The guy came in and was given the opportunity of a life time. He performed to the best of his ability and clearly gave his absolute all. It's just a shame that he isn't good enough for the league. If he ever returns to Ewood (presuming of course that he is sold) I will cheer him, because he deserves it.

[The Prof.]

for once I am speechless

Ha Hahahahah ohhh hahahahaha - needs matching up with Newcastle. Hhhaa hahahaha

Waiting for a big club with finances - haha - yes - I'm waiting for the United job too Paul - only my record is miles better than yours. P0W0L0D0 see, now weres that phone!