[Archived] Paul Ince Gone

[Jonnolad]

If it helped get him sacked, yes.

Let's just hope KA isn't a starter next season, eh Jonno - don't you think?

I agree. But I also hope that Grella, MGP, Dunn, Reid, Judge or Treacy aren't starters either. And those players don't seem as versatile as Andrews either, so for that reason (among others) he deserves his place in the squad at the very least.

[JAL]

Meanwhile Dunny who plays 5 games this season for much higher wages is rarely criticised because he's a local lad and used to be able to beat his man 5 years ago.

I've tried Napolean, even after Dunny's last goal at Everton.

[Jonnolad]

Hang on...as soon as we had enough central players fit and available Allardyce didn't play Andrews in midfield at all. I bet he's nowhere near starting for us next year, I'm pretty sure Sam knows he isn't good enough but was required to do a job last season with so many players out.

Which of our players were played seriously out of position last season? Samba, Warnock and Andrews are certainly 3 that stand out for me. Would you say a manager rates a player if he is willing to play him completely out of his normal position? Or do you think a manager doesn't rate a player if he does that? I'd personally say that a manager has decent faith in a player if he is prepared to play him well out of position wouldn't you? If a manager had little faith in a player in his normal position, then surely he'd be insane to then play him out of position. The fact of the matter is Allardyce placed a big faith in Andrews playing him consistency out of position at the end of the season (especially when we had players in the squad who were far more experienced at that position).

For me it would certainly point to some vindictiveness against the player therefore (conscious or unconscious) if, when a player is played out of position, you take a viewpoint that the manager is doing it because he's has no faith in him in usual position rather than an extended faith in him to place him somewhere else. What is your position on Samba being played out of position for instance? Was it because other players were better at centre back than him or was it because he was considered better than the other forward options we had? I’d bet money Allardyce thought the latter in both cases.

Trappatoni picking him for Ireland doesn't mean he's good enough for us either, his partner in a few of those games was Glenn Whelan and he struggles to get a game for Stoke. Liam Miller was even called up to the last squad!

As far as the ROI goes, the fact remains that he has looked good for them, regardless of who was with him - if I was asked to make a decision on whether he was better than most of our existing midfield based on his ROI performances I'd say he was (he's better than most of our midfield on Rovers performances though too). It's also worth noting though that Andrews was directly keeping Sunderland's Andy Reid and Man Utd's Darron Gibson from starting in the same position - would you be happy with either of those for £800k? I don't think we'll be seeing either of them go for that any time soon certainly - Reid cost Sunderland £4m for starters!

Andrews did as well as anyone could have expected him to, but none of this means he's good enough for us. The reason we were in a relegation scrap last year is because we had poor players like Andrews playing 30+ games. Not being injured often and trying hard isn't enough to be a Premier League footballer. I admit the resentment for him is out of order, it's not his fault he's not good enough and he tried hard which is more than can be said for some.

That just isn't true though is it. The main reason we were in a relegation scrap last season was because of our results under Ince - most notably our defence, which was the worst in the league bar West Brom at Christmas. Importantly Andrews wasn't as regular a starter under Ince as he was with Big Sam. The players obviously played their part in our league position, but certainly under Ince, Andrews wasn't one of those players who I'd single out.

[alexanders]

He is clearly in peak physical condition and will run all day long. He will track back for you, but can't tackle, so doesn't really offer much in this respect either.

I just had to:

Tackles won:

Pos Player name Total

1 Keith Andrews 69

2 Stephen Warnock 68

3 Christopher Samba 56

4 Andre Ooijer 56

5 Ryan Nelsen 53

6 Morten Gamst Pedersen 47

7 Kerimoglou Tugay 39

8 Vincenzo Grella 32

9 El Hadji Diouf 26

10 David Dunn 22

[den]

I agree. But I also hope that Grella, MGP, Dunn, Reid, Judge or Treacy aren't starters either. And those players don't seem as versatile as Andrews either, so for that reason (among others) he deserves his place in the squad at the very least.

You agree that you don't want him starting next season, but you keep telling us what a good player he is?

Strange position to hold Jonnolad. You know, some say he's good enough for the prem, some say he's not. You seem to say he's good enough but don't want him in the team.

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

You agree that you don't want him starting next season, but you keep telling us what a good player he is?

Strange position to hold Jonnolad. You know, some say he's good enough for the prem, some say he's not. You seem to say he's good enough but don't want him in the team.

There is a difference between being good enough to start and being good enough to be in the squad.

[Jonnolad]

You agree that you don't want him starting next season, but you keep telling us what a good player he is?

Strange position to hold Jonnolad. You know, some say he's good enough for the prem, some say he's not. You seem to say he's good enough but don't want him in the team.

He's definitely good enough for the Prem, but if we are to scale the same heights as Hughes took us to (in arguably the strongest league in the world), then he probably isn't good enough to start for us. A premier league team doesn't just consist of 11 starters though, surely you must realise that? All premier league teams have squads and he's decent enough to be in our squad, I've always said that, in fact he's an excellent squad player with his versatility. Next season I'd like to see Emerton starting in the middle with hopefully someone new though. Grella is absolutely just not good enough and Dunn and Reid are massive question marks - the rest are definitely non-starters in the middle.

I think you probably knew that already (or you would if you'd have read my posts) so it's a bit bizarre you're asking to be honest.

The problem we have is we are never going to get back anywhere near the money we paid for Grella, and we just don't know what Reid or Dunn are going to come back like. Hence we'd be nuts to get rid of Andrews as he is good cover, and it would be near impossible to get someone of his calibre for the same money. Big Sam probably already knows that - if he was to get a decent price for him though I'm guessing that would change things (presumably Sam isn't daft when it comes to many fans opinion of him, no matter how unfounded).

[jim mk2]

He's definitely good enough for the Prem,

And with one sentence all credibility goes flying out of the window and off to la-la land.....

Hands up all those who think Keith Andrews is "good enough for the Prem" ??

[Billy Castell]

Andrews is a reasonable player to have in the squad as back up. Our version of Park Ji-Sung or Darren Fletcher if you will. He is not worthy of a regular place if we bring in a better midfielder or two, but he tries hard, as doesn't seem to get injured often unlike Pie Boy.

Now can we stop slagging off Keith and get back to the task in hand-laughing at Paul Ince.

[G Somerset Rover]

Now can we stop slagging off Keith and get back to the task in hand-laughing at Paul Ince.

Cracking idea

I'll start with the many positives that he brought to Rovers in his short tenure:

* Paul Robinson

* Ummm...errrrrr...

I really do feel sorry for the next set of fans that get mugged off by this joker.

[Jonnolad]

And with one sentence all credibility goes flying out of the window and off to la-la land.....

Hands up all those who think Keith Andrews is "good enough for the Prem" ??

You do know that just repeating the same old sh1te doesn't make it true though.

The same people who think he isn't good enough for the Prem will also be the same people who believe the opta stats are lies - they have to since the stats back up the fact that Andrews is premier league standard. Are the opta stats lies? Is there a big conspiracy somewhere that is deliberately changing the opta stats just to make Keith look good? Of course there isn't.

One big stat that stands out for him is 4 goals from 27 starts as well, which is a respectable return for pretty much most premier league midfielders. Factor in his versatility, then you are definitely edging toward plain denial in saying he isn't good enough for the Prem (let alone looking at the other stats).

Plus, if he isn't good enough for the Prem how the hell is he keeping Andy Reid and Darron Gibson out of the ROI squad? Is Trappatoni mad? Is Keith giving him a reach round in the bath after the match? What is it?

[Hughesy]

Funny how Ince has started appearing everywhere in the media again...

Must be desperate for a return - hopefully he gets it, in the lower leagues!!

[Amo]

Funny how Ince has started appearing everywhere in the media again...

Must be desperate for a return - hopefully he gets it, in the lower leagues!!

Wouldn't you prefer him in the Premiership? Guarantees us at least 6pts next season (provided he isn't sacked half-way).

[Jonnolad]

Andrews is a reasonable player to have in the squad as back up. Our version of Park Ji-Sung or Darren Fletcher if you will. He is not worthy of a regular place if we bring in a better midfielder or two, but he tries hard, as doesn't seem to get injured often unlike Pie Boy.

Now can we stop slagging off Keith and get back to the task in hand-laughing at Paul Ince.

Here, here. That link is just amazing - Ince is categorically not with the program. Lack of funds was the problem? It just sounds like the same kind of frankly unbelievable excuses he came out with when he was reaching the end of his tenure with us.

He took us from one of the best defences outside the top 4 (only Everton and Portsmouth were better) into the worst - that is some doing. And what about signing Robbie Fowler? He played him for pretty much the entire Bolton game as well - that was just painful to watch.

Who would possibly want to take him on as a manager - especially someone with money to spend?

The bloke was so inept I'm surprised he hasn't gone into politics!

[Guest benmaxwell]

Cracking idea

I'll start with the many positives that he brought to Rovers in his short tenure:

* Paul Robinson

* Ummm...errrrrr...

I really do feel sorry for the next set of fans that get mugged off by this joker.

Another positive of Ince's tenure.

Everyone (fans and club wise) were reminded that it doesn't always pay off to hire a new young up and coming manager, and that when a important decision needs to be made, it's better to act sooner rather then later.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Given that Ince has in fact gone - some months ago I believe - this thread will eventually sink into a well-deserved oblivion.

But the real questions will remain:

- Why did Williams, having had the benefit of an in-depth interview and the opportunity to take soundings within the game, appoint him and then fail to sack him at the right time?

- Will Allardyce, who so far has been judged by his superiority to Ince, measure up to the yardstick of being as good for us as Hughes and Souness, both of whom won dire relegation battles and then quickly built real success?

- Will there still be some attention-deficient posters seeking to prove to a bunch of complete strangers that they posses some stratospheric knowledge of football, far superior to that of Allardyce and Trapattoni, which mysteriously did not manifest itself in them earning a living in the game?

Sorry - only two questions remain!

[T4E]

- Will Allardyce, who so far has been judged by his superiority to Ince, measure up to the yardstick of being as good for us as Hughes and Souness, both of whom won dire relegation battles and then quickly built real success?

Interesting parallel, hadn't really thought of that. Good omen I'd say.

[LeChuck]

- Will there still be some attention-deficient posters seeking to prove to a bunch of complete strangers that they posses some stratospheric knowledge of football, far superior to that of Allardyce and Trapattoni, which mysteriously did not manifest itself in them earning a living in the game?

What a pointlessly antagonising thing to say.

If I were Trapattoni I'd probably start with Andrews too if the best alternative is Liam Miller (this is going off the last Ireland team that played Bulgaria). Doesn't mean he's good enough for Rovers though. Glenn Whelan is also starting in central midfield and he's not good enough either.

Let's see whether Allardyce uses Andrews much next season before coming to the conclusion that he rates him as a Premier League midfielder shall we? Circumstances were such that Allardyce was forced into playing Andrews.

[1864roverite]

Can someone please remind me. WHO IS PAUL INCE ?

The outspoken and controversial begging for another chance, I am not scared, bladdy blah bladdy blah, is a complete and utter moron if he thinks he will get a chance to manage a half decent club whilst still sitting on his ar$e playing golf instead of qualifying for his badges.

Despite the jobs on offer, I dont think he would make anyone's shortlist.

[den]

What a pointlessly antagonising thing to say.

Yep.

Makes you wonder why all ex players don't make good managers doesn't it. After all, Paul Ince did everything in the game didn't he? Doesn't have a clue as to what makes a good prem side though.

[jim mk2]

- Will there still be some attention-deficient posters seeking to prove to a bunch of complete strangers that they posses some stratospheric knowledge of football, far superior to that of Allardyce and Trapattoni, which mysteriously did not manifest itself in them earning a living in the game?

So fans aren't allowed to have opinions ? Might as well close the messageboard in that case.

[jim mk2]

The same people who think he isn't good enough for the Prem will also be the same people who believe the opta stats are lies - they have to since the stats back up the fact that Andrews is premier league standard. Are the opta stats lies? Is there a big conspiracy somewhere that is deliberately changing the opta stats just to make Keith look good? Of course there isn't.

One big stat that stands out for him is 4 goals from 27 starts as well, which is a respectable return for pretty much most premier league midfielders. Factor in his versatility, then you are definitely edging toward plain denial in saying he isn't good enough for the Prem (let alone looking at the other stats).

Plus, if he isn't good enough for the Prem how the hell is he keeping Andy Reid and Darron Gibson out of the ROI squad? Is Trappatoni mad? Is Keith giving him a reach round in the bath after the match? What is it?

Opta stats ...... is that the best you can do ? The stats that allegedly tell you how many times some player's kicked someone else's arse while lacing up his boots on the first Tuesday of every leap year but only if there's an x in the month ?

Any idiot can twist statistics to suit their own argument. Opta stats show that John O'Shea has a 100% goal to shots record (whatever that means) for ManU but does that mean they'll play him up front instead of Rooney ? I don't think so.

And so what if Andrews is keeping fat and useless Andy Reid and Darron Who out of the Ireland squad. Are you serious ? Trappatoni has to pick Andrews because the Irish have no one else. If you're in any doubt check your beloved Opta stats.

Most sensible Rovers fans see Andrews as a poor to average player who is at best a squad member who can fill a shirt when required, and they're not wrong.

[American]

Hands up all those who think Keith Andrews is "good enough for the Prem" ??

I see Sam raising his hand....

[philipl]

Every time I see this thread resurrected, my immediate reaction is "NOOOO, don't tell me he has come back"

Then I come out from behind the settee and Ince is still sacked.

Incidentally, about 50% of the back votes in the poll were cast AFTER he was sacked- Sam, Ranulf, Longsider, Yorkyclaret...

[SouthAussieRover]

Can someone please remind me. WHO IS PAUL INCE ?

Can Admin do a little trick, a bit like Lancashire U.n.i.ted, where the word Ince becomes something else?