[Archived] Big Fat Sam's Shopping List

[T4E]

Agree 100% with everything apart from this bit. Isn't it because finances are tight that we are looking at someone like Barton on a free? If we had money to spend we could be more picky about who we attempt to sign.

That was my main point too. You dont often get quality for free, headcase or not.

Signing players on free/cheap is the way to go - signing players who aren't likely to play a full season is not. Barton is too often injured and suspended to be taking up space on our wage bill. We need to become one of the fittest teams with the least amount of injuries/suspensions in the league if we are going to compete. Joey Barton will never fit in to either category.

Since we all know we need a striker what about Boyd at Rangers?????

Clinical indeed and a very impressive scoring record, plus rangers where willing to let him go to Brum for 3M in Jan. I'd also be looking at Fletcher at Hib's and McCarthy.

Boyd would be a nightmare when we try to play 1 up front. Not a Sam type player at all.

[gumboots]

Signing players on free/cheap is the way to go - signing players who aren't likely to play a full season is not. Barton is too often injured and suspended to be taking up space on our wage bill. We need to become one of the fittest teams with the least amount of injuries/suspensions in the league if we are going to compete. Joey Barton will never fit in to either category.

I think this is probably my main objection to Barton. He is probably a couple of years past his best because injuries and suspensions take their toll too. We simply cannot afford to take the kind of risk he represents. There are risks you have to take and those a wise person would avoid because there is little chance of their coming off. Allardyce likes his percentages. I think they are against Barton.

[gillibrand]

It depends on what safeguards would be included in his contract.

[Fife Rover]

I was just reflecting that Sam's last venture in the transfer market resulted in some seriously poor players arriving at NUFC for some seriously large transfer fees plus the Joey Barton misjudement.

Hope Sam can rewind the clock on his skills at least three years or this could be an awful summer.

That's my worry also Philipl. I am not knocking what Sam has had to do so far since arriving to pick up the wreckage of the Ince disaster, but I am hoping without much conviction that he will set us up with his own selection of decent players that are capable of at least a mid-table finish for next season. I have to say I am not confident of it happening.

[leftfooter]

It depends on what safeguards would be included in his contract.

Newcastle were well within their rights to terminate Barton's contract after his conviction and subsequent imprisonment.

They chose not to.

[LeChuck]

Newcastle were well within their rights to terminate Barton's contract after his conviction and subsequent imprisonment.

They chose not to.

Not sure what point you're making there.

If Barton was on a free, had a suitable contract (i.e. protection against his behaviour) and passed a strict medical then I think I'd be happy for him to sign given our desperate need for midfielders. I could be wrong but isn't this the first season he's had injury problems? I expect this season is a one-off in that respect.

[Billy Castell]

What use would Joey Barton be when he is inevitabley injured/suspended/in prison? People slate Grella for all the injury problems this season, and yet Barton is almost as bad as Vince, but has the added drama of constant suspensions and the risk he'll be in prison sometime during his contract. He is quite a good player but with our budget we can't waste wages on his sort.

Maniche would be worth a punt if the wages are not too massive.

[T4E]

Not sure what point you're making there.

If Barton was on a free, had a suitable contract (i.e. protection against his behaviour) and passed a strict medical then I think I'd be happy for him to sign given our desperate need for midfielders. I could be wrong but isn't this the first season he's had injury problems? I expect this season is a one-off in that respect.

I find your stance on this extremely surprising.

EDIT: By the way, according to Soccerbase, Barton's appearance record -

2008/09 - 9

2007/08 - 23

2006/07 - 39

2005/06 - 36

So it would appear you're right on that score, however its worth noting that in this time he's had 27 yellow cards and 3 reds.

[gumboots]

I find your stance on this extremely surprising.

I find the stance of many who support his signing surprising which is why I tried to set out other objections to him, rather than simply a feeling that this is a guy we shouldn't even be considering. I just feel that there has to come a point where the football community as a whole says "enough is enough". sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind. Away from the pressures of football he may have a chance of managing his anger and getting his life on a more even keel than it appears it's on at the moment. There are just some however, who, however many chances they are given, are not winnable.

[Iceman]

As talented as Barton is, i cant see myself accepting him at Rovers. There is still some good in Diouf, but Barton is liar, a thug and has no respect for anybody. This is a family club, lets not promote rubbish like this. Some are trying so hard to see pass this guys thuggery, just so that we can satisfy our hunger for that midfielder we craving for. Football is a means of bringing people together, its not a place for people like Barton who it seems causes divisions between people. That alone should make us steer well clear of him. The guy has made no effort to sort himself out, and shouldnt be taken seriously or allowed near this club.

[Hughesy]

So it would appear you're right on that score, however its worth noting that in this time he's had 27 yellow cards and 3 reds.

Compare that with the same period (05-09) for the following:

Kevin Davies - 39 yellow, 1 red

Lucas Neill - 37 yellow, 2 red

Savage - 34 n 1 red

[gumboots]

Compare that with the same period (05-09) for the following:

Kevin Davies - 39 yellow, 1 red

Lucas Neill - 37 yellow, 2 red

Savage - 34 n 1 red

Same number of appearances? also it's the red card count that's worrying as they carry a 1 or 3 match ban.

[T4E]

Compare that with the same period (05-09) for the following:

Kevin Davies - 39 yellow, 1 red

Lucas Neill - 37 yellow, 2 red

Savage - 34 n 1 red

How many games played?

[Guest Vinjay606]

As talented as Barton is, i cant see myself accepting him at Rovers. There is still some good in Diouf, but Barton is liar, a thug and has no respect for anybody. This is a family club, lets not promote rubbish like this.

What is this family club stuff supposed to mean? I don't usually attend matches with my family so it means nothing to me. All clubs could be considered family clubs these days with family enclosures and good facilities.

There was a takeover related story in the LET last year some nonsense about protecting family traditions. I don't really see what that has to do with a football club.

[Iceman]

What is this family club stuff supposed to mean? I don't usually attend matches with my family so it means nothing to me. All clubs could be considered family clubs these days with family enclosures and good facilities.

There was a takeover related story in the LET last year some nonsense about protecting family traditions. I don't really see what that has to do with a football club.

You should really change your name to Winjay. Jeez get a grip dude.

[Hughesy]

How many games played?

Not sure and I cant be arsed going through all that but in that time Sav had a broken leg, and missed alot of this season under Jewell too. So im sure his appearances must be similar/ if not less.

Yes red's are worse, but you can count 1 of them (the one on sunday) as wrong. So thats 27 yellows & 2 reds.

How about how many penalties given away?? I would love to compare that one for Barton & Neill.

Or lets add Richard Dunne into this equation.

05/06 - 11 yellow

06/07 - 7 yellow, 1 red

07/08 - 4 yellow, 2 red

08/09 - 5 yellow, 3 red and also numureous penalties & own goals given away.

Total - 27 yellow, 6 red

[DE.]

Not sure and I cant be arsed going through all that but in that time Sav had a broken leg, and missed alot of this season under Jewell too. So im sure his appearances must be similar/ if not less.

Yes red's are worse, but you can count 1 of them (the one on sunday) as wrong. So thats 27 yellows & 2 reds.

How about how many penalties given away?? I would love to compare that one for Barton & Neill.

Or lets add Richard Dunne into this equation.

05/06 - 11 yellow

06/07 - 7 yellow, 1 red

07/08 - 4 yellow, 2 red

08/09 - 5 yellow, 3 red and also numureous penalties & own goals given away.

Total - 27 yellow, 6 red

You can't just take away a red card because in your opinion it was the wrong decision. If you start doing that you're going to have go go through all of the red cards of your previous players and decide whether they should have been given.

[Pinch]

If he signs, I'm sure we'll all get behind him (as we did with Diouf) and hope he can stay between the lines, but Barton has as many assault charges as he does red cards! I'd be more worried about his antics off of the pitch bringing disrepute to the club. Sticking a lit cigar into a young teammates eye...that is gangster. Beating Dabo's face to a pulp whilst he's unconcious... I won't go on.

[Commondore]

Anyone know anything about this guy?

Jonas Olsson

Swedish hard as nails central defender, was considered a good but almost brutal defender when playing in Sweden and people were even surprised to see him move to the Dutch league (NEC Nijmegen). He obviously impressed enough there to make west Brom buy him, and he has had something of a love affair with Tony Mowbray this season with Mowbray praising him for hardness and skills on the ball (picked up in the Netherlands?) and claiming that he would start every game he was fit for despite making some unpolished challenges and mistakes during the season.

[47er]

I've seen a few stories linking us with Alex Bruce in the summer. Since we had him as a youth and let him go, what's that about?

[neekoy]

Not sure and I cant be arsed going through all that but in that time Sav had a broken leg, and missed alot of this season under Jewell too. So im sure his appearances must be similar/ if not less.

Yes red's are worse, but you can count 1 of them (the one on sunday) as wrong. So thats 27 yellows & 2 reds.

How about how many penalties given away?? I would love to compare that one for Barton & Neill.

Or lets add Richard Dunne into this equation.

05/06 - 11 yellow

06/07 - 7 yellow, 1 red

07/08 - 4 yellow, 2 red

08/09 - 5 yellow, 3 red and also numureous penalties & own goals given away.

Total - 27 yellow, 6 red

Whilst I agree with your summation of card counts, if we actually look at what he got cards for though it would paint a much different story. Can't remember Richard Dunne ever flying fifty feet to elbow and opponent in the jaw. You are also trying compare a midfielder to defenders who generally will pick up more cards.

[Fylde Coast Fan]

I got behind Diouf but I just couldn't support the signing of Barton. How many chances is he going to get? The Daily Mail mentioned the old "opposition at boardroom level" to his signing - hopefully enough opposition to block him.

Don't forget that Joey is currently on £65k a week at Newcastle, and while he won't get close to that with us, he's not exactly going to sign for Mokoena money either.

[jodrell]

I've seen a few stories linking us with Alex Bruce in the summer. Since we had him as a youth and let him go, what's that about?

I think it was just after Savage came to us from Brum and Bruce took his son there. I assume it was in retaliation

[CrazyIvan]

Whilst I agree with your summation of card counts, if we actually look at what he got cards for though it would paint a much different story. Can't remember Richard Dunne ever flying fifty feet to elbow and opponent in the jaw. You are also trying compare a midfielder to defenders who generally will pick up more cards.

Wasn't that Ben Thatcher?

[Hughesy]

Don't forget that Joey is currently on £65k a week at Newcastle, and while he won't get close to that with us, he's not exactly going to sign for Mokoena money either.

I doubt very much that Joey could ask for anywhere near that amount if sacked by newcastle. £30k a week is much more realistic after all his Mr Meaners. £30k a week (straight replacement for ooijers wage) with no transfer fee, with lots of clauses attached to his contracts around his behaviour. Its a pretty safe risk then.

And CrzayIvan - I think you are right