[Archived] Newcastle United Preview

[thenodrog]

Incidentally I find it extremely unfair to Savage that he is compared to the likes of Diouf, Bellamy and Barton. I mean the guy was a bit of a wind up merchant but largely was very fair on the field of play and a decent man outside of football. He shouldn't get the stick he does.

Sav? Not the best footballer in the world but I'd always stand him a pint for his work ethic alone. Wish they all had it.

[1864roverite]

What I meant guys and maybe should have explained a little better is the "hate" scenario whilst at other grounds.

Savage and Keane were always berated by opposition fans just like Shearer was. Barton will always be in that bracket.

I am certainly in agreement that his off field actions are despicable beyond reason.

My view is for total footballing reasons and for me it is THAT type of central midfielder that Rovers need.

A midfield consisting of Dunn, Grella, Barton and MGP is a solid midfield.

Dunn, MGP and Barton to provide support and creativity up front, Grella the holding slot whilst for the defence, in both Barton and Grella it provides an umbrella for the back four with solid protection.

Thats the point I was making or trying to make.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

What I meant guys and maybe should have explained a little better is the "hate" scenario whilst at other grounds.

Savage and Keane were always berated by opposition fans just like Shearer was. Barton will always be in that bracket.

I am certainly in agreement that his off field actions are despicable beyond reason.

My view is for total footballing reasons and for me it is THAT type of central midfielder that Rovers need.

A midfield consisting of Dunn, Grella, Barton and MGP is a solid midfield.

Dunn, MGP and Barton to provide support and creativity up front, Grella the holding slot whilst for the defence, in both Barton and Grella it provides an umbrella for the back four with solid protection.

Thats the point I was making or trying to make.

I agree matey . I remember seeing him play for City against Wigan a while back. He played Wigan on his own that day, it's a long time since I've seen one player do so much in a game. I'd have him here like a shot.

[Jan]

I can't believe anyone on here is actually defending the crimial that is Joey Barton. I don't care how well or not he plays football, yesterday just showed that he cannot control himself- no matter that he's "now a reformed character". Once a racist, attempted-murdering Scouse thug, always a racist attempted-murdering Scouse thug. If football had any decency he would not be playing, and would by now be permanently in prison where the likes of him belong.

[thenodrog]

I can't believe anyone on here is actually defending the crimial that is Joey Barton. I don't care how well or not he plays football, yesterday just showed that he cannot control himself- no matter that he's "now a reformed character". Once a racist, attempted-murdering Scouse thug, always a racist attempted-murdering Scouse thug. If football had any decency he would not be playing, and would by now be permanently in prison where the likes of him belong.

He could be a good player for us and just what we need if he could allow himself to be ......... BUT after seeing interviews with him I'm sure that he is unbalanced mentally and could easily be a liability. Like a lot of mickey mousers he seems to have cultivated a deep persecution complex.

If we could get him on a free though......

[Amo]

What Jan said - The guy's a thug and liability who has been given one too many chances already. A family club like ours shouldn't associate ourselves with the likes of Joey Barton.

[braddock]

barton is pretty bad, almost as bad as stevie g

but a great player

i'd have him

[Amo]

barton is pretty bad, almost as bad as stevie g

but a great player

i'd have him

lolwhut?

[shadsworth cloud]

considering joey barton had been on the pitch all of 5 minutes, he wasn't exactly busting a gut to move around.

the way he performed yesterday was indicative of newcastles lack of discipline (in every sense of the word) and that is why they should start checking their road maps for colchester and scunthorpe

[Fife Rover]

A point about Andrews, Big Sam has managed us for four league games thus far and how many games/minutes has Andrews played?

If not all of them, then most of them.

He is an unsung hero and someone who I respect because:

1. He is a Blackburn Rovers FC player who gives 100% every time he plays.

2. Because he can play!! Look at the work he did for the 3rd goal for proof on that.

He is a good squad player and we paid £700K for him- a bargain.

Criticism is fine but to keep throwing the league 2 jibe in EVERY time he plays, good or bad is something unbecoming of a Rovers supporter.

You are absolutely right IMY9. Maybe some of them would do themselves (and us) a bit of good if they spent less time on here and more time doing their homework.

[Oklahoma]

I don't understand why people want Barton.

No matter how good he might be, he is a problem. and I prefer other teams have those problems than us.

[AggyBlue]

That's tight, it was straight 10's all the way. It was a sublime piece of skill.

He was clearly tripped and then stamped on. Two fouls both deserving of a penalty.

I think he should have been awarded two pens

[Fife Rover]

Indeed what people call 'long ball' I prefer 'direct football'. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a mixture and all good teams will play both. The complete dud that we had for the first half of the season would have had us passing squarely on the half way line until we invariably lost possession on the pretext of playing something called 'good passing football'. Well the best pass yesterday was for the second goal yesterday took about 5 seconds to get from Robinsons boot to the back of the net. Touble is that when we do it the press and media (and even our own supporters) moan about it being long ball, done by Arsenal or Man utd it becomes 'breathtaking football'.

Better than you expected Paul? Hmmm that applies better to Ince's time in charge in my opinion, how tf he got past the end of October as I predicted at the start I'll never know, and but for much sheep-like stupidity displayed by so many of the Ewood faithful Allardyce should have had the job the minute Hughes went. We are still in deep sh1t without a doubt but at least we are unbeaten and are mightily disappointed to only have gleaned 8 out of 12 from the teams around us. Much sterner tests still to come of course but I can only think of one daft bguger (maybe 2) that would still prefer Ince to be here.

For once Theno you and I are in complete agreement. It was obvious to a blind man that Allardyce was the perfect match to our requirements. What he had achieved at Bolton was amazing given the size of his transfer budgets and the size of the support as well. Both Rovers and Bolton ars so alike in so many respects, added to which Sam's knowledge of the game and the EPL and all it's pitfalls made him the ONLY one that could and would do the job and do it properly. Note I said properly not prettily; there are far too many starry-eyed dreamers on here that spend too much time watching foreign teams and day dreaming that a team from a small Lancashire mill-town in steep decline can ever even hope to employ the players whose names are thrown about on here on a daily basis. Sam knows exactly what is required and what is attainable, Under him we will not go down, and if he had been given the job when Hughes left, the situation we are presently in would never have arisen.

Oh, and before anyone decides to take a swing at me for my posts that tended to say things like "give him a chance" when Ince was under fire from one and all, that was because he was by then "our manager" and we had no other choice...it did not mean I liked the situation.

[tony gale's mic]

What he had achieved at Bolton was amazing given the size of his transfer budgets and the size of the support as well. Both Rovers and Bolton ars so alike in so many respects, added to which Sam's knowledge of the game and the EPL and all it's pitfalls made him the ONLY one that could and would do the job and do it properly. Note I said properly not prettily; there are far too many starry-eyed dreamers on here that spend too much time watching foreign teams and day dreaming that a team from a small Lancashire mill-town in steep decline can ever even hope to employ the players whose names are thrown about on here on a daily basis

Disagree a fair amount here. He certainly wasn't the ONLY one who could've done a good job and you forget our first choice strike pairing were both Champions League winners not so long ago with their respective clubs.

Allardyce would've done a stable job had he joined in summer and the anti-Sam sentiments were undeserved, but I don't buy into the whole "small town" arguments, for me they're endemic of the lack of ambition which droves Hughes out in the first place. We had Laudrup and ten Cate wanting to come, one a promising manager who had done well in Europe and domestically for the last four years with teams playing exciting attacking football, and another who was experienced, had a good track record managing before and knew the Premiership well. Both also spoke fluent English, so there'd be less chance of another Ramos on our hands.

Lack of ambition is maybe a little harsh, but why not appoint one of those two? They'd proven their skills elsewhere at the highest levels, so there wouldn't be an Ince-style failure, they'd be appointments that would've turned heads (well Laudrup especially) and would've had more contacts around Europe for signings etc than the other candidates I'd imagine too. They'd also taken small teams quite far in both their careers, so no issues there. Yes we're a small Lancashire club but at the time we were also a firmly established top 10 side in the most prestigious league in the world.

I still maintain that with Allardyce, while most of us were harsh on him in the summer, he still wouldn't have been the best appointment at the time. However while nicko told us that JW chose Allardyce over Mancini, I fully backed that decision with the position we were in at the time, though it would've had me tearing my hair out in summer.

[joey_big_nose]

I like Allardyce, and he does suit us in many many respects. All I want is him to develop the style of play so that we mix things up . Good set pieces, great organisation, high work rate, doubling up defensively - all that I am hugely in favour of. But also look to build the play when we have the ball.

The reason the fans are concerned is because in the first hour we were only looking for the direct ball. In a way it made sense because the Newcastle defence are weak and panicky, and there was always a possibility of a missed high ball that Roberts in particular could exploit with his pace and power (and indeed did for the second goal). However if we do that against more organised teams (like Fulham for example) we won't be able to hurt them.

That said there is enough in the other three Prem games under Allardyce to suggest that the approach against Toon was maybe a one off. I await next weekend with interest to see how we play. Sunderland have got a better back line and defend deeper so perhaps we will look to move the ball around more, especially with Dunn and Grella available, and open them up rather than look for them to make mistakes.

It is not just motivated by a desire to see classy football, but also that we need more than one trick if we are going to win the amount of games we need.

For Sam's own career to progress, and to lose the associations which ultimately cost him the England job, he will need to develop a more passing style. That is why I am hopeful.

[jim mk2]

Lack of ambition is maybe a little harsh, but why not appoint one of those two? .

Appointing either Ten Cate or Laudrup would have been a gamble in the same way Ince was appointed on a hunch by Williams in the hope that he might be all right.

With our meagre income and resources compared with our rivals, Rovers cannot afford to gamble and need a safe pair of hands - which is why Allardyce or McClaren (a good club manager for all his shortcomings with England) were the only 2 candidates who should have been considered in the summer.

[John]

With our meagre income and resources compared with our rivals, Rovers cannot afford to gamble and need a safe pair of hands

Exactly.

[tony gale's mic]

Appointing either Ten Cate or Laudrup would have been a gamble in the same way Ince was appointed on a hunch by Williams in the hope that he might be all right.

With our meagre income and resources compared with our rivals, Rovers cannot afford to gamble and need a safe pair of hands - which is why Allardyce or McClaren (a good club manager for all his shortcomings with England) were the only 2 candidates who should have been considered in the summer.

Sorry but that's a very, very foolish comparison to make.

Laudrup assistant managed Denmark, managed Brondby in the Danish League, won trophies there and did well in Europe, and then took over at Getafe, a small team in La Liga and did well with them domestically and in Europe.

Ten Cate had managed small teams and done well with them, had managed Ajax, assistant managed at Barcelona and Chelsea and has now taken little Panathinaikos into the last 16 of the Champions League, topping a group that included Mourinho's Inter and a very handy Werder Bremen side.

Ince had never managed outside of League Two.

While those two managers might've needed a little time to find their feet, they would've had much, much more of a clue about how to manage Rovers than Ince and we would have at the very worst have fallen to lower mid-table with them in charge, although I think had we appointed either of them from the start we would've done very well with them.

Sam would've been an acceptable choice in the summer, an OK choice and was the 100% right man for the job once Ince got us into this mess. But those two wouldn't have been anything like the risks you say and chances are they would've created a real buzz around Ewood again and got results on the pitch.

[rover6]

Exactly.

Hughes was a gamble. He did a good job at Wales but it did tail off at the end, with criticism mounting for his love of John Hartson and 4-5-1.

It is right, in the right circumstances, to gamble, because the risks may be high but the rewards can be even higher.

[jim mk2]

While those two managers .... we would have at the very worst have fallen to lower mid-table with them in charge, .

Conjecture.

Sam would've been an acceptable choice in the summer, an OK choice and was the 100% right man for the job once Ince got us into this mess. But those two wouldn't have been anything like the risks you say and chances are they would've created a real buzz around Ewood again and got results on the pitch.

They might have been a success..... and they might not. There's a fair chance Laudrup would have struggled because managing in the Prem is much harsher environment than the leagues he's been working in. Either way, appointing a foreign manager increases the risks, and they are risks Rovers cannot take at present.

[imy9]

Have read Kinnears comments and had to chuckle, he is blaming Keegan and Big Sam for the state of Newcastle:

Looking at Big Sam, his record at Newcastle was:

Won 8

Draw 10

Lost 6

That is a better record than Kinnear and Keegan.

What a world Newcastle live in when they offer Kinnear a "lucrative contract" after winning FOUR games and bringing stability to the club! What tosh!

Kind of reminds me Ince where he is blaming but himself.

[tony gale's mic]

Conjecture.

They might have been a success..... and they might not. There's a fair chance Laudrup would have struggled because managing in the Prem is much harsher environment than the leagues he's been working in. Either way, appointing a foreign manager increases the risks, and they are risks Rovers cannot take at present.

You say conjecture, but that can be extended to anything - Capello has never managed in the Premier League but would we call me saying we wouldn't get relegated with him in charge as "conjecture"? Managing in La Liga is still one of the hardest leagues in Europe and there's many factors which make that a very unforgiving environment too. I think it's fairly safe to say that they wouldn't have taken us to such a spectacular decline, if ten Cate can take Pana to top of a Champions League group in front of Mourinho's Inter, it is safe to say he would've kept us above 18th.

Your viewpoint is skewed now because of what's happened this season, but there's a marked difference between the position we're in now and the position we were in the summer. Had I been arguing that we should've got Mancini instead of Allardyce second time round, your arguments would've been valid. But comparing appointing Ince to appointing either of those two is doing both of them a great disservice.

Sam will take us to around 10th on an average season, give or take a place or two. Those managers could've taken us top 6. And with their track records, previous successes, footballing minds etc, I'd say it's very doubtful we would've been in a serious relegation struggle with them.

[jim mk2]

Sam will take us to around 10th on an average season, give or take a place or two. Those managers could've taken us top 6. And with their track records, previous successes, footballing minds etc, I'd say it's very doubtful we would've been in a serious relegation struggle with them.

Given the funds and a fair wind, Allardyce is perfectly capable of taking Rovers into the top six. After getting his fingers burnt at a "big club" he's also likely to be with us for 5 years or more. Could you say the same about ten Cate and Laudrup, particualrly the latter who according to reports seemed to have a very high opinion of himself and probably viewed Rovers as a stepping stone to something better ?

[thenodrog]

Sam will take us to around 10th on an average season, give or take a place or two. Those managers could've taken us top 6. And with their track records, previous successes, footballing minds etc, I'd say it's very doubtful we would've been in a serious relegation struggle with them.

Yeah right. I rem Scolari was the best thing since sliced bread in the summer but now there is one big question mark over his head. Maybe foreign coaches just like some foreign players need to experience a season or two in the Prem before they can adapt. With Allardyce we knew what we were getting and the only explanation for the hostile attitude towards him imo is that 'familiarity breeds contempt'. At this moment in time with our circumstances and our resources I would not swap him for the likes of Scolari, Mourinho, Benitez or any of the big time Charlies that we know can only perform with almost limitless funding.

[tony gale's mic]

Given the funds and a fair wind, Allardyce is perfectly capable of taking Rovers into the top six. After getting his fingers burnt at a "big club" he's also likely to be with us for 5 years or more. Could you say the same about ten Cate and Laudrup, particualrly the latter who according to reports seemed to have a very high opinion of himself and probably viewed Rovers as a stepping stone to something better ?

We'll see. My opinion of Sam is that he's a good solid manager who makes an excellent job of his abilities but I'd rate ten Cate as better (he's achieved at more clubs than him, has a much broader scale of achievement, especially considering what he's doing with Pana, wouldve had much more contacts around Europe etc) and Laudrup as having the potential to be better. Additionally, the two others have a reputation for playing exciting, attractive football. Don't get me wrong, I stand completely against that being used as a primary factor in deciding a manager, but when discriminating between managers who could all do a good job, then I'd say it's a finer point with which to separate them. I agree Sam is unfairly painted sometimes as merely a long ball merchant, but these two managers were particularly noted for their positive football so I was saying that more as a plus for them than a minus for Sam.

And on your second point, I think if any big club came in for either of those, it'd mean they'd have been doing an excellent job. If a big club came in for them, they would've needed to have further improved on a side who'd finished in the top 10 for 3 seasons and had just finished 7th. If they did that, then we still would've been in a better position at the end of it.

If Sam does well enough to attract a big club's attention, it's rather naive to think he wouldn't jump at the chance. If he spends a couple of years here, gets us into Europe but like Hughes gets frustrated at the lack of money and Spurs were to come in, he'd be off in a flash. I know the Newcastle thing still rankles with him, it must do, and I'm sure he'd dearly love a second go at a big club.