[Archived] Newcastle United Preview

[American]

Remember that only one person said we had a chance at HTC. At the same time he was going to be "interviewed" Pana had already announced him as the new manager.

[tony gale's mic]

Yeah right. I rem Scolari was the best thing since sliced bread in the summer but now there is one big question mark over his head. Maybe foreign coaches just like some foreign players need to experience a season or two in the Prem before they can adapt. With Allardyce we knew what we were getting and the only explanation for the hostile attitude towards him imo is that 'familiarity breeds contempt'. At this moment in time with our circumstances and our resources I would not swap him for the likes of Scolari, Mourinho, Benitez or any of the big time Charlies that we know can only perform with almost limitless funding.

ten Cate had good experience of the Premiership and good experience of management, just because the two weren't at the same time it barely would've made one jot of difference so that doesn't apply to him whatsoever.

Laudrup's experience and previous successes at the highest levels should've seen him through. Yours and jim's arguments revolve around "this moment in time" but in the summer we were 7th and had just had three successive top 10 finishes, and before then had a good season or two under Souness aswell. Despite our financial situation we were in a fairly safe situation and it was the perfect time to get an exciting appointment in. The reason why we ended up where we were is because we made an appointment that was so utterly catastrophically bad. And even then the situation looks like being retrievable.

With no language barrier (see Ramos, Scolari too), and a history of adapting to different countries well (many foreign managers who fail come straight from either Spain or Italy) it's massively probable they would've done well.

Remember that only one person said we had a chance at HTC. At the same time he was going to be "interviewed" Pana had already announced him as the new manager.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q...earch&meta=

It's a no brainer that given the choice, he'd choose a Premier League side over a Greek League one.

Panathinaikos had also claimed they'd reached "an agreement" with Laudrup two weeks previously.

[John]

You obviously rate him as one of the best managers around, but it was widely reported that Ten Cate was despised by a lot of people at Chelsea (importantly the players had a lack of respect for him).

Apparently he swears and shouts a lot and he even banned laughing from training! Makes some of the Paul Ince stories seem ok.

[tony gale's mic]

You obviously rate him as one of the best managers around, but it was widely reported that Ten Cate was despised by a lot of people at Chelsea (importantly the players had a lack of respect for him).

Apparently he swears and shouts a lot and he even banned laughing from training! Makes some of the Paul Ince stories seem ok.

No need to put words into my mouth...

I rate him as just about the best manager we could've got, there's a bit of a marked difference there.

"Apparently he shouts and swears a lot", first problem being "apparently" and second being "what came after". I'm fairly sure Fergie shouts and swears a lot and I very much doubt his training sessions are laugh a minute. Barca and Chelsea did well when he was around though, Pana have done very well in the Champions League under him and he managed some small teams pretty successfully in Holland too, so really again these Ince comparisons are a very poor argument.

I just think it's a shame that some of our fans have such little ambition. I'm not saying we're going to win the title, but even winning a domestic trophy, establishing ourselves as a top 6 side, European runs, maybe launching a cheeky bid to get into the top 4 one year, playing exciting football (note this comes after everything else) - all achievable aims. Sam vs Mancini when we were 5 points from the drop zone - Sam every time, 100%, despite Mancini's three Scudetti. Sam vs HTC and Laudrup when we were an established top 10 side was a different story.

[John]

I just think it's a shame that some of our fans have such little ambition.

Sounds like somone is a tad obsessed with Ten Cate!

Think you need to look at our net spending over the past few years and then ponder what the amibition of the club should realistically be.

[jim mk2]

. Sam vs HTC and Laudrup when we were an established top 10 side was a different story.

Conjecture (again).... Allardyce turned Bolton into a top 7 side (fact).

If we avoid relegation (still a big IF in my book), I expect us to finish considerably higher next season.

[tony gale's mic]

Sounds like somone is a tad obsessed with Ten Cate!

Think you need to look at our net spending over the past few years and then ponder what the amibition of the club should realistically be.

Bit childish, John..I was saying that both Laudrup and HTC would've been better bets in the summer.

Think you need to look at our performance over the last few years. Football isn't just about money, look at Arsenal's net spending over the last few years against Spurs' and Newcastle's. Money is what stops us from going anywhere near a title challenge, but that's about it. It's what happens on the pitch that's the main issue.

We're a well run club and the aims I listed should have been the aims of the management when looking for a new manager in the summer. There's no harm in setting your aims high, unless they're completely unrealistic it's the way it should be. If you just have survival as your aim and you play to that, then if you miss it you're in a hell of a lot of trouble.

[tony gale's mic]

Conjecture (again).... Allardyce turned Bolton into a top 7 side (fact).

If we avoid relegation (still a big IF in my book), I expect us to finish considerably higher next season.

Ha that's quite funny, I back Sam completely to keep us up, whereas you're much more confident he'll get us into the top 6 than I am (if we stay up). Still, we shall see...

He'll be alright, but I predict 10th next season. And I think thats where we would've finished this season if he was around from day one too.

[1864roverite]

Have read Kinnears comments and had to chuckle, he is blaming Keegan and Big Sam for the state of Newcastle:

Looking at Big Sam, his record at Newcastle was:

Won 8

Draw 10

Lost 6

That is a better record than Kinnear and Keegan.

What a world Newcastle live in when they offer Kinnear a "lucrative contract" after winning FOUR games and bringing stability to the club! What tosh!

Kind of reminds me Ince where he is blaming EVERYONE but himself.

But thats just the fishbowl that Geordie Barcodes live in.

Do you not realise that NUFC Barcodes are THE biggest club in the Universe ?

Do you not know that NUFC Barcodes are the best supported team in the land ?

Do you not realise that NUFC Barcodes expect the WORLDS classiest players to sign each and every year such is their dominance of all things football ?

Come on Imy, I thought you knew better lad

[brfcs5359]

I like Allardyce, and he does suit us in many many respects. All I want is him to develop the style of play so that we mix things up . Good set pieces, great organisation, high work rate, doubling up defensively - all that I am hugely in favour of. But also look to build the play when we have the ball.

The reason the fans are concerned is because in the first hour we were only looking for the direct ball. In a way it made sense because the Newcastle defence are weak and panicky, and there was always a possibility of a missed high ball that Roberts in particular could exploit with his pace and power (and indeed did for the second goal). However if we do that against more organised teams (like Fulham for example) we won't be able to hurt them.

That said there is enough in the other three Prem games under Allardyce to suggest that the approach against Toon was maybe a one off. I await next weekend with interest to see how we play. Sunderland have got a better back line and defend deeper so perhaps we will look to move the ball around more, especially with Dunn and Grella available, and open them up rather than look for them to make mistakes.

It is not just motivated by a desire to see classy football, but also that we need more than one trick if we are going to win the amount of games we need.

For Sam's own career to progress, and to lose the associations which ultimately cost him the England job, he will need to develop a more passing style. That is why I am hopeful.

Aside the second hand car salesman jibe, my thoughts exactly. BRFC is a big test for BFS because he will get typecast if he doesn't watch it. PLus Rovers fans scoffed at Bolton for direct football, short term contracts, mercenary squads. Rovers has been a family club where loyalty counts for a lot, where there is a tradition of trophies and history that aspires us to play the game a more pleasing way than hoof-flung-dung.

[philipl]

For what its worth I fully support tony gale's mike in the little exchange above.

All academic now-

So far, so very good with Sam and what a fantastic three points that was against Newcastle. Any less and we would have been forelorn and adrift at the bottom. As it is banging three goals in without reply have lifted us out of the bottom three PI (the Previous Incumbent for those of a sensitive nature) so accurately forecast was to be our fate at his first news conference.

I had not anticipated Sam would lift us to 17th so quickly (and a game in hand against a now awful Fulham side judging by their surrender at WHam today) and the football has not been bad at all. I'll whisper it but I always felt the criticism of Sam's Notlob was a bit over-done (just a bit).

Two huge league games in a few days- Bolton home and Boro away but the Feb/March period now looks tough but not so "bomb alley" with Hull in freefall and Fulham in there to mix it with Villa home and United, Arsenal and Liverpool away. At least when we play the top 5, we won't have given up befotre we've started now. That much we can be sure of under Sam.

[gumboots]

For what its worth I fully support tony gale's mike in the little exchange above.

All academic now-

So far, so very good with Sam and what a fantastic three points that was against Newcastle. Any less and we would have been forelorn and adrift at the bottom. As it is banging three goals in without reply have lifted us out of the bottom three PI (the Previous Incumbent for those of a sensitive nature) so accurately forecast was to be our fate at his first news conference.

I had not anticipated Sam would lift us to 17th so quickly (and a game in hand against a now awful Fulham side judging by their surrender at WHam today) and the football has not been bad at all. I'll whisper it but I always felt the criticism of Sam's Notlob was a bit over-done (just a bit).

Two huge league games in a few days- Bolton home and Boro away but the Feb/March period now looks tough but not so "bomb alley" with Hull in freefall and Fulham in there to mix it with Villa home and United, Arsenal and Liverpool away. At least when we play the top 5, we won't have given up befotre we've started now. That much we can be sure of under Sam.

I take it you never sat at the Reebok on a freezing cold day watching Bolton under allardyce? They were every bit as bad as the critics would have you believe. However, we are not Bolton. We have a completely different set of players not necessarily suited to that style of play and it would be silly of allardyce to try to get our players to play like that week in, week out. Obvioulsy there are times when the long ball type of tactic is effective even for us. Style of football, however, has never been my objection to Allardyce. I don't like him, but couldn't at this stage care less how we win as long as we do. the fact that we are still capable of scoring well worked goals is an added bonus.

[92er]

In fairness Barton was right in blaming the mags full back for his half arsed attempt to run back and defend. The idle git was simply going through the motions.

I watched a number of antics,involving Barton that started with an incident with a ball boy(?) in front of the JW stand. The ball was thrown at him harder than it needed to be (shades of what happened a number of years with a Bolton player-Diouf ? ). After he threw it, he turned round to the ball boy and did an inappropriate,and unnecessary, hand gesture.

After he was booked, instead of putting in a shift, he concentrated more on complaining to the ref.

After the third goal, he appeared to start off slating their striker who has recently come on, but as he wasn't getting anywhere with him, turned his attentions to Enrique. What also struck me was the peace making role Given played, as captain.

Quite clearly Barton has major problems on and off the pitch, and it is a real inditment of an industry that has so huge a turnover that there aren't systems in place to help such individuals, if indeed they are willing to accept such help.

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

What also struck me was the peace making role Given played, as captain.

Owen was captain.

[gumboots]

I watched a number of antics,involving Barton that started with an incident with a ball boy(?) in front of the JW stand. The ball was thrown at him harder than it needed to be (shades of what happened a number of years with a Bolton player-Diouf ? ). After he threw it, he turned round to the ball boy and did an inappropriate,and unnecessary, hand gesture.

After he was booked, instead of putting in a shift, he concentrated more on complaining to the ref.

After the third goal, he appeared to start off slating their striker who has recently come on, but as he wasn't getting anywhere with him, turned his attentions to Enrique. What also struck me was the peace making role Given played, as captain.

Quite clearly Barton has major problems on and off the pitch, and it is a real inditment of an industry that has so huge a turnover that there aren't systems in place to help such individuals, if indeed they are willing to accept such help.

he's had loads of help offered in terms of anger management training and so on but some people just can't do it. they have to be so determined to stick to it and apply what they learn but to do that you've got to really want to change. I'm not sure Barton does

[RoyRover]

I watched a number of antics,involving Barton that started with an incident with a ball boy(?) in front of the JW stand. The ball was thrown at him harder than it needed to be (shades of what happened a number of years with a Bolton player-Diouf ? ). After he threw it, he turned round to the ball boy and did an inappropriate,and unnecessary, hand gesture.

After he was booked, instead of putting in a shift, he concentrated more on complaining to the ref.

After the third goal, he appeared to start off slating their striker who has recently come on, but as he wasn't getting anywhere with him, turned his attentions to Enrique. What also struck me was the peace making role Given played, as captain.

Quite clearly Barton has major problems on and off the pitch, and it is a real inditment of an industry that has so huge a turnover that there aren't systems in place to help such individuals, if indeed they are willing to accept such help.

Barton is a lunatic. If he wasn't any good at football, he just be a thug, out in the street, throwing stones and beating people up. Oh wait... He obviously has a lot of anger issues and no matter how many chances he is given, he just doesn't know how to behave and curb his anger.

[thenodrog]

Style of football, however, has never been my objection to Allardyce. I don't like him, but couldn't at this stage care less how we win as long as we do. the fact that we are still capable of scoring well worked goals is an added bonus.

Thats a shame gumboots ............. cos I've heard that he speaks so highly of you.

I watched a number of antics,involving Barton that started with an incident with a ball boy(?) in front of the JW stand. The ball was thrown at him harder than it needed to be (shades of what happened a number of years with a Bolton player-Diouf ? ). After he threw it, he turned round to the ball boy and did an inappropriate,and unnecessary, hand gesture.

innapropriate? unecessary? It was a half arsed wave. I didn't see what went on but I'm guessing that somebody held onto the ball a bit too long or proferred a gesture / comment toward Barton. His action / wave seemed in fairly good spirit to me.

[gumboots]

Thats a shame gumboots ............. cos I've heard that he speaks so highly of you.

wouldn't expect him to even if he knew me. Popularity has never been my big thing. In fact I'm a perfect rovers fan in some respects - no-one likes me and I've never really cared. You can't help who you like and don't like. you can work on being polite to those you don't like to appear like a civilised human being and most of the time I manage that. Of course there are times when i let myself down but then I'm still a work in progress.

[92er]

Not much has been made about Samba's injury, which, at the time, I thought was a severe clash of heads, although I did wonder why Carroll didn't seem to be suffering much.

On Radio Lancs today, Allardyce was complaining about the Newcastle forward using his arm. He sounded quite worried, saying that Samba's eye really was a mess and hoping the socket had not been damaged.

[JAL]

Not much has been made about Samba's injury, which, at the time, I thought was a severe clash of heads, although I did wonder why Carroll didn't seem to be suffering much.

On Radio Lancs today, Allardyce was complaining about the Newcastle forward using his arm. He sounded quite worried, saying that Samba's eye really was a mess and hoping the socket had not been damaged.

Sambas injury and subsequent withdrawal was probably the first big key point to winning the game, why? Andre Ooijer was played in his favoured position centre half, which then meant Bret Emmerton played in probabaly his strongest position and to add to this Dunny goes in front of Emmerton. All of a sudden the back four looks a little bit more balanced and comfortable with two International captains in the centre of defence complimented with two potentially attacking full backs and a more creative midfielder on the pitch - WOW were on our way !

Got to say when Tugay was on in the second half Rovers were defending ten to fifteen yards inside their own half when Grella came on for Tugay we started to defend further up the field ten to fifteen yards inside the Newcastle half such a contrast and then the team began to make their own luck.

What a contrast from the City game when Mokoena and Derbyshire came on Rovers never really went forward into the City half just backwards.

[colbert]

Dont know if this has been talked about but did you notice Nelson changed his shirt and had no.50 on it with no name. You would think the team would have some spare shirts with there name and numbers on it, especially playing at home.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Sambas injury and subsequent withdrawal was probably the first big key point to winning the game, why? Andre Ooijer was played in his favoured position centre half, which then meant Bret Emmerton played in probabaly his strongest position and to add to this Dunny goes in front of Emmerton. All of a sudden the back four looks a little bit more balanced and comfortable with two International captains in the centre of defence complimented with two potentially attacking full backs and a more creative midfielder on the pitch - WOW were on our way !

I agree that we looked more solid when Samba went off but i don't agree that Samba was the problem at the weekend. The problem is Ooijer cannot play at right back anymore.

[JAL]

I agree that we looked more solid when Samba went off but i don't agree that Samba was the problem at the weekend. The problem is Ooijer cannot play at right back anymore.

Yeh, what i'm trying to say is it was the kick start of enabing players to play in their true positions plus add an extra creative player into the team. All of sudden then for the first time this season Rovers looked like a team capable of achieving something.

It has taken until the midlle of january in a season and two managers to get to this stage.

[Neil Weaver]

Dont know if this has been talked about but did you notice Nelson changed his shirt and had no.50 on it with no name. You would think the team would have some spare shirts with there name and numbers on it, especially playing at home.

When he got the cut (about half an hour?) he got patched up on the touchline and got a new 'Nelsen 6' shirt, presume the original got bloodstained. You're right, after half time he re-appeared with a '50' shirt : maybe the shirt he got after half an hour got blood on it too, and there wasn't a third 'Nelsen 6' shirt ready and waiting?

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

It was in celebration of the 50th time he's had to change his top.