[Archived] Speed Camera's Again

[den]

The only problem is that education and training and investment on the road infrastructure is needed to curb such activities - and that costs money rather than raises it . At present it is in the government's interest for the cameras to remain . Safety doesn't come into it . Money does .

Phil, how do you educate the man who believes that he's of no danger to anyone, when he's driving along the motorway at 90 MPH? How do you educate the man who believes that he knows how fast he can drive safely? Or is it the people who set the speed limits that need educating?

[thenodrog]

to see that the "experts" are finally beginning to tentatively address the serious problem of excessive speeds on country lanes - where , incredibly , it is still possible to hurtle along at 60 MPH . I know of many such roads that don't even have the room for two cars to pass each other !

Not many of thoise actually have two cars on em!

Anyway it's daft not many people would dream of doing 60 on that type of road. 40 usually seems damned excessive.

[thenodrog]

Phil, how do you educate the man who believes that he's of no danger to anyone, when he's driving along the motorway at 90 MPH?

I'm sure that I am not alone in suggesting that 90mph IS perfectly safe on Mways when conditions allow? Providing that one is not in a small car that is. The difference between 70mph and 90mph in a micra/corsa etc compared to 90% of German cars is quite startling. The latter handling far better and stopping much quicker than the former. Small cars really should be restricted to 70mph.

[jim mk2]

I'm sure that I am not alone in suggesting that 90mph IS perfectly safe on Mways when conditions allow? Providing that one is not in a small car that is. The difference between 70mph and 90mph in a micra/corsa etc compared to 90% of German cars is quite startling. The latter handling far better and stopping much quicker than the former. Small cars really should be restricted to 70mph.

Thank you Mr BMW driver.

I'd quite happy for drivers to speed at 90mph as long as they only kill themselves in an accident.

Trouble is, they usually kill law-abiding folk at the same time.

[thenodrog]

Thank you Mr BMW driver.

I'd quite happy for drivers to speed at 90mph as long as they only kill themselves in an accident.

Trouble is, they usually kill law-abiding folk at the same time.

Normal service HAS been resumed.

btw for the umpteenth time I do not drive a BMW! They are for people of limited style and taste.

[den]

I'm sure that I am not alone in suggesting that 90mph IS perfectly safe on Mways when conditions allow?

Should there be a speed limit at all then? No? If yes, then how do we control that without camera's? The suggestion is education, - what's that mean exactly?

[gillibrand]

Just buy a tomtom with speed camara alerts on and save yourselves this moaning thread.

[ABBEY]

Thank you Mr BMW driver.

I'd quite happy for drivers to speed at 90mph as long as they only kill themselves in an accident.

Trouble is, they usually kill law-abiding folk at the same time.

EXPALIN HOW MR GEREATRIC HAS JUST FORCED ME OVER THE KERB BY CUTTING STRAIGHT ACROSS ME ON WHITEBURK ROUNDABOUT AND WHEN I JUMPED OUT AT THE LIGHTS HE SAID OH I DINT SEE YOU ....WELL GET SOME EFFING GLASSES THEN YOU STUPID BLIND PRAT...SPEED NO..

[colin]

EXPALIN HOW MR GEREATRIC HAS JUST FORCED ME OVER THE KERB BY CUTTING STRAIGHT ACROSS ME ON WHITEBURK ROUNDABOUT AND WHEN I JUMPED OUT AT THE LIGHTS HE SAID OH I DINT SEE YOU ....WELL GET SOME EFFING GLASSES THEN YOU STUPID BLIND PRAT...SPEED NO..

Abbey,

One geriatric and stupid driver does not negate the use of anything. We've all met them driving in the middle lane of the motorway at 45mph.

I can't understand him, you can't understand him & neither can anyone else.

For everyone else.

The suggestion of a 50 mph on rural roads is just that. A suggestion. It's a proposal. There is no indication that it will involve speed/safety cameras. I'll be quite happy to drive on rural roads at 50mph. I already do. It's really easy. When I drive on rural roads I'm aware that I may meet all manner of other road users and I'm aware of the danger they may cause to me and to themselves if I am going too fast.

The few seconds I may save on a journey by driving at 60mph: well I'll donate them to charity.

Take it easy folks. Keep the blood pressure down.

[ABBEY]

big brave blackburn plod hiding behind cars and vans parked on a car park waving the speed gun at cars on the new bridge this afternoon......WHY 3 POLICEMAN? WHAT A WASTE OF RESOURSES ,ANYTHING HAPPENS LIKE A BANK ROBBERY IN BROAD DAYLIGHT AND NOWHERE TO BE SEEN.

[blue phil]

"Experts" have been installing speed/safety cameras at places where there is a concentration of accidents. Maybe rural roads don't have this concentration of accidents.

I'm not sure where you are going with your other comment. Can you define why speed limits are the cause of accidents.

If you think think that it is "BAD driving and the INNAPPROPRIATE use of speed" then what is your solution? How are you suggesting that the problem be solved?

Cheers

Oh dear ........ rural roads may or not have the concentration of accidents - I don't have the figures to hand . Could it be ....just possibly ....that the "experts" have been concentrating on the more heavily populated roads because they are more fruitful in the financial sense . They're turning their attention now to the minor roads - but why now ? Why not 10 years ago ? Were the country lanes safer then ? Or is a new scource of revenue beckoning ? Maybe you believe they're wrong to be turning their attention to the minor roads ? Or have the "experts" been wrong all along to ignore the B roads - they can't have been right on both counts

I see no point in re-writing my posts on the anachronism of speed limits on the roads . If you haven't understood it thus far then you seem to have a problem that I can't help you with .

Likewise with the suggestions of how to solve the problem of safety on the roads . I've mentioned frequently speed bumps , speed limiting technology in cars , satellite technology , investment in the road infrastructure and above all a new look at the anachronistic apeed limits that were not even designed for the late 20th century let alone the 21st .- many of them came into force and haven't been changed since cars first came into fashion ! I'm not going to elaborate yet again simply because your powers of assimilating information seems to be fading fast .

Try reading my posts more carefully before you rush to condemn them , Col .......

Oh ...I nearly forgot ..

Cheers and good night .....or what's left of it in your case

[colin]

You've either got the intelligence to keep to a speed limit or you have not.

All the rest is mere fluff.

You get caught speeding then you are a bad driver.

[Al]

You've either got the intelligence to keep to a speed limit or you have not.

All the rest is mere fluff.

You get caught speeding then you are a bad driver.

That is probably the most arrogant and self important post I have ever read Colin. Who do you think you are to question peoples intelligence because they have a different view to you.

I have said before that I would not rise to the bait from any more of your posts but that just made me see red. You are just a WUM who argues just for the sake of it. you could cause a fight in an empty room.

Definitely my last reaction to your B/S.

[American]

Put him on ignore - has made my life happier, except when everyone quotes him!

[blue phil]

What infuriates me is that he never , ever , ever gives reasoned arguments to back up his beliefs .

It's like explaining something carefully and logically to a sullen kid .....and then having to do the same the next day when he's forgotten it all

Still , it passes the time I suppose

[colin]

That is probably the most arrogant and self important post I have ever read Colin. Who do you think you are to question peoples intelligence because they have a different view to you.

Definitely my last reaction to your B/S.

My post simply said that if you can't stick to the speed limit then you are probably a bad driver. There was nothing there to indicate an opinion of anyone's intelligence. Can you point out for me please where I suggested this?

Please stop inventing things to argue against and then expecting a reply.

It's like explaining something carefully and logically to a sullen kid .....and then having to do the same the next day when he's forgotten it all

Still , it passes the time I suppose

Another ad hominem reply, Well done.

[Al]

You've either got the intelligence to keep to a speed limit or you have not.

[Tris]

If there's any doubt that the whole sham of "safety" cameras on bridges above our motorways aren't there simply to generate revenue, then the wording of the "Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty" letter I have next to me kills that doubt stone dead.

The conditions for this offer of fixed penalty are as follows:

3. Acceptance of the offer is final.

4. No discussion or review of the facts of the case or other associated matter can take place.

Elsewhere however, the letter states that the offence carries a maximum fine of #1,000 and 3 to 6 penalty points, and that unless they have my cash and my driving licence within 28 days and "fail to comply fully with the conditions of this "offer"" then "I will be reported to the Procurator Fiscal for the consideration of a prosecution".

Now, if my offence of 89mph in the inside lane of a deserted motorway is such a heinous crime, then they should do me for the full thousand quid and the 6 points, leaving me just one further offence from a driving ban and seriously out of pocket. I wouldn't risk a repeat.

60 quid is hardly enough to go and watch Chelsea or Spurs play football, and nothing like enough to get a Michael Jackson ticket. It's a meaningless amount of money if such a bad crime has been committed.

However it's set at a level to ensure that 99.9% of people will pay up without a murmour and thus generate the revenue that the system is designed to generate - with "no discussion or review of the facts of the case" ever allowed. Bullying tactics to scare people away from getting a proper evaluation of the facts through the justice system.

3 points gives me 3 more chances to re-offend in the next 3 years (unlikely given that I've managed 18 years without a single driving offence) - but further proof that the system is designed to keep drivers who might generate this revenue firmly on the road.

If this was about safety and stopping people speeding, then the punishment for the crime would take offending drivers off the road immediately. But it isn't - it's purely and simply about generating revenue.

[dave birch]

I wonder how legal item 4 is?

That surely takes a way a basic right. I say that because of two instances in my driving past.

1. I saw a car sideswipe another car in a hit and run. I duly took the make and rego number of the offending car and gave it to the wronged driver. A couple of days later the coppers rang me, "was I right with that rego number?" as it belonged to a car hundreds of Klms away and had not been in Sydney.

2. I received a speeding ticket in the mail, 80kph in a 60 zone 10.30 at night. It turned out that it was an interstate car with the same rego number as my car. The fine was waived, but it took some convincing to get them to check the photo.

[thenodrog]

I wonder how legal item 4 is?

That surely takes a way a basic right. I say that because of two instances in my driving past.

1. I saw a car sideswipe another car in a hit and run. I duly took the make and rego number of the offending car and gave it to the wronged driver. A couple of days later the coppers rang me, "was I right with that rego number?" as it belonged to a car hundreds of Klms away and had not been in Sydney.

2. I received a speeding ticket in the mail, 80kph in a 60 zone 10.30 at night. It turned out that it was an interstate car with the same rego number as my car. The fine was waived, but it took some convincing to get them to check the photo.

An increasing crime. (I believe that being stopped and detained for drink driving can easily be avoided using this method). One might argue that it's the natural progression from inflexible and unfair speed control tactics.

btw Tris parking tickets now adopt the same inflexibility by offering a faceless and pointless appeal system and by offering the hook of paying half the fine if you pay within 14 days!

[thenodrog]

Just as a matter of interest who sets the speed limits on different roads and is it statistical, financial or scientific criteria which is applied? Nobody could quibble if a speed camera was located on the likes of the narrow Wensley Road with schools and houses both sides within feet of the carriageway (In fact 25mph is too fast there) but why is the same limit set and covered by speed camera's on the likes of the miles wide Preston New and Old roads, Bolton Road and the complete overkill on the Buncer and Spring Lane stretch?

We all know the ludicrous situation regarding the national 70mph MWay limit was set in the mid 60's by Castle when the most popular car was the primitive Ford Anglia with horse and cart type leafspring suspension and drum brakes all around. But why has this never been reviewed in the past 40 odd years? Todays BMW M whatevers, most of the Audi Quattro range and scores of Mercs, Mitsubishi's and Subaru's etc would lead the likes of Stirling Moss and Jim Clarke home in any Grand Prix that one cares to name. Obviously to a decent car 90-100mph must be the new 70?

I drove home on a virtually deserted MWay in dry windless conditions at 1.00 - 2.00pm the other night at speeds frequently in excess of the above and the car felt like it was on rails even when cornering or slowing. What could possibly be unsafe in that situation?

Come to think about it easily the most technology and engineering adept nation in Europe does not have a speed limit on the autobahns. I suggest this is the reason that everybody concerned with safety issues on here should buy a German car. It's completely logical, the vast majority of German cars are made to perform comfortably at high speeds and so by definition are obviously far safer at slower ones. Come to think about it should our ever so safety concious govt not insist that all cars sold in this country are built with suspension and brakes equal to the cars above? Should they not offer subsidy on such machines? It certainly should if road safety was really all that important over revenue! I await our group of limited spacially aware cyclists and sunny drivers to comment on the flaws in the science and logic employed by the german govt.

[blue phil]

3 points gives me 3 more chances to re-offend in the next 3 years (unlikely given that I've managed 18 years without a single driving offence) - but further proof that the system is designed to keep drivers who might generate this revenue firmly on the road.

The real giveaway is that you can quite easily nominate a third person to take the rap of 3 points .

They don't give a damn how safe you are as long as the money is paid .

In theory if you're rich enough you could get away with for as long as you have friends willing to help you out . That's cameras for you ; of course if it's a copper pulling you over you don't have that option .

[dave birch]

J

We all know the ludicrous situation regarding the national 70mph MWay limit was set in the mid 60's by Castle when the most popular car was the primitive Ford Anglia with horse and cart type leafspring suspension and drum brakes all around. But why has this never been reviewed in the past 40 odd years?

I'm pretty certain that the limit of 70mph was partly as a consequence of the oil crisis in 72/3 when the limit was reduced to 50mph and subsequently raised. Funnily enough, the optimum efficiency for a car is around the 50mph mark.

[den]

You gotta laugh.

Here we are full circle again. Some of you guys actually think you can drive at speed, perfectly safely - modern cars, false speed limits and all that! Well, None of the thousands of drivers involved in fatal accidents thought they were going to kill anyone, did they? The facts are chaps, speed kills. The faster you are travelling when an accident occurs, the more the number of people that will die. Hopefully you can all take that aboard and learn.

[thenodrog]

I'm pretty certain that the limit of 70mph was partly as a consequence of the oil crisis in 72/3 when the limit was reduced to 50mph and subsequently raised. Funnily enough, the optimum efficiency for a car is around the 50mph mark.

Wrong Dave that 70's jobby came later. Castle brought in the breathayser and the 70mph limit as Transport Sec in Wilsons govt. As minister of transport it was deemed significant that she couldn't drive. Half way down. http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/PRcastleB.htm

Soon to be overtaken by the mini the Ford Anglia was the most popular car on British roads.

Obviously it's way past time to review the MWay speed limit AND imo enforce better driving habits. Proper Lane discipline , slow driving, phone use and the enforcement of the 'Mirror signal manouevre' practice should be reinforced if we really want to maximise the benefits of our MWays. There is easily as much bad driving as speeding but nobody (and certainly not the police) even seem to care a fig about that. In fact if it could be categorised and measured as easily I'd wager that the vast majority of MWay accidents are caused by bad driving rather than speed. Speed being the soft target.