[Archived] Central Heating Service-had One Done Lately?

[Ozz]

In the last few months, I have heard or been involved in several conversations about central heating system servicing. In nearly all of them, the person doing the servicing has, regardless of the circumstances, and in different buildings and systems, strongly recommended a full flushing out or Powerflush of the system, pipes radiators etc.

Indeed, after I recently had a service done on mine, British Gas stated that unless I took them up on their quote of £590 to perform this power flushing job, they would not honour the warranty of the job they have just done. My system is approx 15 years old, so in my ignorance I thought it probably made sense, and was umming and ahhhing it when I started to hear similar tales from friends and family.

So I am now beginning to suspect that there is a scheme or lets call it an initiative to scare customers into having this expensive bit of work done.

So I would like to hear from anybody who has the same situation, and also from anybody involved in the industry who may be able to offer an opinion on the matter.

Anybody ?

[thenodrog]

In the last few months, I have heard or been involved in several conversations about central heating system servicing. In nearly all of them, the person doing the servicing has, regardless of the circumstances, and in different buildings and systems, strongly recommended a full flushing out or Powerflush of the system, pipes radiators etc.

Indeed, after I recently had a service done on mine, British Gas stated that unless I took them up on their quote of £590 to perform this power flushing job, they would not honour the warranty of the job they have just done. My system is approx 15 years old, so in my ignorance I thought it probably made sense, and was umming and ahhhing it when I started to hear similar tales from friends and family.

So I am now beginning to suspect that there is a scheme or lets call it an initiative to scare customers into having this expensive bit of work done.

So I would like to hear from anybody who has the same situation, and also from anybody involved in the industry who may be able to offer an opinion on the matter.

Anybody ?

My uneducated instinct tells me that you should tell em to f*** off. Sounds like a real scam. If the system contained Fernox and is topped up every now and again it should be OK with just the boiler requiring the occasional but regular servicing.

However I am neither a plumber nor a heating engineer.

[DeadlyDirk]

In the last few months, I have heard or been involved in several conversations about central heating system servicing. In nearly all of them, the person doing the servicing has, regardless of the circumstances, and in different buildings and systems, strongly recommended a full flushing out or Powerflush of the system, pipes radiators etc.

Indeed, after I recently had a service done on mine, British Gas stated that unless I took them up on their quote of £590 to perform this power flushing job, they would not honour the warranty of the job they have just done. My system is approx 15 years old, so in my ignorance I thought it probably made sense, and was umming and ahhhing it when I started to hear similar tales from friends and family.

So I am now beginning to suspect that there is a scheme or lets call it an initiative to scare customers into having this expensive bit of work done.

So I would like to hear from anybody who has the same situation, and also from anybody involved in the industry who may be able to offer an opinion on the matter.

Anybody ?

This is the first time I've heard the phrase 'powerflushing' so I'm no help to you at all but this article has a lot more about it which may be of help, http://www.kamco.co.uk/powerflushing.htm

An excellent forum however for discussing it would be, http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/ I just did a search on the forum for 'powerflushing' and there were a lot of topics about it where it has obviously been discussed in detail. The forum is all about trying to save people money so it would be a good starting point, if you can't find exactly what you want here then I'm sure if you start a new topic someone will be able to help you more than on here.

[Paul]

I'm no plumber but can but can pass on a couple of thngs. In the last year I've listened to a Radio 4 You and Yours programme that suggested while there can be instances when a "power flush" is required they are relatively rare. Y&Y seemed to conclude the majority of systems would not benefit from or needed the treatment. I also think you can test this to a extent for yourself. Bleed a radiator and if you have clear, relatively clean water coming out things are OK, if the water is badly discoloured or black there's a problem. Nothing to back this up except I took two radiators off last weekend. When I drained the radiators (not the system) water ran clean till the very end when it turned an oily black colour as the built up dirt came out of the bottom of the radiators. My system is 20+ years old.

[Cocker]

My service is getting done tomorrow so I will let you know.

[Ozz]

The two things that I'm concerned about are firstly the virtual blackmail from the British Gas engineer, saying unless I get the quote done by them then the repair of any subsequent failures will be chargeable, despite now being one month into a twelve month service contract. (£33 per month).

Secondly the tactic of frightening people other than myself into having unnecessary expensive work carried out, particularly in the coldest winter for ages.

I am trying to see if there is a lot of this going on, and if so I'm going to do something about it.

So if you here any examples of the flush being recommended, let me know on here.

Back to you Esther!

[Alan75]

As Paul says you can check your system.

Each installation will have its own characteristics. You may or may not have a problem, it depends on the installation and the quality of work when installed.

Often a drain down and flush through will remove any sedements (known as sludge in the trade)

Ask to speak to the local BG service manager, tell him/her that your getting a second opinion from E-ON

If it needs flushing get competative quotes which provide guarantees on the work.

[Cocker]

My service is getting done tomorrow so I will let you know.

My service was finished with "Changed your water pressure a little so it will come out hotter - see you in a year"

That will do for me

[jumpin']

I'm a plumber/heating engineer etc. Power flushing is required when installing a new boiler on an old system, but this leaves problems in the future, as it loosens scale from old radiators, which will start moving around the system, causing your boiler problems. Personally, a "leave in" cleanser and inhibitor should be alreyt, circa 30 squid. Power flushing is the new "black", as are condensing boilers etc. If you're not convinced, I'll powerflush your system for, ahem, 500 English Pounds Sterling, ahem Well it pays for me season ticket.

[1864roverite]

Ozz

bGas cant blackmail you, unfortunately the thing they do is legal.

why dont you try this one. Take out a central heating policy with them for 13 quid a month and in 30 days complain about the system not working and call themout, they have to attend in 24 hrs as part of their contract.

That way it works out cheaper for you.

Just a thought

[Ozz]

Well almost a year later and the boiler has finally died a death. A Worcester 240 combi 15 years old, of a coronary we believe.

So I need a new boiler fitting and have got British Gas coming tomorrow to discuss it. What I need from you lot is what is a realistic cost, and what kind of system to go for etc. I know nowt about this at all, and don't want to get shafted.

Any and all input welcome.

[beerwins]

Well almost a year later and the boiler has finally died a death. A Worcester 240 combi 15 years old, of a coronary we believe.

So I need a new boiler fitting and have got British Gas coming tomorrow to discuss it. What I need from you lot is what is a realistic cost, and what kind of system to go for etc. I know nowt about this at all, and don't want to get shafted.

Any and all input welcome.

Well I work with my brother in law I have been plumbing for around 3 years (decided to retrain as I got made redundant) he has been plumbing for about 15 years, we have changed 100s of combi boilers and the price usually depends on what boiler you are going for and the kilowatt needed ie: the higher ammount of rads will usually require a higher kilowatt boiler.

I couldnt really give a price as I dont really know the amount of rads that the boiler runs but I can give an example of a job we did AFTER British Gas had quoted £2,700 to an old lady in a standard terrace house.

The boiler we installed and we have installed many of them and proved to be less costly and just as reliable as the worcester is the vaillant ecotec 28 kw this boiler will run up to 10 big radiators and will usually set you back around £850.00, as for the cost of the job if it is a straight combi change we usually charge around £ 1300 (that includes the price of the boiler too) and it can be done in the day, if it is a change from a conventional system ( with header tanks in the attic) the price will be slightly higher as it usually takes around 2 days.

Always get plenty of quotes and I can guarantee that Britsh Gas will be amongst the highest and dont presume because of the reputable name that the job they do will be better, When they give you the price make sure you that you check the boiler they are going to install and get your own price from a plumbers merchants or the net to see how much they are going to add on top.

Hope this advice has helped you a bit.

[unluckymorton]

In the last few months, I have heard or been involved in several conversations about central heating system servicing. In nearly all of them, the person doing the servicing has, regardless of the circumstances, and in different buildings and systems, strongly recommended a full flushing out or Powerflush of the system, pipes radiators etc.

Indeed, after I recently had a service done on mine, British Gas stated that unless I took them up on their quote of £590 to perform this power flushing job, they would not honour the warranty of the job they have just done. My system is approx 15 years old, so in my ignorance I thought it probably made sense, and was umming and ahhhing it when I started to hear similar tales from friends and family.

So I am now beginning to suspect that there is a scheme or lets call it <i>an initiative</i> to scare customers into having this expensive bit of work done.

So I would like to hear from anybody who has the same situation, and also from anybody involved in the industry who may be able to offer an opinion on the matter.

Anybody ?

PM me if you want some advice, I'm in the plumbing and heating industry and have been for near 20yrs. For a start a powerflush should cost no more than £300 for an 8 radiator system with an extra £20 per radiator after that (half a day's labour, £17 flushing agents and use of flushing machine). It is true that boiler manufacturers will only validate the warranty if the system water is clean but this does not mean you MUST have a powerflush. It is possible to carry out a simple system water test to check if the system requires flushing.

The works that BG had carried out should have included for commissioning to manufacturers instructions... i.e to meet flushing requirements! to carry out the bench mark and installation certification a flushing procedure must be carried out.

Give me a shout and I'll be happy to help.

[thenodrog]

In the last few months, I have heard or been involved in several conversations about central heating system servicing. In nearly all of them, the person doing the servicing has, regardless of the circumstances, and in different buildings and systems, strongly recommended a full flushing out or Powerflush of the system, pipes radiators etc.

Indeed, after I recently had a service done on mine, British Gas stated that unless I took them up on their quote of £590 to perform this power flushing job, they would not honour the warranty of the job they have just done. My system is approx 15 years old, so in my ignorance I thought it probably made sense, and was umming and ahhhing it when I started to hear similar tales from friends and family.

So I am now beginning to suspect that there is a scheme or lets call it <i>an initiative</i> to scare customers into having this expensive bit of work done.

So I would like to hear from anybody who has the same situation, and also from anybody involved in the industry who may be able to offer an opinion on the matter.

Anybody ?

Whether you are planning on staying where you are long term you would be advised to look at alternatives to fossil fuels. Heat pumps whether ground source or air source claim to save between 50%-70% from your heating bills even with oil/gas at todays prices (neither will go down over the coming years btw) Coupled with a solar panel(s) even more. You will still need a boiler but if the figures claimed are kosher then it is a no brainer to install them. This is all fairly new technology in this country but I'm lead to believe that the skandi's / Germans / canadians etc are much further down this road.

Just google 'heat pumps' for more info.

[unluckymorton]

Whether you are planning on staying where you are long term you would be advised to look at alternatives to fossil fuels. Heat pumps whether ground source or air source claim to save between 50%-70% from your heating bills even with oil/gas at todays prices (neither will go down over the coming years btw) Coupled with a solar panel(s) even more. You will still need a boiler but if the figures claimed are kosher then it is a no brainer to install them. This is all fairly new technology in this country but I'm lead to believe that the skandi's / Germans / canadians etc are much further down this road.

Just google 'heat pumps' for more info.

Air source that are currently available in the UK heat pumps are not an fficient way to heat your home. The Air Source units require the outside temperature to be a minimum of 7degC for the to produce heat, therefore the 6kw electric back up heaters will kick in when the temperature is below 7degC.

Ground Source Heat pupmps are a better option but there is a lot of expense involved and the payback period is longer than the system life itself.

Solar Hot Water is always an option, however this is not a suitable option if you have a Combi even though there is now a combi converter on the market.

You do not need a central heating boiler for use with Air/Ground source but you do require an electrical back up unit.

By instaling renewable energies, you will make a minimal saving on your bils but will however be 'saving the earth'. The problem is that for every one renewable system installed correctly and efficiently there are two instaled badly and inneffeciently...

Solar panels & cylinders for your domestic hot water system can be very effective if designed and istalled correctly.

A good way to save money on fuel bills using renewable energy is to use PV (Photovoltaic panels create electricity and send electricity back through a puposely design electric meter back to the national grid and you get credited at a much lower ratefor electricity produced) panels or a wind turbine, but not the ones available from certain famous DIY stores!

[Flopsy]

There are grants available for what theno suggests I believe

[unluckymorton]

There are grants available for what theno suggests I believe

MCS accredited instalers can offer rebates of up to 60% of the renewable installation cost.

Beware of cowboys, the design of renewable systems is extremley stringent and must be carried out correctly, if the system is not designed correctly you may as well burn tyres to heat your property!

[Ozz]

Any of the plumber people whom offered kind advice on here who could help me with a small and simple cistern repair sometime tomorrow please PM me asap. Ballvalve assy needs replacing.

[Ozz]

Problem solved now thanks folks.

[Glenn]

My central heating tale of near-woe

When we bought this house 7 or so years ago, we knew it had a circa 1980 servowarm gas central heating system, which we knew was probably already past the end of it's expected life time, but I'd been told my an retired gas fitter than properly serviced it should still work for a while. So we signed to with homeserv for annual services, they turned up every year and looked at it, got me to sign a bit of paper and left. Then one year a different engineer came and said "I can't service that, you've built a cupboard around it (which were built 3 years previous), I can't get to "theses screws" to open "this cover" and lo', he couldn't. So he went away to do another job whilst I attacked the cupboard with a dremmel, and I played merry hell with HomeServe for 3 years of charging me for work they hadn't done. However, it got escalated and escalated but didn't get sorted on the day, the bloke did come back and do the service though. His response "Well, as it's 3 days before Christmas and you'll never get anyone out, I'll not officially condemn it today, but I'll be amazed if it lasts into the New Year. This thing here is just about dead and you'll never get a replacement one".

So, Christmas and New Year come and go and I'm still arguing with HomeServe. Their final response, "we have conflicting engineers reports" (which was obvious) "so we'd like to third engineer out" (fair enough I guess) "but don't worry, I doubt he'll condemn it" ...... woah, hold up, who mentioned condemning it? It's plainly on your mind by mentioning it, we were discussing you fraudulently charging me for work you haven't done and suddenly you're talking about condemning it. I politley told her that any representative of homeserv was not welcome and would be treated as a trespasser.

So, to this day, four or so years later, it's never had another service, the part that it wouldn't be economically viable to replace that won't last another three of four days is still holding out and bar a self-bleeding radiator value that got stuck open, it's been working fine !

[Paul]

Well I work with my brother in law I have been plumbing for around 3 years (decided to retrain as I got made redundant) he has been plumbing for about 15 years, we have changed 100s of combi boilers and the price usually depends on what boiler you are going for and the kilowatt needed ie: the higher ammount of rads will usually require a higher kilowatt boiler.

I couldnt really give a price as I dont really know the amount of rads that the boiler runs but I can give an example of a job we did AFTER British Gas had quoted £2,700 to an old lady in a standard terrace house.

The boiler we installed and we have installed many of them and proved to be less costly and just as reliable as the worcester is the vaillant ecotec 28 kw this boiler will run up to 10 big radiators and will usually set you back around £850.00, as for the cost of the job if it is a straight combi change we usually charge around £ 1300 (that includes the price of the boiler too) and it can be done in the day, if it is a change from a conventional system ( with header tanks in the attic) the price will be slightly higher as it usually takes around 2 days.

Always get plenty of quotes and I can guarantee that Britsh Gas will be amongst the highest and dont presume because of the reputable name that the job they do will be better, When they give you the price make sure you that you check the boiler they are going to install and get your own price from a plumbers merchants or the net to see how much they are going to add on top.

Hope this advice has helped you a bit.

Just happened to notice this and wanted to add a bit about BG. We had a 28 year old boiler replaced with a Worcester 532i by BG in April. The service we received was outstanding far above my expectations of BG who I had not planned to use. We asked three local suppliers to quote, two didn't bother to quote after visiting and promising to beat BG prices, and the third didn't present himself very well and left me doubting what I would get for my money.

BG were inside the price range I had set, £2500, and the point which swung in their favour was a full one year guarantee on the system. I felt this was important as our CH is 28 years old and I was worried adding a new boiler, running at higher pressures, could show up all sorts of problems later. I could just imagine the local supplier saying, quite rightly, he only guaranteed the boiler installation whereas BG have undertaken to resolve any issues in the entire system for the next 12 months.

My only concern with BG was the salesman wanted us to have a smaller boiler than I ordered. I felt it better to be slightly oversized rather than struggle with something that could only just do the job. BG suggested 28 Kw and I opted for 32Kw.

[unluckymorton]

Just happened to notice this and wanted to add a bit about BG. We had a 28 year old boiler replaced with a Worcester 532i by BG in April. The service we received was outstanding far above my expectations of BG who I had not planned to use. We asked three local suppliers to quote, two didn't bother to quote after visiting and promising to beat BG prices, and the third didn't present himself very well and left me doubting what I would get for my money.

BG were inside the price range I had set, £2500, and the point which swung in their favour was a full one year guarantee on the system. I felt this was important as our CH is 28 years old and I was worried adding a new boiler, running at higher pressures, could show up all sorts of problems later. I could just imagine the local supplier saying, quite rightly, he only guaranteed the boiler installation whereas BG have undertaken to resolve any issues in the entire system for the next 12 months.

My only concern with BG was the salesman wanted us to have a smaller boiler than I ordered. I felt it better to be slightly oversized rather than struggle with something that could only just do the job. BG suggested 28 Kw and I opted for 32Kw.

BG often undersize boilers, but I would not recommend installing a larger output than required as you will defeat the object of installing an energy efficient appliance. A simple way to find out the output required is to carry out heat loss calculations on the property (which I do for 90% of installs).

A 28kw combi has a heating output of 24kw, that is ample for up to a 4 bed, 2 bathroom well insulated property. However, I would recommend against a combination boiler in a property of that size due to the hot water demand.

The Worcester 532i is a boiler made only available to BG and parts for this boiler are only available through BG. The 12 month warranty is built in to your £2,500 (in fact it is £300 of that £2,500). However, £2,500 is a not a bad price for a combi conversion especially if BG have covered your FULL heating installation for 12months.

I receive many enquiries from clients who have already got a quote from BG and I find many items on the quotes that are not actually required. I have not received a quote from BG yet that can not be easily beaten by a few hundred pounds.

[Blue n White Rover]

I've recently signed up to a repair service with Corgi. It covers the boiler, radiators, plumbing and gas lines. For £11.99 a month, you can also cancel anytime you want. Also got a free boiler service for the first year.

[unluckymorton]

I've recently signed up to a repair service with Corgi. It covers the boiler, radiators, plumbing and gas lines. For £11.99 a month, you can also cancel anytime you want. Also got a free boiler service for the first year.

We offer service plans but personally I think they are a waste of money. There ins't a service plan available that covers everything within your plumbing and heating installation. Paying out £140/yr is a lot for a boiler service thats worth in the region of £45/yr is not a good deal as far as I'm concerned. I appreciate it's easy for me to say that with being in the trade but it's very rare you need to call a plumber out for major/expensive maintenance work to be carried out.

I always tell people to be very wary of service plans, they are rarely the best policy. A good friend of mine had the all singing all dancing service plan with BG, when his boiler went down BG decided that it was not possible to fix it and gave him a quote of over £3k to replace it. I did that same job on a Saturday morning before the game for less than £1k (friends & family rate).

Also, Corgi are no longer the governing body for the gas industry. 'Gas Safe' now govern gas engineers. Corgi is now a brand that is well recognized but is used to market gas related products.

[Ozz]

I spent £2.8K in January on a Valiant boiler, with remote wireless thermostatic control, and a whole load of extra features-I went for the best I could afford. One of the advantages of the system I bought was the energy efficiency of the system.

Over the first three months of this year, the coldest in yonks, my gas consumption went down 25% per month, and continues to be significantly reduced into the summer, when consumption is at it's lowest. Really pleased about it now!

GAS Consumption Graph 2010