[Archived] Blackburn Rovers Accounts 2008

[gazsimm]

Yep, Villa set a figure that would have put them in a position to replace him. Liverpool wouldn't pay it. Barry is playing extremely well and surprisingly not sulking. Nor is Rocky.

We let Bents go for peanuts.

blackburn set a figure to Spurs as well regarding Bentley i seem to remember. I know Ince did a lot of things wrong while he was at the club, but you can't blame him for the sale of Bentley. Even if Sam was at the club when Bentley was here i still think he would of been sold. The blame lies in the board room not Ince

After the match - a sit in

that will never happen have you seen our gates recently, plus an awfull lot of fans leave well before the final whistle, which annoys the hell out of me.

[thenodrog]

1. Supporters throughout the Prem keep talking about attracting investment to their club BUT who on earth thinks sinking money into the collander like coffers of a Premier League club is a good investment at the moment? It's about the worst thing to chuck money at that I can think of.

2. The Walker business portfolio is most likely feeling the recession as much as anybodies. I'm sure therefore that they have far greater priorities than BRFC at this moment.

3. Lest we forget............... The Walkers owe this town nowt anyway, rather the reverse, yet we cannot get enough supporters never mind enough willing to pay the going rate to see top football at the club. Watching their local club dining at the top table of British football is a privelige not enjoyed by many supporters. It wont last forever so we all need to make the most of it.

After the match - a sit in

1. Don't be ridiculous. Go and start something on facebook if you must.

2. It's too effin cold.

[Blackburn Ender]

Excellent, clear and consise Q&A in the LET with JW.

Puts it all into perspective, doesn't it?

We all bemoan the obscenely high players' wages and %s going to agents.

I can't in all conscience ask Rovers to help keep this going.

The TV money is a weird one. Paid to Sky by fans. And, increasingly, overseas rights sales.

Rovers' stance over RSC is probably the surest test we are in the safest possible hands.

Close on £20m would have been too tempting for most want-away owners.

We will always be vulnerable and the Trust will never invest millions in the club while transfer fees and wages are so exorbitant.

Likewise, our best chance of additional or takeover funding will come from a consortium (like at Sunderland) and maybe organised by a rich, well-connected ex player?

Still thanking the football gods we have John Williams in charge.

[den]

blackburn set a figure to Spurs as well regarding Bentley i seem to remember. I know Ince did a lot of things wrong while he was at the club, but you can't blame him for the sale of Bentley. Even if Sam was at the club when Bentley was here i still think he would of been sold. The blame lies in the board room not Ince

Evidence to back any of that up Gazsimm? Johm Williams told Ince he didn't have to sell.

[gazsimm]

Evidence to back any of that up Gazsimm? Johm Williams told Ince he didn't have to sell.

john williams told ince he didn't have to sell, your correct den, but once spurs put the right bid in what the Rovers board felt was right, he was long gone.

I am sure Ince would of loved to of kept hold of Bentley, you never know he might still be in a job now, if he did manage to keep hold of him. It's like the Santa Cruz saga, it City had put the right bid in for him in which the board felt was the right amount, he would of been sold no doubt about it.

[Paul]

Untill then any demonstrations should be put on hold.

Demostrations? About what? "Sack the Trust" Try to be a bit sensible about this. Tris makes a lot of sense in his post. The situation is clear, no one is going to buy Rovers and be better owners than the Trust. All this talk of needing an investor is a little daft, you can't invest in a football club. You can throw a lot of money away but it's tough if not impossible to make any.

There's one answer - cut the players wages or, as I've been saying for years, put them on performance related pay. I'd put a £1 to 1p 13 other PL clubs would love to do the same thing. If a few disappear elsewhere to earn more it wouldn't matter, if the big four continue to attract all the best players it would make little difference to the league. Wages need to be capped now, the only people benefitting from the TV money are the players and their agents. It must end if football is to survive in any serious form in this country.

[den]

john williams told ince he didn't have to sell, your correct den, but once spurs put the right bid in what the Rovers board felt was right, he was long gone.

The board would have only consider bids, if Ince had told JW to sell him. If PI had said he's not leaving, he wouldn't have gone. There's no evidence otherwise Gazz.

Sorry for going on again about this, but this is the one single reason why we're in the bottom three. It was such an important decision and the manager just didn't know what he was doing.

[gazsimm]

Demostrations? About what? "Sack the Trust" Try to be a bit sensible about this. Tris makes a lot of sense in his post. The situation is clear, no one is going to buy Rovers and be better owners than the Trust. All this talk of needing an investor is a little daft, you can't invest in a football club. You can throw a lot of money away but it's tough if not impossible to make any.

There's one answer - cut the players wages or, as I've been saying for years, put them on performance related pay. I'd put a £1 to 1p 13 other PL clubs would love to do the same thing. If a few disappear elsewhere to earn more it wouldn't matter, if the big four continue to attract all the best players it would make little difference to the league. Wages need to be capped now, the only people benefitting from the TV money are the players and their agents. It must end if football is to survive in any serious form in this country.

that will not happen though, and if we are to improve and progress, we will need new investment being put into the club. I am not saying demonstrate by the way as well, thats the least we need at the club at the moment.

[gazsimm]

The board would have only consider bids, if Ince had told JW to sell him. If PI had said he's not leaving, he wouldn't have gone. There's no evidence otherwise Gazz.

Sorry for going on again about this, but this is the one single reason why we're in the bottom three. It was such an important decision and the manager just didn't know what he was doing.

were is your evidence then Den about Ince tilling the board he wants to sell Bentley??? , I am sure just before Bentley was sold to Spurs that Ince came out and said he wanted David Bentley to stay at Blackburn.

I agree that is probabley why we are in the bottom 3, because of the Bentley sale, but to blame that on Ince is a bit unfair i think. I was happy when Ince got the sacked because his tatics on the field were useless, but i can't blame him for the sale of our best midfielder at the time which was Bentley.

[den]

were is your evidence then Den about Ince tilling the board he wants to sell Bentley??? , I am sure just before Bentley was sold to Spurs that Ince came out and said he wanted David Bentley to stay at Blackburn.

The only facts I read where that JW said that Hughes had told Bents that he would have to stay at Ewood for another season. I assume you accept that?

Ince took over the managers job and said he wanted Brad and Bents to stay. Bentley was then allegedly sent home from pre season because he'd been arsing around because he wanted out. Brad and Bents sold - who, in your opinion, sold them - the board?

[Blackburn Ender]

Paul

I have said the same thing in the 'Why Do We Have No Money' thread.

Because we give it all to the players in sums that bear no relation to reality.

Put it another way, if Sky charged punters more money than sense, they would have no subscribers.

So, why have clubs allowed players and their agents to dictate these obscene wages?

I asked JW this once and it's the only time I have heard him not give a sensible answer.

I doubt wage capping will ever go through. Market forces are the rules football clubs play by, so a bit of voluntary protectionism on the part of 10 to 15 likeminded clubs would do it.

Hell, if just the Lancashire clubs did it, it'd be a start!

If you cut every bog standard Premiership player's wages from £20,000 a week to £10,000 a week could he or anyone else seriously complain?

[cn174]

we will need new investment being put into the club.

From whom????

I don't know why people can't get it. There isn't a queue of very rich people outside the Blackburn End just waiting to throw money at us is there?? There isn't now and highly unlikely to be in the near future.

As for Bentley. I think you can look to the RSC episode as evidence that had we wanted to we could've resisted a bid for him. City's last bid was reportedly £18.5m (or whatever), which is a ridiculous sum of money for Roque, but because Sam didn't want to sell unless we had a replacement, we didn't sell. I'm sure that if Ince had said yes I definitely do not want Bentley to go then we'd have fought just as hard to keep him.

[den]

From whom????

I don't know why people can't get it. There isn't a queue of very rich people outside the Blackburn End just waiting to throw money at us is there?? There isn't now and highly unlikely to be in the near future.

As for Bentley. I think you can look to the RSC episode as evidence that had we wanted to we could've resisted a bid for him. City's last bid was reportedly £18.5m (or whatever), which is a ridiculous sum of money for Roque, but because Sam didn't want to sell unless we had a replacement, we didn't sell. I'm sure that if Ince had said yes I definitely do not want Bentley to go then we'd have fought just as hard to keep him.

Why can't I put things as well as you can CLare?

Anyway, finnitto, over, gone, done with, farewell.

Or, I should have said:

This topic's not pinin'! 'it's passed on! This topic is no more! It has ceased to be! 'It's expired and gone to meet it's maker! 'it's a stiff! Bereft of life, It rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed it to the perch it'd be pushing up the daisies! 'It's metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'it's off the twig! 'it's kicked the bucket, it's shuffled off it's mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-TOPIC!!

[The Prof.]

Paffle / Prof.

FACT - Without the stewardship of the JW Trust, Rovers would not have returned to the PL, won the League Cup, appointed Mark Hughes, played in Europe 4 times in recent seasons - in short been in a position where ironically the Trust now attracts criticism for a perceived lack of action.

FACT - Jack Walker wanted the club to stand on it's own two feet financially.

The amount of the annual cash injection after his passing was designed to help at a time when media revenue was a fraction of where it is now. The dramatic escalation in the media income has meant that annual sum of cash is comparitively devalued several times over. That original annual sum is approx what Man Utd or Arsenal take from each and every home game - before they even tap their Sky money!

Fans such as yourselves probably think that the investment from the Trust should have escalated in line with the rest of the inflation in the game - driven by transfer fees and wages, and those media deals.

I would suggest that to do so would be in direct contravention with their requirement to make a sucess of the whole of Jack's business empire.

Jack would not want his fortune frittered away in an environment where the richest clubs talk about #100 million transfers for a single player (or #5 million for Jimmy Bullard). A smaller sum bought the new Ewood Park, built Brockhall and won a Championship.

Therefore, it's entirely reasonable that the Trust should take a stance that - as media income has so massively exploded, and in the terms of what Jack wanted for BRFC - trickling an extra #3 million into players and agents pockets every year is not what they should be doing at this moment.

For impatient fans, it's far too easy to take the short term view that several million quid should have been unearthed last month to beef up the squad. The money men didn't agree. It's their job to safeguard Jack's money.

That doesn't mean they are useless to BRFC. Far from it. There is no better owner out there for the club at this moment, and there probably never will be one where the security of the club is so assured in the long term.

Well some things are nearly facts.

1. Jack Walker was alive at the beginning of the season we decided to retain what was a premiership squad. He died in August. JW would just have done as he was told. The trust would have made few decisions on keeping the squad together that year and JW has said so.

2. Correct but as revenue has increased squad wages have outstripped them.

I think there are a million worse owners than the trust out there.

The club is not assured in the long term as we have know it since about 1992. Thats the current argument.

I don't think it's unreasonable to pressure the moneymen to keep us in the Premier League. It's what Jack Walker would have wanted. To ingnore this is apathy not impatience. See Newcastle for impatience.

So what is it we pay too much or we don't pay enough? I thought you were supposed to debate with other members not yourself?

Eh?

[philipl]

Paul Ince initially said he wasn't selling Bentley and JW backed him up.

He then caved in at the first petulance from Bentley.

Player 1 Manager 0.

[allanncd]

I seem to be taking some flak for pointing out the "greed" of the Trustees. I do not apologise for this and as someone who values shares and businesses professionally for a decent living - including facing down valuers at HMRC- I am not the worst qualified on this MB to pass comment on the Trustees apparent valuation of the Club (remember Danny Williams comments or is there some amnesia on this subject?). I have not yet seen the latest accounts but JW has admitted in his LET interview that the Club cannot make an operating profit. So why did the Trustees put a £40m+ price tag on the Club (of course they'd settle for much less right now but that's not the point). The answer is they were trying to recover the funds previously written off since they took over. In other words over nearly 10 years they would have given the Club NOTHING. They have given NOTHING in the January window despite the crying need for a midfield, Of course perhaps they have nothing to give. Even Ryanair recently reported a loss so heaven knows how Flybe (regarded as a basket case by Michael O'Leary) are faring. If the funds are not there then fair play to Trustees .

[PAFELL]

Demostrations? About what? "Sack the Trust" Try to be a bit sensible about this. Tris makes a lot of sense in his post. The situation is clear, no one is going to buy Rovers and be better owners than the Trust. All this talk of needing an investor is a little daft, you can't invest in a football club. You can throw a lot of money away but it's tough if not impossible to make any.

There's one answer - cut the players wages or, as I've been saying for years, put them on performance related pay. I'd put a £1 to 1p 13 other PL clubs would love to do the same thing. If a few disappear elsewhere to earn more it wouldn't matter, if the big four continue to attract all the best players it would make little difference to the league. Wages need to be capped now, the only people benefitting from the TV money are the players and their agents. It must end if football is to survive in any serious form in this country.

You have raised a good point about wages. Also the time to speak out about this is now during a credit crunch. Is it gordon Taylor (ex- rovers I believe) who runs the players union or whatever it is. He is the one that should be contacted as he speaks up for the players. But in my view unless wages for footballers are not cut drastically then football clubs will become scarce. Is there any diference in the wages for players and the bonuses being paid to these people running our banks?

[stuwilky]

In the last published accounts flybe reported a profit of £35m.

£20m up on the previous year.

We know little about what the trustees would actually accept for the club, all we know is what some fly be night "bidder" said, Im sure it depends on who is proposing to purchase it - and as it isnt me Ive not had the conversation.

[Tris]

remember Danny Williams comments or is there some amnesia on this subject?

Bringing that name up is a remarkable ploy from someone who has been so negative about the recent input of the JW Trust.

If Daniel Williams had got hold of the club (with his rag-taggle band of property price surfing US "financiers") can you imagine where BRFC would be now in this climate???

Dead and buried - that's where. Who gives a flying **** what Daniel Williams had to say about the value of the club?

How do we know that in fact his (DW's) offer to buy the club didn't actually tick every box Jack Walker might have set in real financial terms 8 years earlier?

But maybe the Trustees saw that selling to a cowboy was not in the club's best interests, so sent Williams back to New Jersey? In doing so - they probably saved the club.

If you're using Danny Williams' comments to back up your stance, amnesia would have been better. Has he been seen at Ewood ever since?? I thought he was a supporter.

[Craigman]

I wonder if there will be any new interest in Blackburn Rovers as the new deal for the Premier League TV deal has been announced. I suppose this would depend on whether we can stay in the league or not. There would be no sign of a takeover then until next season at the earliest.

Is there any news Nicko ?

[philipl]

This £40m valuation (if it were ever quoted which I seriously doubt) only existed to frighten some guys off who would have bankrupted the club by now had they acquired it given the current economic circumstances.

Dan Williams was never a serious option, neither was Chris Ronnie.

Has Dan Williams built those houses or bought any of those clubs in the States,

Does Chris Ronnie actually own any shares (hint in turns out the Icelanders have them) and is JJB doing well at the moment?

alanncd you are showing extreme gullibility.

[jim mk2]

.

For impatient fans, it's far too easy to take the short term view that several million quid should have been unearthed last month to beef up the squad. The money men didn't agree. It's their job to safeguard Jack's money.

Nothing to do with impatient fans with a "short-term view", just genuine supporters who love the club who are sickened by the prospect of relegation.

Everyone knows the squad is in desperate need of reinforcements and if the "money men" truly cared about Jack Walker's legacy they wouldn't be dragging his beloved football club to its knees. He would probably say they aren't doing their job properly.

.

That doesn't mean they are useless to BRFC. Far from it. There is no better owner out there for the club at this moment, and there probably never will be one where the security of the club is so assured in the long term.

Eh ? How can the security of the club be "so assured in the long term" when the owners have been looking to sell for the past 6 months and more ?

Your slavish devotion to the Rovers management / owners is touching but makes you look rather silly quite frankly.

[Hughesy]

Phil any chance you can do us a summary of the accounts? Im in Snowy Austria and cant be bothered reading through everything.

[CAPT KAYOS]

just genuine supporters who love the club who are sickened by the prospect of relegation.

Quick question Jim -why are you ( or anybody else) sickened by the prospect of relegation?

If it happens so be it , que sera , que sera etc

We have been down before - no reason why we couldn't come back up as until it happens anything is hypothetical - yes there maybe example of clubs not doing so - but how well where these clubs run in the first place?

As I have said before - do we really want the club hanging itself by its own noose to try and compete for something we are unlikely to have a sniff about getting close to winning, nevermind winning it outright. For me the P/L is not the be all and end all.

As somebody has posted before - what is the point of spending and getting into more debt

There needs to be a control on wages - a salary cap may not be realised - but as Rev posts -a structure of performance pay + bonus with wages brought more into reality would be a starter.

[tony gale's mic]

Quick question Jim -why are you ( or anybody else) sickened by the prospect of relegation?

If it happens so be it , que sera , que sera etc

We have been down before - no reason why we couldn't come back up as until it happens anything is hypothetical - yes there maybe example of clubs not doing so - but how well where these clubs run in the first place?

To be fair this bit isn't true...there are several reasons why we may well struggle to come back up. There's several clubs in the Championship who would have bigger fanbases and/or more spending power than us. Also the quality of players we've been producing from the academy has been exceptionally poor, IMO if we hadn't produced Duff and Dunn last time we'd still be down there now.