[Archived] Blackburn Rovers Accounts 2008

[philipl]

Permit me a moment's dreaming but all three players (Zidane, Dugarry and Baggio R) were offered to Rovers on a first refusal basis as we we were the Premier League's sole Champions League representatives. Bobby Baggio's agent was even interviewed on BBC Radio 5 virtually begging Rovers to sign him.

Had we bought them then Kenny would not have retired, we would certainly retained the Premier League title and I wouldn't have bet against us winning the Champions League as well.

I will never forget being at the Legia Warsaw game and our subs bench being read out (seven allowed even in those days) and thinking I had hardly ever heard of four of the youngsters we had sitting there- that for me really rammed home the foolishness of not buying that summer. If only Shearer had beaten their keeper from two yards in the 90th minute.....

If only

If only....

[ABBEY]

and then in true rovers fashion...matty holmes,mind you hes better than andrews lol

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Had we bought them then Kenny would not have retired, we would certainly retained the Premier League title and I wouldn't have bet against us winning the Champions League as well.

Sobering stuff philip and it only rams home how desperate our present and future position is right now some 14 years on.

[PAFELL]

In cash terms it is pretty even between the two.

Everyone forgets that Jack undertook a dis-investment through sales of players over a two season period in the late '90s.

Shearer £15m, Sutton £10m, Batty, LeSaux and Berg £5m each and so on.

It is churlish to say this but that lead to spending of about £30m on players who were absolutely rank and £50m losses through two seasons outside the Premier League.

I still look back on Jack not buying Zidane, Dugarry and Roberto Baggio for a combined £15m in the summer we were Champions and then Sven turning us down as being decisions that eventually cost the Walkers- and Rovers of course- £50m net at the very least. Of course hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I heard Zola was offered to Rovers also and the then manager said that he didn't need Zola!!!!!

[philipl]

Sobering stuff philip and it only rams home how desperate our present and future position is right now some 14 years on.

Fourteen years after the 1960 Cup Final, we were in the third division going nowhere except having managers pinched and flogging off Ken Knighton to Hull City for £60,000 to stave off going bust.

This season is enormously disappointing but after a finally shooting a suicide note manager, we went ten games undefeated, are back in touch with getting to safety, made it to the last 8 in the League Cup and have a decent shot at a home quarter final in the FA Cup.

That's another perspective.

[Exiled in Toronto]

So the £133m is topped up by an additional £45m of annual donations from the Jack Walker and the Walker Trust which further offset losses- in other words, cumulative losses in the Rovers books which currently stand at £111m would have been £156m but for those £3m donations each year.

Yes the £133m is after all acquisitions and sales.

All very interesting but I'm not sure as to the relevance today when we are living in a completely different world. The entire Jack/Trust investment over nearly 20 years equates to 3 or 4 years of Sky money and, of course, the Trust money has been turned off for a couple of years now.

It was Jack's money and that's what he wanted to do with it, and of course it could not go on forever, but I find it hard to believe that Jack would have approved of the current exit strategy of the Trust. We should have been sold when the going was good. All our peer clubs have an owner who still tips money in, e.g. Bolton, Wigan, Fulham, so I'm sure one could have been found with a bit of forward planning.

Another thing I don't understand is that we have had all that money from Jack/Trust, plus probably as much again from Sky since '92, all extra to what the likes of Burnley and Preston have had. Yet we are apparently only one bad manager for 6 months who made a couple of questionable transfers away from being just like them if not worse. How could we have had about a third of a billion pounds extra and not be permanently better than them?

It sickens me that this year we will have our highest pay bill ever, and by some distance, and yet have a largely ageing squad, half of whom would not be near a start in any of our peer clubs.

[OscarRaven]

It sickens me that this year we will have our highest pay bill ever, and by some distance, and yet have a largely ageing squad, half of whom would not be near a start in any of our peer clubs.

Mark Hughes is responsible for that, new deals here there and everywhere was his primary man management tool.

[philipl]

There is some pretty mindless stuff being posted here.

Squad ages:

Robinson 27

Brown 24

Bunn 21

Simpson 22

Ooijer 34

Nelsen 30

Samba 24

Zura 27

Givet 27

Warnock 27

Olsson 22

Mokoena 28

Tugay 38

Dunn 28

MGP 27

Emerton 29

Grella 28

Villanueva 21

Treacy 21

Diouf 28

Andrews 27

Reid 27

Santa Cruz 27

McCarthy 31

Roberts 31

Yes they are ageing in the sense of we are all getting older every day. But that probably profiles as close to an ideally aged squad as you can have in the Premier League. 16 players are in the 27-31 age group which is the time at which they should be in their absolute prime.

As for Sparky giving new contracts, we are not being Bosmanned, and when we were 7th last season nobody was moaning that we were extending contracts.

The griping and groaning is reaching infantile levels now.

[Exiled in Toronto]

16 players are in the 27-31 age group which is the time at which they should be in their absolute prime.

As for Sparky giving new contracts, we are not being Bosmanned, and when we were 7th last season nobody was moaning that we were extending contracts.

Ah, but they are not in their prime apart from RSC and maybe Warnock, although he has been personally responsible for about 10 goals this season..

Nelsen, Bert, Reid, Dunny, Zurab, Benni, Roberts, MGP, Axe, Grella, Andrews, Robinson - who of these is even saleable for more than buttons yet they are all earning more than ever! Bosman? I wish!

The wholesale salary inflation to players who have been playing poorly for 18 months now will cripple us. Remember when Souness left us with a load of overpaid dollopers we couldn't get off the books because of their salaries? If we manage to stay up, how many of these 'in their prime' players will be better next season or attracting bids?

[Hughesy]

Ah, but they are not in their prime apart from RSC and maybe Warnock, although he has been personally responsible for about 10 goals this season..

Nelsen, Bert, Reid, Dunny, Zurab, Benni, Roberts, MGP, Axe, Grella, Andrews, Robinson - who of these is even saleable for more than buttons yet they are all earning more than ever! Bosman? I wish!

Nelsen would still fetch a fair sum if we were to sell.

Benni we received a £7m offer for only 6 months ago.

Robinson would still also fetch a good figure if we were to sell

[Amo]

And the sooner Ince gets back into management, the sooner we'll get a pretty penny for Andrews!

[joey_big_nose]

The wholesale salary inflation to players who have been playing poorly for 18 months now will cripple us. Remember when Souness left us with a load of overpaid dollopers we couldn't get off the books because of their salaries? If we manage to stay up, how many of these 'in their prime' players will be better next season or attracting bids?

I am not sure you can blame anyone at Rovers for that. Wages have spiralled and it is ridiculous, but it is not as if we have been paying over the odds. Everyone is spending a daft amount of money which has forced it up, we have to match the going rate. CL clubs have paid a daft amount for ages, but the wage spending mania at Portsmouth, West Ham, Man City and Sunderland has moved it to a different level across the league.

Is our wage bill in real terms any higher than most? I severely doubt it. I imagine we are a little ahead of the promoted teams (but then Hull are paying Bullard 50k a week, and Etherington and Beattie won't be on a pittance), Fulham and Wigan seem strict on wages. However Sunderland, Boro, West Ham, Portsmouth, Everton, Man City, Newcastle, Spurs, Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man Utd, Villa all utterly blow us out of the water in terms of the contracts they offer.

This is a problem for us.

Main way we can slim down is selling fringe players but high earners like Mokoena, Vogel, Zurab, Reid (but he is injured...) and Ooijer. Even then it won't make much of a dent.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Is our wage bill in real terms any higher than most? I severely doubt it. I imagine we are a little ahead of the promoted teams (but then Hull are paying Bullard 50k a week, and Etherington and Beattie won't be on a pittance), Fulham and Wigan seem strict on wages. However Sunderland, Boro, West Ham, Portsmouth, Everton, Man City, Newcastle, Spurs, Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man Utd, Villa all utterly blow us out of the water in terms of the contracts they offer.

This is a problem for us.

The problem for rovers is that the wage bill is a too high % to turnover for it to be sustainable.

[CAPT KAYOS]

Fourteen years after the 1960 Cup Final, we were in the third division going nowhere except having managers pinched and flogging off Ken Knighton to Hull City for £60,000 to stave off going bust.

This season is enormously disappointing but after a finally shooting a suicide note manager, we went ten games undefeated, are back in touch with getting to safety, made it to the last 8 in the League Cup and have a decent shot at a home quarter final in the FA Cup.

That's another perspective.

It is indeed philipl - but you wouldn't think it with the attitude and comments coming from the club and some fans re the FA Cup this season.

Relegation is all hypothetical at the moment - it might not look hopeful but we are still a Premier league side at the moment and its upto the team and manager that they remain so.

This is what makes the likes of myself, Abbey etc annoyed - the FA Cup is one of the majors honuors in the domestic game and should not be sniffed at ( I don't care if other clubs want to) if the club where so worried about relegation then it was quite obvious something needed to be done in the January window regardless.

To me it appears that alot of people have forgot about the Millenium Final - and that is what the game is about. Its ironic that so many people complain about how boring and stagnant the P/L is, yet still want to be part of it as a religion.

[LeftWinger]

Permit me a moment's dreaming but all three players (Zidane, Dugarry and Baggio R) were offered to Rovers on a first refusal basis as we we were the Premier League's sole Champions League representatives. Bobby Baggio's agent was even interviewed on BBC Radio 5 virtually begging Rovers to sign him.

Had we bought them then Kenny would not have retired, we would certainly retained the Premier League title and I wouldn't have bet against us winning the Champions League as well.

I will never forget being at the Legia Warsaw game and our subs bench being read out (seven allowed even in those days) and thinking I had hardly ever heard of four of the youngsters we had sitting there- that for me really rammed home the foolishness of not buying that summer. If only Shearer had beaten their keeper from two yards in the 90th minute.....

If only

If only....

It is an interesting thought - but with regards to winning the Champions League - couldn't you only select three non-English players in the squad? I seem to remember Colin Hendy counting as a foriegner, but I might be wrong.

[BrianPotter]

The problem for rovers is that the wage bill is a too high % to turnover for it to be sustainable.

Thats right, exactly what I'd said earlier. The problem for rovers in the transfer market isnt't just raising the funds to pay the fee its the fact that there is absolutley no "headroom" on the current wage bill to accomodate big name players who will obviously come with a big wage demand.

Look at it this way, rovers come across an opportunity to sign a big name player, the board goes to the trust and asks for funding for this transfer (as per the situation when Andy Cole became available), the trust provides the fee by the way of an interest free loan, we agree personal terms and the deal is done.

Fine a few years ago.

Now, the same situation arises, the same method is followed, only this time the trustees will turn around and say if we provide the funding for the fee, where is the money coming from to pay the players wages, we are already way over our wages to turnover ratio. Either you create some headroom on the wage bill or increase revenue to accomodate the new signing or the answer is no. Simple business decision and although far from glamorous it is helping to safeguard the financial stabilitiy of the club. Paying players with money we dont have will only end in disaster, we're already doing this to a certain extent as it is, only that our controlling entity are underwriting the losses.

[Sysagent]

I know, looking at the above figures in the cold light of day it just makes you wonder what peoples expectations are. Any business minded person reading the above figures would be horrified.

Yes my sentiments exactly.

[OscarRaven]

Either you create some headroom on the wage bill or increase revenue to accomodate the new signing or the answer is no. Simple business decision and although far from glamorous it is helping to safeguard the financial stabilitiy of the club. Paying players with money we dont have will only end in disaster, we're already doing this to a certain extent as it is, only that our controlling entity are underwriting the losses.

Sums it up perfectly.

We can no longer compete economically whilst the league is managed unsustainably (oligarchs and sheiks playthings), but we can not complain after all Jack Walker was the man who started the trend, I didn't see anyone worrying about the little fish then?

Why don't we have money for transfers? - because players have it all.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

I heard Zola was offered to Rovers also and the then manager said that he didn't need Zola!!!!!

It is also widely reported that Harford enquired about Ronaldo (following Shearers move to Newcastle) only to find out that PSV had already agreed a deal with Barcelona.

Though in many ways Rovers have been lucky to have a benefactor like Jack - there have also been numerous periods of bad luck with injuries etc. I often look back and wonder how good Paul Warhurst could have been in centre midfield if he had stayed injury free - IMO he would have become a lynchpin of Rovers and Englands side for many years.

Oh what could have been

[Hughesy]

The summer will be interesting because its a chance to lower our wage bill if we act sensibly, and replace players in the right way (Wages are just based on assumptions but based on the fact of me knowing gally's wage).

Leaving for free: Mokoena & Ooijer (£50k in wages)

Sell: RSC (£65K) + £15m cash

Should be allowed to leave: Vogel (£20k), Brown (£15k) £1m cash, Derbyshire (£25k) £2.5m cash, Gallagher (£20k) £1m cash, Rigters (£10k) - £90k in wages)

Loanees: Simpson, Villanueva, Givet - At least £55k in wages

Total wages there: £260k per week = £13.5m a year saved in wages

+ £19.5m received in fees

Now obviously that could leave us abit thin, but I think the last 5 all dont currently play for us anyway so lets get rid and replace with better quality. The two players out of contract are going anyway and Roque wants out. That just leaves us with decisions to make on our loan players. Personally id be happy if we signed Villanueva & Givet for £3m each, no more. Simpson should go home.

Players we could maybe move on: Reid £30k, Tugay £k? (legs gone?).

So if we moved all the above on + maybe reid - it would save us over £15m in wages. Obviously we would need to replace some players, but not all, and nobody will be on the 65k RSC is receiving. We need to look at young talent that has a good length of playing time left, which we can make money on.

We could even shift Warnock on, if we have Givet & Ollson as replacements for him. And probably recieve a £5m fee.

No doubt il now get some earache for this post

[thenodrog]

The summer will be interesting because its a chance to lower our wage bill if we act sensibly, and replace players in the right way (Wages are just based on assumptions but based on the fact of me knowing gally's wage).

Leaving for free: Mokoena & Ooijer (£50k in wages)

Sell: RSC (£65K) + £15m cash

Should be allowed to leave: Vogel (£20k), Brown (£15k) £1m cash, Derbyshire (£25k) £2.5m cash, Gallagher (£20k) £1m cash, Rigters (£10k) - £90k in wages)

Loanees: Simpson, Villanueva, Givet - At least £55k in wages

Total wages there: £260k per week = £13.5m a year saved in wages

+ £19.5m received in fees

Now obviously that could leave us abit thin, but I think the last 5 all dont currently play for us anyway so lets get rid and replace with better quality. The two players out of contract are going anyway and Roque wants out. That just leaves us with decisions to make on our loan players. Personally id be happy if we signed Villanueva & Givet for £3m each, no more. Simpson should go home.

Players we could maybe move on: Reid £30k, Tugay £k? (legs gone?).

So if we moved all the above on + maybe reid - it would save us over £15m in wages. Obviously we would need to replace some players, but not all, and nobody will be on the 65k RSC is receiving. We need to look at young talent that has a good length of playing time left, which we can make money on.

We could even shift Warnock on, if we have Givet & Ollson as replacements for him. And probably recieve a £5m fee.

No doubt il now get some earache for this post

Not from me H ............

http://www.brfcs.co.uk/mb/index.php?s=&amp...st&p=734056

[dingles staying down 4ever]

The summer will be interesting because its a chance to lower our wage bill if we act sensibly, and replace players in the right way (Wages are just based on assumptions but based on the fact of me knowing gally's wage).

Leaving for free: Mokoena & Ooijer (£50k in wages)

Sell: RSC (£65K) + £15m cash

Should be allowed to leave: Vogel (£20k), Brown (£15k) £1m cash, Derbyshire (£25k) £2.5m cash, Gallagher (£20k) £1m cash, Rigters (£10k) - £90k in wages)

Loanees: Simpson, Villanueva, Givet - At least £55k in wages

Total wages there: £260k per week = £13.5m a year saved in wages

+ £19.5m received in fees

Now obviously that could leave us abit thin, but I think the last 5 all dont currently play for us anyway so lets get rid and replace with better quality. The two players out of contract are going anyway and Roque wants out. That just leaves us with decisions to make on our loan players. Personally id be happy if we signed Villanueva & Givet for £3m each, no more. Simpson should go home.

Players we could maybe move on: Reid £30k, Tugay £k? (legs gone?).

So if we moved all the above on + maybe reid - it would save us over £15m in wages. Obviously we would need to replace some players, but not all, and nobody will be on the 65k RSC is receiving. We need to look at young talent that has a good length of playing time left, which we can make money on.

We could even shift Warnock on, if we have Givet & Ollson as replacements for him. And probably recieve a £5m fee.

No doubt il now get some earache for this post

Agree wholeheartedly except for two minor points:-

i. Vogel will have 12 months left on his contract won't he? I seem to remember he signed a 3 year deal. Not 100% sure though.

ii. If we get relegated then I'd keep either Gally or Derbs as both have Championship experience. Anyway with all the rats wanting to leave the sinking ship vast amounts of savings would be made.

As for Thenodrog's idea for Performance Realted Pay is fine in theory but very rare that players will agree. Only types like Robbie Fowler would.

[BrianPotter]

Though in many ways Rovers have been lucky to have a benefactor like Jack - there have also been numerous periods of bad luck with injuries etc. I often look back and wonder how good Paul Warhurst could have been in centre midfield if he had stayed injury free - IMO he would have become a lynchpin of Rovers and Englands side for many years.

Oh what could have been

Agree with that, we certainly aren't at the top of the league when it comes to luck. You could even attribute part of the problem this season to bad luck - are the chances we are creating and not taking down to poor finishing, or that the ball just isnt running for us. Considering a couple of Roberts misses recently I think we'd have say it was a combination of both on that front.

Agree with you about Warhurst too, I always thought he showed some signs of real class in his play - a real shame he couldnt stay fit.

[duggers]

I'm starting to get quite disillusionned with it all really. Football really is all about money nowadays. We've got to be grateful for the fact that Jack has put in £170m (or whatever the figure is) but we really can't expect him to carry on putting money into the club for ever and ever.

It's probably unlikely we'll see much success (bar the odd cup run) without someone who wants to chuck tens of millions of pounds a year at a club with no supporters. And even then we'd lose a bit of our soul in becoming a millionaires plaything

Surely the best we can hope for is that the club continues to be reasonably well run and solvent, we might emulate Bolton who had some fairly high finishes under Big Sam. Alternatively we might get relegated, in which case at least we wouldn't be going into every season dreaming of finishing around 8th.

Worst Case Scenario - we decide to speculate, spend more cash on players and wages, go into administration and end up like Luton Town

I say, be frugal.

[thenodrog]

As for Thenodrog's idea for Performance Realted Pay is fine in theory but very rare that players will agree. Only types like Robbie Fowler would.

Anybody that cannot get a better offer will agree. With more clubs cutting their cloth according to their coats as the recession deepens I feel that most of those I named will find themselves in that position.