[Archived] The Midfield Problem

[Hughesy]

If Fit our first choice midfield has to be

Diouf ---- Dunn ----Grella ----Pedersen

I do however wonder if it would be worth us adopting a 3-5-2 to get us out of trouble?

3 central defenders (Givet, Nelsen & Samba)

1 defensive midfielder (Grella)

Then 4 in midfield (Diouf, Dunn, Tugay/ Warnock,Pedersen)

[LeChuck]

Don't think that'll ever happen Hughesy, no-one in the league plays a 3-5-2 on a regular basis and there's a very good reason for that.

Take out one of the strikers and put in Ooijer at right back (Givet moves to left back) and that might be what we'll play eventually though.

[American]

Didn't Harry try it with mixed results with Pompey? First match it was brilliant and then it was exposed heavily against City, if memory serves.

[The Prof.]

In an idle moment, I went onto the BBC Sport website and looked at the stats of our midfield in the premier league this season, and was stunned.

So far, in a mere 24 games, we have played as starters or subs 11 players: 4 signed by Souness (Emerton, Tugay, Reid, MGP), 3 by Hughes (Vogel, the Axe and Dunny), 3 by Ince (Andrews, Carlos, Grella) and one from the Academy (Treacy) Of course, it could be argued that Dunny belongs in the Academy.

First point that strikes me: 11 is far too many, showing we have a bunch of injury-prone or useless to$$ers.

Second point: Souness left over 4 years ago and I would argue his midfield legacy is by far the best of a bad bunch. All St Mark left of any value at all was Bentley who almost certainly would have gone and has been crap this season anyway. Savage and Dunny were good but neither was a building block. Yes, Ince had money but so did Hughes and Souness. All have failed us in this area. Diouff, who I hate, will be by far our best midfielder, which says a lot.

Third point: One academy midfielder in effectively 8 years and he's not very good.

Fourth point: those 11 players have made a combined 140 appearances including as subs and scored, wait for it, three league goals between them. THREE! Oh, and none of them can defend very well either.

This is why we are in danger and why, whether we go down or stay up, we will have to start again, unlike last time when we had Dunn, Duff and Flitty to power us back up.

I hope we can still get double figures for RSC in the summer 'cos we're sure as hell going to need every penny to retool the worst midfield I can ever remember.

All these points are right and I only wonder why this wasn't addressed in summer when it was apparent we were struggling - or January.

This and the Goalkeeper (how many points has he saved us this season?) will probably send us down.

[John]

I only wonder why this wasn't addressed in summer when it was apparent we were struggling - or January.

You are not the only one.....

[AggyBlue]

the Goalkeeper (how many points has he saved us this season?)

As he's made saves in each game he's started, I reckon about 20.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

It OK because by summer, Sam will have us playing with no midfield, if the last two games are anything to go by

[Hughesy]

He's simply making do with the best we have got. Not his fault the previous regimes have left a poor midfield.

He has made his 1st move by bringing in Diouf. Im sure he will make 1 or 2 more in summer once he has had time to assess the likes of Vogel, Mokoena, Andrews, Reid and maybe Grella. Dont forget the problem is cash - we can only really make a signing once we have sold 1.

[thenodrog]

If Fit our first choice midfield has to be

Diouf ---- Dunn ----Grella ----Pedersen

I do however wonder if it would be worth us adopting a 3-5-2 to get us out of trouble?

3 central defenders (Givet, Nelsen & Samba)

1 defensive midfielder (Grella)

Then 4 in midfield (Diouf, Dunn, Tugay/ Warnock,Pedersen)

3-5-2? We'd be hammered by most of the better teams and a few of the others too. To alternate from 4-4-2 as you suggest it has to be 4-5-1 or possibly even a 4-4-1-1 with santa Cruz holding the ball up and laying it off for his attacking midfield partner which would likely be Dunny or Spit and at an absolute pinch Villanueva. the midfield 4 injuries permitting would then be Spit/Dunny-Grella-Warnock-Pederson. Our problem imo with RSC, Roberts and Benny is that they are all 'proper' front men and none of them can adapt well to a deeper role. To keep 2 of them on the bench at the start might not rest easy with the supporters though and they'd quickly fall back on using the old Allardyce stereotype criticisms.

I think it is obvious to all by now that our two most talented strikers (and they both really are top quality) do not play well together. As with like the Gerrard / Lampard and Owen / Rooney prob with England, the manager might have to be ruthless, stick to his instincts and ignore popular opinion.

[incecticide]

All these points are right and I only wonder why this wasn't addressed in summer when it was apparent we were struggling - or January.

Summer - Ince decided Grella and Andrews were the answer

January - Money.

[Hughesy]

Benni can play abit deeper, the problem is that RSC doesnt seem to gel too well with Benni and also seems in a sulk.

Roberts isnt good enough to be the front man with Benni behind.

[John]

I don't think Santa and Benni work that well together. Plus they don't work hard enough for a team in our position and with our lack of quality.

If I was Sam, I would seriously consider going 4-5-1 for certain matches.

However, now is not the time to start changing things too drastically formation wise.

[T4E]

Why oh why didn't we make a move for him?

I dont want to make you feel any worse, but Pedro Mendes is the closest thing to Tugay I've seen that would have been affordable and obtainable.

If he left Rangers I'd love it to be to Rovers.

[OJRovers]

On the midfield problem:

As someone has said above, ideally we would play Dunn--Grella, but this hasn't been possible a lot of the time. so...

I wasn't too impressed with Vogel last year when he played a few games, yes he is a tidy player but seemed to add nothing going forward.

Having been in the 'give Andrews a chance' camp, I now think that Vogel would do a much better job in the middle than Andrews. He disrupts the whole shape of the midfield by being miles away from play. If we are paying Vogels wages then I say pick him ahead of Andrews.

[BiggusLaddus]

Benni can play abit deeper, the problem is that RSC doesnt seem to gel too well with Benni and also seems in a sulk.

Roberts isnt good enough to be the front man with Benni behind.

But if he does then he might as well not play. Benni is very sharp in and around the box, but is just too lazy to be dropping deep to set play up. As unreliable as Roberts is in front of goal, I think he has to play as he (apart from maybe Douif now) is the only attacking player we have who is quick enough to get in behind defences.

The time to strengthen our midfield was last January when Savage was sold. We should have been scouring the earth for a replacement as soonas it became obvious that he would not get back to his pre-injury form (about 12 games in).

[Mc Love]

Benni and Roberts actually look a lot happier together as well, when on the pitch of course

[Amo]

On the midfield problem:

As someone has said above, ideally we would play Dunn--Grella, but this hasn't been possible a lot of the time. so...

I wasn't too impressed with Vogel last year when he played a few games, yes he is a tidy player but seemed to add nothing going forward.

Having been in the 'give Andrews a chance' camp, I now think that Vogel would do a much better job in the middle than Andrews. He disrupts the whole shape of the midfield by being miles away from play. If we are paying Vogels wages then I say pick him ahead of Andrews.

Impossible! Vogel has obviously driven over John Williams' cat.

[Exiled in Toronto]

I'm sorry, but all this 4-5-1, play Vogel, rely on Dunny/Grella to be ever present for the rest of the season is just rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. None of those will give us a midfield that is good enough to match those of clubs such as Wigan, Bolton or even the Baggies. We have better forwards than other relegation clubs, probably as good a defense, but not a midfield.

I think we are relying on the BFS signature themes of Fat Robbo's huge punts, MGP's long throw-ins and sending Samba upfront whenever possible. even if it keep us up, we still need a new midfield, Spit excepted.

[John]

We have better forwards than other relegation clubs, probably as good a defense, but not a midfield..

Have been thinking exactly the same recently. If our midfield was not so shyte and injury prone, I would be feeling much more comfortable about things.

[Majiball]

Personally I'd lose a midfielder.

-------------Grella-------------

-----Dunn----------MGP-------

-Diouf------Santa--------Benni

I've long said MGP should be moved in side, I think he suits the role, far better than warnock. Mgp will cover benni's lazy bouts and he easily has the industry for the role. 3 up really makes the opposition think and at least we'll have two chasing the knock downs from our long balls.

All our quality is up front, lets get it on the pitch.

[patrickvalery]

Personally I'd lose a midfielder.

-------------Grella-------------

-----Dunn----------MGP-------

-Diouf------Santa--------Benni

I've long said MGP should be moved in side, I think he suits the role, far better than warnock. Mgp will cover benni's lazy bouts and he easily has the industry for the role. 3 up really makes the opposition think and at least we'll have two chasing the knock downs from our long balls.

All our quality is up front, lets get it on the pitch.

Thats too big a risk for me.

I'm not sure Grella has the legs to cover what would be 5 attack mided players in front of him.

Also don't think MGP has quick enough feet or mind to play inside.

[John]

Personally I'd lose a midfielder.

-------------Grella-------------

-----Dunn----------MGP-------

-Diouf------Santa--------Benni

I've long said MGP should be moved in side, I think he suits the role, far better than warnock. Mgp will cover benni's lazy bouts and he easily has the industry for the role. 3 up really makes the opposition think and at least we'll have two chasing the knock downs from our long balls.

I see what you are thinking but defensively it would be too risky. Plus, Diouf can be inconsistent with regards to his work rate, along with Benni. Plus the fact we don't know when Dunny (or Grella) will break down with injury, so unlikely we could even try this formation out!

On injuries/fitness, it is not about being doom and gloom for the sake of it, how many consecutive games have Dunn/Grella played this season?

[thenodrog]

Personally I'd lose a midfielder.

-------------Grella-------------

-----Dunn----------MGP-------

-Diouf------Santa--------Benni

I've long said MGP should be moved in side, I think he suits the role, far better than warnock. Mgp will cover benni's lazy bouts and he easily has the industry for the role. 3 up really makes the opposition think and at least we'll have two chasing the knock downs from our long balls.

All our quality is up front, lets get it on the pitch.

I see where you are coming from I think but imo that would represent the type of gamble that should really be tried out on a pre-season tour rather than a relegation run-in.

[John]

Surprise, surprise, Grella has a groin injury. Scan on it today.

[roversmum]

I was going to pass a comment but better not