[Archived] Manchester United Preview

[The Prof.]

I'd never boo any of our players, ever.

I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy of a seemingly large portion of our home support when it comes to Keith Andrews.

No I'm sure you wouldn't but ome do.

(I'm not doing very well at making myself sould clear at all today am I?)

[incecticide]

Nothing to do with it being at Old Trafford against Manchester United then, Incecticide? That never plays a part in any referee's decisions there?

You're absolutely right mate, I'm not denying that contributed, probably quite a lot. My post is just more of a stock response to the over-simplified view that every time a player goes down in the box it should either be a penalty or a booking for diving, anyone who's played the game knows it just isn't that simple.

He does more defending than most of our defenders.

I think it was the opta stats that showed he covers more ground than any other Rovers player, the guy works hard. Doesn't score enough goals from that position for me but contributes a lot of assists.

But then, these are stats we're talking about...

[LeftWinger]

Anyone seen Garth Crooks team of the week on the BBC?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/s...bci/7631245.stm

Not a single Rovers player in the shortlists, and Evra, Rooney and Ronaldo all make the starting eleven!

[incecticide]

Anyone seen Garth Crooks team of the week on the BBC?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/s...bci/7631245.stm

Not a single Rovers player in the shortlists, and Evra, Rooney and Ronaldo all make the starting eleven!

That's because Garth Crooks is an arse. I love watching him though, especially on score when he says something controversial, then folds his hands together, looks down at his feet and (I swear) giggles to himself while everyone else argues the point.

Really is a case of light the blue touch paper and stand well back with Crooks!

[Exiled_Rover]

Pederson.

He stopped being a flair player when we found out we were short at full back.

When he came he quickly became our main attacking threat both in the air and on the ground. Centring crosses for a small, aging Paul Dickov was not not going to get many teams worried was it.

As Hughes brought in class strikers - Bellamy, McCarthy, Santa Cruz (anyone think how lucky we've been to get these up front?) his role changed. His brief under Hughes and Allardyce for the last few seasons has been to cover the full backs first and then to attack.

If we get a sound defensive full back who knows?

You should be taking your hats off to a consumate professional who has gone from being a gangly kid to a strong top drawer professional who keeps himself very fit and will do what he is asked without question. One of the first on the team sheet who's clocked up the miles for the cause.

Here's to you Gamst.

Are you his agent?

[CAPT KAYOS]

My post is just more of a stock response to the over-simplified view that every time a player goes down in the box it should either be a penalty or a booking for diving, anyone who's played the game knows it just isn't that simple.

But its simple enough for anybody who has played the game to know that two hands on somebody's shoulders warrants a foul - juts not the incompetent buffoons officials - well not on Saturday - but every bloody week Rovers get pulled up for it on corners etc

As I have posted previously if that had been the other way around and Pedersen or Santa etc had fouled Rafael they would have given the freekick.

They are quick enough to give them outside the box - Saturday was a penalty and a sending off.

[LeChuck]

Well you have never seen a tap tackle then.

You must doze off when you watch top class rugged.

Rafael didn't tap his ankles though, did he?

[LeftWinger]

Rafael didn't tap his ankles though, did he?

I'm pretty sure he catches them in fairness.

[gumboots]

I'm pretty sure he catches them in fairness.

The point surely is that to put your hands on the guy's shoulders is to intend to foul. whether the contact is enough to cause Pedersen to fall over or not is irrelevant because fouls can be given for intent. If you don't mean to pull him back then you don't put your hands there. Fouls are given for pushes and pulls all over the field - just not against Man U in their own penalty box on this occasion.

No, I don't think many do underestimate that, Sparky. Like me, they probably still have a sense of disbelief that Brad, the one player we expected to be loyal to the club, would end his playing days with us, but has gone.

Agree, he couldn't refuse the offer, etc, etc, but I still can't get my head round it.

Oddly enough, watching Villa play against chelsea, I said to my husband that I still wonder what he's doing there, as though we've only loaned him out for a while and he will see sense and return. I know he won't but seeing him there is positively surreal.

No way on this earth that Big Brad would of saved either of those 2 goals.

Cannot believe that Robinson is getting the blame. Yes for the 2nd he could have been a further 3 yards back, but with how late that ball would of been seen at that pace, no way in this world would he or Brad or Cech of saved it!

There was a lot of pace and power on that ball and I reckon even getting his hands to it would not have been enough to save it. robinson doesn't fill me with confidence and those who thought Brad for robinson was a good long-term deal seem to me to be in the wrong (my opinion only) but to criticise robinson for a goal that most keepers would have let in is unfair.

[LeChuck]

I'm pretty sure he catches them in fairness.

You could be right, I must admit I'm not sure and I've seen it a few times now. That would be the only reason he could fall down, the brushing of arms across his back wouldn't be enough.

[incecticide]

Saturday was a penalty and a sending off.

I agree completely, but if the ref isn't 100% he can't give it. Especially with 70,000 United fans ready to kill you if you do give it.

[modes98]

I agree completely, but if the ref isn't 100% he can't give it. Especially with 70,000 United fans ready to kill you if you do give it.

For all the dodgy decisions Webb and his assistants are in excellent viewing positions and can have no excuses for missing them/failing to take action. For the kickings out they were mearly a couple of yards away.

Refs have to use their instincts and give the decision, it doesn't matter what stadium it is or who will think what.

[OscarRaven]

You could be right, I must admit I'm not sure and I've seen it a few times now. That would be the only reason he could fall down, the brushing of arms across his back wouldn't be enough.

Look I've been more than stinging in my opinion, was it it a pen - yes I believe it was, lets get that cleared up first.

Did Pederson get clipped at high speed on the ankle that caused him to lose his balance and fall - No he didn't, we have all seen those and in slow motion it is very clear when that happens. It's instant, the players eyes are still on the ball then they go flying, reactions follow.

Did Pederson find the weight of the defender to much to bear on his shoulders and collapse. No he didn't, although he had been fouled the player was well clear of him, when his eyes suddenly wandered skywards, his arms went up (up! if you fall you generally protect yourself in the direction you are falling) and his knees gave way.

Yes he was fouled. Yes it was a penalty. But pederson went down soft (as most PL players do) when he had a glorious shooting chance (albeit on the wrong foot - coincidence?). That's why he is a coward and a cheat, he could have stayed on his feet but he didn't, he bottled it.

Not defending the ref (who was appaling), not defending the other cheats on the pitch (they should have been down to 9) or in the PL, just expresing my disapointment with a player who I thought could have done better. The old Pederson would have buried it wrong foot or not.

[waggy]

i was in new york and i could see were ronaldo was going to but that free kick,poor effort by robbo,the rest did well.

[CAPT KAYOS]

I agree completely, but if the ref isn't 100% he can't give it. Especially with 70,000 United fans ready to kill you if you do give it.

The question has to be why they couldn't be 100% about it though - its where the ball was - only those two players officials in direct line ... now where's the difficulty to see Rafel's hands around Pedersens neck by one of the officials - something that near enough everybody saw within the ground except the officials? ( they somehow manage to see incidents in packed penalty boxes and offsides that nobody else sees!!)

As I have said Pedersen has to be given the benefit of the doubt if he says he was clipped , but I'm with the others and think he did go down far too easy and feel this is the reason that the ref did not give it is because he felt Pedersen was looking for the penalty - which if so he should have been booked.

Gumboots - if Robinson had got his hands to it ( which he should have done) it would have taken it over the bar - his positioning was all wrong and I reckon most keepers would have saved it. As Waggy states you could tell where Ronaldo was going to put it if not only by his run up. now whether he was unsighted by the wall or not is only something he can answer and if so then he has only himself to blame for not organising it (something Friedal was not very good at either)

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

But its simple enough for anybody who has played the game to know that two hands on somebody's shoulders warrants a foul - juts not the incompetent buffoons officials - well not on Saturday - but every bloody week Rovers get pulled up for it on corners etc

As I have posted previously if that had been the other way around and Pedersen or Santa etc had fouled Rafael they would have given the freekick.

They are quick enough to give them outside the box - Saturday was a penalty and a sending off.

I think you sum up why I felt so damned annoyed following Saturdays game. If it had been the other way around - Dunn kicking Ronaldo or Rafael being man-handled by Pedersen in our box - you know that the decision would have gone against us.

But more than anything it is the inconsistency shown by referees. Beckham got sent off for far less than Ronaldo did in the World Cup - Eboue (more recently) got a second yellow card. Where is the consistency.

As for the penalty that wasn't - it looked like he went down easily - but in his defence both players were running at pace and even the slightest nudge can be enough to send a player flying. It was a penalty - and I am sure we will see similar penalties given this season - but probably not against United at OT

[Eddie]

Sure he went down easily, but he didn't dive. There was still contact there, contact which isn't allowed. Whether or not that contact should have been enough to make him fall over is really besides the point. Why, if Webb felt that it wasn't a penalty, did he not book Pedersen for diving, when he had already shown he was quite willing to do this (when he rightly booked Ronaldo for a dive). What that shows me is that he bottled it. He wasn't prepared to give the penalty at that moment.

[JAL]

The question has to be why they couldn't be 100% about it though - its where the ball was - only those two players officials in direct line ... now where's the difficulty to see Rafel's hands around Pedersens neck by one of the officials - something that near enough everybody saw within the ground except the officials? ( they somehow manage to see incidents in packed penalty boxes and offsides that nobody else sees!!)

Have the TV people shown the angle or viewpoint from Howard Webbs prospective hes running the game, hes probably had a look at his assistant who is on the opposite side which begs the question would he have had a clear view, doubt it very much. If the defenders hands had been on Pedersen that slpit second longer i'm sure Webb would have come to the correct conclusion.

If hes not 100% sure he doesnt give it, the difference with packed penalty areas is its usually a set play where everyone starts from a fairly static point so its easier to follow the play. ###### happens and it just did on us lets move on and take the positives out of it.

[ABBEY]

pen= defo..made meal of= defo

ronscumldo= send off defo

free kick for goal=defo no goal he shouldnt have been on pitch

utd dissallowed goal= same as shearer /sherwood a few years back red scum.

point=should have defo

[thenodrog]

From the excellent Sunday Times report........... Conclusive proof that it was a penalty!

Similarly, Rovers, at Ewood Park, would have been confident of securing a second-half penalty, with the score at 1-1, when Morten Gamst Pedersen went down after Rafael Da Silva had put his hands on his shoulders. Webb was unmoved, which cannot be said of Allardyce, who became embroiled in a heated exchange with Ferguson.

“Sir Alex doesn’t think it’s a penalty, but I think it is,” said Allardyce. “It has to be pretty blatant to get them here at Old Trafford.”

Ferguson retorted by insisting that there was no question of a penalty award. On the contrary, Pedersen should been cautioned. “The ref booked Ronaldo for diving — rightly, it was a dive,” he said. “But what did Pedersen do? That was absolutely a dive. It was nowhere near a penalty kick. As soon as he feels the hand on his shoulder, he goes over, and he’s not got a yellow card.”

The admission of that “hand on the shoulder”would appear to confirm that Allardyce had an argument,

err 'hand on his shoulder' thats a foul in the area then by the last defender Fergy!

[modes98]

hes probably had a look at his assistant who is on the opposite side which begs the question would he have had a clear view,

with packed penalty areas

Webb doesn't have these excuses, he was shown having a clear view of the incident. As it was a breakaway there was hardly anyone in the box either.

[roversmum]

Yes but the twerp on the opposite side was painfully in need of a good optician as he showed when he gave away our goal kick as a corner to United. Either that or his vest was a manchester united shirt because he gave us absolutely nothing during that match.

[ace]

Yes but the twerp on the opposite side was painfully in need of a good optician as he showed when he gave away our goal kick as a corner to United. Either that or his vest was a manchester united shirt because he gave us absolutely nothing during that match.

..Wasn't the shortsighted Devine was it Mum? Don't forget that Webb was the ref in the West Ham game who gave tevez a pen for a non-challenge and awarded a goal when the ball didnt cross the line!

[eddiewac]

Wasn't Pedersen originally right footed? So I'm pretty sure he didn't go down because it was on his wrong foot,nobody remember the burnley goal?

[SamTheShrew]

..Wasn't the shortsighted Devine was it Mum? Don't forget that Webb was the ref in the West Ham game who gave tevez a pen for a non-challenge and awarded a goal when the ball didnt cross the line!

something i have never forgiven Webb for. vastly overrated in my opinion, and appears to have let his stature as 'england's best' go to his head. now just another FA/premier league pawn