[Archived] Hull City V Blackburn Rovers

[thenodrog]

I don't think the second yellow was harsh. I do however think that he was stupid to go in with his studs up after the other fella had been sent off and whilst the crowd were booing his every move.

[Stonesrick]

S

o, as for Andrews being effective, apart from the goal he wasn't [iMO]. Simply because midfield was pretty much by-passed all afternoon, by both sides. The defenders were the effective ones.

I'd like to wager a bet that if you were to ask all those effective defenders what they think of Andrews as a player and what he contributes to the team, the answer would be in the positive.

I always thought that football was a team game and that "The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. " (IMO)

We had a fantastic day out at Hull and thats only our 6th league win this season so let's please all enjoy it, get behind the team and the individual players and keep the momentum going.

Great away following by the way.

[BuckyRover]

I really enjoyed the performance yesterday. Until I came on here and read the post match comments. If we get relegated it will be down to our so called "fans". Embarrassing

[den]

That wouldn't be the same Rovers fans who'd made their minds up about Andrews before he'd kicked a ball for us would it? Fans who thought that since Andrews came from the lower divisions he'd never be good enough?

And lo and behold they're still sticking with that view regardless of his performances, and the opinion of fellow professionals, football journalists and world class managers. All those other people must be worng (surely mad in fact) for actually thinking Andrews is putting in decent performances. Forget people who have worked in football all their lives - what do they know? Fans who see him for ninety minutes every couple of weeks (and have no other actual experience of professional football) - they're the one's who know. Not the one's who actually work and have been hugely successful in football - they're clueless.

Get real.

Yes Jonnolad, the same fans who thought Paul Ince wasn't a very good choice as manager. The same rovers fans who know more about Andrews than Paul Merson.

[CAPT KAYOS]

The lino flagged for that, it wasn't down to the ref.

Yep sorry he did - didn't word it how I meant.

Just trying to highlight something that was directly in front of us and probably why Roberts gets angry at the decisions that go against him if that is anything to go off

[den]

I really enjoyed the performance yesterday. Until I came on here and read the post match comments. If we get relegated it will be down to our so called "fans". Embarrassing

Which ones are upsetting you Bucky?

[speeeeeeedie]

OK, think about this argument.

The rovers fans who actually watch rovers, week in, week out, know more about Keith Andrews strengths and weaknesses than Paul Merson does.

They also know more about the same than Trapattoni. Plus we all know about the lack of options for Allardyce.

Den, that's a load of tripe. Comparing Trap's knowledge to Rovers fans.

Football fans watch games, coaches analyse games.

[den]

Den, that's a load of tripe. Comparing Trap's knowledge to Rovers fans.

Football fans watch games, coaches analyse games.

I put that forward for discussion Speeeedie? Firstly, do all coaches know more about every player than any fan? - yes or no?

The answer can't possibly be yes, can it? I mean, has no manager ever played players who the general fan knew was lacking?

PS, Speeeedie, maybe you thought I said "They also know more about the game than Trapattoni"?

[Nelsonfan]

Just bloody relieved with the result! And that we are finally *just* outside the bottom three. I actually feel we can overcome this and remain in the league. More than I could have said a short while ago. Big Sam does seem to have got the team playing as a team again and while it isn't always working or pretty, at least we are picking up some important points.

[Jonnolad]

Yes Jonnolad, the same fans who thought Paul Ince wasn't a very good choice as manager. The same rovers fans who know more about Andrews than Paul Merson.

Paul Merson..... and Sam Allerdvce and Giovanni Trapatoni and countless football journalists it would appear though - people who actually know about football, rather than watching 90 minutes every 2 weeks!

Incidentally I categorically didn't think Ince was a good choice as manager but you know what, when he was here I was willing to give him a chance. He wasn't good enough and had to go though. If he had been successful though, would you still be saying you thought he wasn't a good choice, because I wouldn't.

Same with Keith Andrews, and Keith Andrews is now putting in solid decent performances in for us when we absolutely need him to. What more can he do? So why are you continuing with the constant moaning about him?

Why should it matter where he came from? Why should that even be an issue? Surely what matters is how he performs in the blue and white halves.

You carry on moaning about him though ad nauseum, and have a groan at Ewood when his name's mentioned. Why not even have a boo? That's obviously the best thing for Rovers in our current situation.

[speeeeeeedie]

I put that forward for discussion Speeeedie? Firstly, do all coaches know more about every player than any fan? - yes or no?

The answer can't possibly be yes, can it? I mean, has no manager ever played players who the general fan knew was lacking?

It's not a yes-no answer but you can't say that coaches don't know players. What a fan sees as lacking may not be the case for a manager; this is why I disagree. In general fans don't have a clue what the inner workings of a team are unless they are at the training pitch every day.

In my Rovers history fans have had a right moan at a select few. The ones I'll pick out for now are Sherwood and Wilcox. Sherwood because of his errrant passing, and Wilcox because of his perceived inability to do anything. Sherwood was an ever present in our title season, which nearly fell apart becaue Wilcox got injured. The coach obviously saw something the fans didn't.

[Jonnolad]

I put that forward for discussion Speeeedie? Firstly, do all coaches know more about every player than any fan? - yes or no?

My gran's a Rovers fan - does she know more than Trappatoni?

By your logic she does!

[CrazyIvan]

I put that forward for discussion Speeeedie? Firstly, do all coaches know more about every player than any fan? - yes or no?

The answer can't possibly be yes, can it? I mean, has no manager ever played players who the general fan knew was lacking?

The answer is that coaches do, in general, know a hell of a lot more about players than the average fan. They have the statistics, they train them, they have been in the game and played it for a long time themselves before coaching. Whereas your average fan has, most of the time, done little more than sit on his backside supporting his club with all the bias and blinkered vision that it brings.

As for players being played who the average fan 'know' are lacking, yes it happens but then the average fans expectations are quite often unrealistic. Managers make mistakes signing players and there are a number of high profile cases of just that. But generally the manager signs and plays players who he thinks are good enough. He may have little choice (as per Big Sams arrival) but I would guarantee Big Sam knows his players pretty well by now, what their strengths are, what their weaknesses are and what they bring to the team. A lot of this is data collected during games and during training so yes, I would strongly suspect Big Sam knows a great deal more about his players than we do.

[den]

Paul Merson..... and Sam Allerdvce and Giovanni Trapatoni and countless football journalists it would appear though - people who actually know about football, rather than watching 90 minutes every 2 weeks!

Incidentally I categorically didn't think Ince was a good choice as manager but you know what, when he was here I was willing to give him a chance. He wasn't good enough and had to go though. If he had been successful though, would you still be saying you thought he wasn't a good choice, because I wouldn't.

Same with Keith Andrews, and Keith Andrews is now putting in solid decent performances in for us when we absolutely need him to. What more can he do? So why are you continuing with the constant moaning about him?

Why should it matter where he came from? Why should that even be an issue? Surely what matters is how he performs in the blue and white halves.

You carry on moaning about him though ad nauseum, and have a groan at Ewood when his name's mentioned. Why not even have a boo? That's obviously the best thing for Rovers in our current situation.

OK I give up. You haven't made one point worth debating.

[gumboots]

I'm shocked that there are still those who cannot see any good in Andrews. He's not a star and knows he's not. He's a guy doing the best job he can in the circumstances he finds himself in. It's not his fault Ince brought him here. He stays fit and keeps running. In an ideal world we'd all like a player who thinks more quickly and makes more correct choices. we'd all like a more technically gifted player. We'd all like someone with more pace. However, we don't have them and what we have is Keith andrews. We don't think he's good enough and in his heart of hearts probably he doesn't either. However, he's what we've got and so deserves our support while he's on the pitch. He does not deserve constant criticism from us. If he was lazy, arrogant or permanently injured then I could understand the antipathy towards him but for his own supposed fans to be looking for his every mistake and never giving praise where it's due, is beyond belief.

[Jonnolad]

OK I give up. You haven't made one point worth debating.

Yeah - course I haven't

How's about this for a suggestion - this Wednesday when the team gets called out, why not give an extra big cheer for Keith. Who knows, if he thinks his home fans are actually behind him, maybe it might just make him play that little bit better.

What's the worst that could happen?

[alexanders]

Yeah - course I haven't

How's about this for a suggestion - this Wednesday when the team gets called out, why not give an extra big cheer for Keith. Who knows, if he thinks his home fans are actually behind him, maybe it might just make him play that little bit better.

What's the worst that could happen?

I agree.

Maybe Keith would run that extra mile and even get on the score sheet again.

[den]

The answer is that coaches do, in general, know a hell of a lot more about players than the average fan. They have the statistics, they train them, they have been in the game and played it for a long time themselves before coaching. Whereas your average fan has, most of the time, done little more than sit on his backside supporting his club with all the bias and blinkered vision that it brings.

Let's get back on track. The argument from Jonnolad was that Paul Merson knows more about Rovers players than the rovers fans. No he doesn't.

The coaches at Ewood certainly do know more about their players obviously, than the fans. That doesn't mean they get everything right. Does the manager always pick the right team? Your post suggests they do. It still remains though that Andrews' inclusion in the Irish team, proves nothing.

All this started because I took up a point that someone made, that Andrews had an "Effective" game yesterday. Apart from the goal, he had minimal effect on the game. The type of game that it was meant that he couldn't have much of an input. The back four and goalkeeper were the one's that won us that game, not the midfielders.

[Paul Mellelieu]

Let's get back on track. The argument from Jonnolad was that Paul Merson knows more about Rovers players than the rovers fans. No he doesn't.

The coaches at Ewood certainly do know more about their players obviously, than the fans. That doesn't mean they get everything right. Does the manager always pick the right team? Your post suggests they do. It still remains though that Andrews' inclusion in the Irish team, proves nothing.

All this started because I took up a point that someone made, that Andrews had an "Effective" game yesterday. Apart from the goal, he had minimal effect on the game. The type of game that it was meant that he couldn't have much of an input. The back four and goalkeeper were the one's that won us that game, not the midfielders.

Amen to that.

[speeeeeeedie]

Let's get back on track. The argument from Jonnolad was that Paul Merson knows more about Rovers players than the rovers fans. No he doesn't.

All this started because I took up a point that someone made, that Andrews had an "Effective" game yesterday. Apart from the goal, he had minimal effect on the game. The type of game that it was meant that he couldn't have much of an input. The back four and goalkeeper were the one's that won us that game, not the midfielders.

OK. Do you know that Paul Merson knows nothing about Rovers players?

Having played the game for years Merson will watch with an analytical eye, seeing things the average Rovers fan will not based on experience. Where does a player run? Does he communicate well? How is his positioning when he does not have the ball? Rovers fans tend to follow the ball.

Highlighted is a classic quote, not just from you mind. Ultimately his goal won us the game as that is what football is about. Everyone contributed; defenders tackled, the keeper made some saves, all to protect the lead that Andrews' goal gave us.

[CrazyIvan]

Let's get back on track. The argument from Jonnolad was that Paul Merson knows more about Rovers players than the rovers fans. No he doesn't.

The coaches at Ewood certainly do know more about their players obviously, than the fans. That doesn't mean they get everything right. Does the manager always pick the right team? Your post suggests they do. It still remains though that Andrews' inclusion in the Irish team, proves nothing.

All this started because I took up a point that someone made, that Andrews had an "Effective" game yesterday. Apart from the goal, he had minimal effect on the game. The type of game that it was meant that he couldn't have much of an input. The back four and goalkeeper were the one's that won us that game, not the midfielders.

Lets get back on track? I was answering your question Den.

My post does not suggest that the manager always picks the right team by any stretch of the imagination, I neither state that nor hint it. Take exception to what I've ACTUALLY said rather than what you are reading into it.

Andrews DID have an effective game yesterday. He scored, that was pretty damned effective!

[ABBEY]

I really enjoyed the performance yesterday. Until I came on here and read the post match comments. If we get relegated it will be down to our so called "fans". Embarrassing

if we get relegated its because of the fans....go on do tell how the hell you work this one out??

[Eddie]

I thought Andrews was the pick of our midfielders. It wasn't a great game for either midfield as they were generally bypassed, particularly ours, but he covered ground, tackled and got forward to support Santa Cruz. He had a shaky start where he gave the ball away a few times in decent positions in the first 20 or so minutes, but at the point the team was playing dreadfully.

If Dunn had put in that shift we would have been talking about how crucial he is to our survival. Andrews did his job well. He wasn't fantastic and we won't be selling him for millions anytime soon, but there can't really be any complaints about what he did.

For me, he continues to represent good value for money.

Let's get back on track. The argument from Jonnolad was that Paul Merson knows more about Rovers players than the rovers fans. No he doesn't.

The coaches at Ewood certainly do know more about their players obviously, than the fans. That doesn't mean they get everything right. Does the manager always pick the right team? Your post suggests they do. It still remains though that Andrews' inclusion in the Irish team, proves nothing.

I actually have to disagree with you on one point, the fact that 3 managers (two of whom are very experienced and well respected) have given him the nod does say something, even if both of the sides they are in charge of are weak in that area. We may not have a huge selection of great midfielders, but we do have options apart from Andrews and the fact that he continues to be selected shows that obviously people more in-the-know than you or I seem to be at least relatively impressed by him.

He will always have the Ince tag on him and so many of you will never accept him. I think that's a slight shame.

If he had been a Hughes signing he would be thought of as a shrewd piece of business, not a world beater, but capable of doing a good job. That's exactly what he is. He needs to be turned into a squad man and we need to improve the players in front of him in the pecking order, but as we can't do that at the moment I think he's doing a decent job of it.

[brfcs5359]

(Keith Andrews for and against should be in another thread)

Went yesterday. Poor game.

• Pitch was greasy, bouncy and cut up. It ruined the game as players had only one touch before they lost possession generally and the ball was up the air, or static following the endless free kicks awarded. So an assessment is hard.

• Hull started the better. Plenty of crosses that's all.

• Rovers got a grip and it looked a case of how many after the first two.

• Following their sending off and I thought we could get 5. Peds got sent off and we went to pieces. eg Corners where they passed it short unmarked and ran into the box 3 times! 10 more minutes and it would have been 2-2.

• Big Sam went negative at the end again, al la City and all it did was invite trouble from a a very fit Hull City full of cloggers. This needs addressing as it causes a lack of confidence.

PLAYERS

Robinson - 7 - caught the crosses an helped take the sting out Hull early on. Didn't put a foot wrong. Two awesome point blank saves (both flagged offside afterwards). Kicking excellent again. Best game (half!) I think.

Ooijar - 6 - Say what you like. He's going to be missed next season. Out of position, superb cover and concentration.

Nelsen - 8 - MOM. Had 40 headers to deal with. Won every one heading the ball to safety every time. Right place right time all afternoon.

Samba - 6 - Usual all action 110% Samba. When the chips were down, made sure Hull got nothing.

Givet - 6 - Great defender, no attacking ideas. A centre half, not a full back. 110%

Diouf - 5 - Worked hard but his lack of pace is woeful. Has to turn back on himself always. Gave 110%, tracked back. Definately not a first team starter next season. Took the corners which were much better/good but Duke commanded his area well and caught most of them.

Andrews - 6 - PROZONE player. Ran more than any other. Great run for 2nd goal. Can't tackle, too lightweight. Get's caught out of position and sometimes in possession. Some good passes though. One of the few who tried to play football.

Grella - 4 - Poor. ran and ran but for little effort. Yes he's a terrier but he's got no teeth and distribution at times is simply 'get rid of it'.

Warnock - 6 - Tries to lead the team. Combative midfielder who gets forward. 110%. Passing in and out at moment. Great tackler. Worth another shout in the middle.

Pedersen - 6 - Held the ball and passed it well. Overall getting better, if only slightly. Took his man on. PROZONE player like Andrews.

Santa Cruz - 8 - Didn't put a foot wrong from what was very poor service - non from Diouf, limited from Peds. Wasted with this quality of service.

--------

Jason Brown - 7 - solid on crosses, good shot stopper. Did the business comfortably.

Mokeona 4 - sits deep, invited trouble, no creativity or real touch. He's not a home player and he's certainly not a defensive away player.

Roberts - 4 - ran around. Shoved his backside into Turner to referee's dislike. Hard to judge off scraps but contributed nothing in the 10 minutes he was on.

Big Fat Sam - Got it right 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 whether we're feeling confident or not. 40 minutes where Hull we're blown away. Substitutions too negative a la Man City. Hull were poor

[LeChuck]

Diouf - 5 - Worked hard but his lack of pace is woeful.

Didn't he go off in the last match with a hamstring injury? If he was running as slowly as you suggest then that must have still be causing him problems because he's not slow usually.