[Archived] Morten Gamst Pedersen

[den]

Den, he says he doesn't want to play elsewhere. OK he may not want a "performance" related pay deal if all the others are on huge deals no matter what result they achieve.

But something needs to be done, don't you think?

It needs to start somewhere. Why not him, why not Blackburn and then the rest?

I'm not sure what you mean, when you say "something needs to be done" Dave.

It's a simple decision IMO. Either offer him a new deal or sell him. If we were a top half club, then maybe we could look to attract someone better, but we're not in a position to replace him yet. There are more pressing positions that need sorting out than left wing. I would give MGP another contract, assuming of course that the club could afford his demands.

[dave birch]

Den, his "demands" as far as I can understand, are limited to a new contract; one that doesn't even need an increase.

[RibbleValleyRover]

I guess it all depends on how many years he has left on his current contract. Theres no way i would offer him a new long term contract if he has some years left to run.

I see everyone goes on about his defensive qualities but his delivery from set pieces and his crosses into the box has been dire for years. I'm sure we could sell him in the summer and Sam's scouting network could find someone to put a decent ball from that left wing.

[chris]

I guess it all depends on how many years he has left on his current contract. Theres no way i would offer him a new long term contract if he has some years left to run.

I see everyone goes on about his defensive qualities but his delivery from set pieces and his crosses into the box has been dire for years. I'm sure we could sell him in the summer and Sam's scouting network could find someone to put a decent ball from that left wing.

16 months

[joey_big_nose]

If we give him a heavily performance linked deal he would walk away. Much as moan about him he would be able to get a contract at at least twelve of the clubs currently in the premiership by my reckoning. It would be realtively easy for him to fins domeone who would match his terms, especially if he left on a free transfer.

Sad really, but as an established premier league player, if an unspectacular one, he holds most of the cards. We need to give him a new contrat or find someone better.

[gumboots]

I guess it all depends on how many years he has left on his current contract. Theres no way i would offer him a new long term contract if he has some years left to run.

I see everyone goes on about his defensive qualities but his delivery from set pieces and his crosses into the box has been dire for years. I'm sure we could sell him in the summer and Sam's scouting network could find someone to put a decent ball from that left wing.

If it were that easy to find another left sided player why are so many teams interested in signing Pedersen? They may not get as far as bidding for him at the moment as we've made it fairly obvious so far that he's not for sale, but just watch the vultures hover if we look like we might think of doing so. doesn't matter how good a scouting system you have if you can't find a player as good who will fit into your team, settle in quickly to the damp north west, and wants to play for you. we are a relatively small club and players are not queuing up or jumping up and down saying "Please, please please let me play for you". This guy is as good as it gets out there barring the really big teams and players and WANTS to stay at Ewood. Why would we get rid on the off-chance that there is better?

[RibbleValleyRover]

This guy is as good as it gets out there barring the really big teams and players and WANTS to stay at Ewood. Why would we get rid on the off-chance that there is better?

I didn't say it would be easy to find a suitable replacement. I don't see the harm in looking in the summer to see if there is someone available who could do a better job on that left wing. If there isn't then the manager will keep him, but if there is the chance to offload him and Sam has a replacement in mind i hope he takes that option.

I'm quite frankly astounded at the level of support or how highly Pedersen is being rated by my fellow Rovers fans. He has been dire for years and quite often in games we are playing with 10 men due to his inability to cross a ball or put in a decent set piece. He is a winger, its his main job to supply service to the forwards.

I've lost count the number of times I’ve seen him get in a decent position and I’ve ended up losing my cool because he cannot cross a ball for the players waiting in the box. I also don’t believe this crap about him becoming like his old self with better players around him, he had the chance to make the step up to become our main creative source when Bentley left and so far he has failed.

[Hughesy]

Adam Johnson from Boro would kick Pedersen into touch - sign him up!!

[Ricky]

cant believe nobodys gone for Johnson. I guess Boro are keeping him and selling Downing in the summer.

I'd have Johnson in my team ahead of Downing any day of the week.

[Eddie]

Dave - Eddie, you guys think MGP would be happy to sign a performance related contract?

If he was another Robbie Fowler, desperate to play, then maybe. MGP would finf another Premier league club if Rovers didn't offer him a decent deal. Left wingers aren't exactly in abundance.

Cloud cuckoo land I reckon.

I'm a firm believer in the fact that the number of players good enough and willing to play in the premiership far outnumber the available places in the 20 clubs in the league, so if MGP doesn't want to sign it then someone else will. Sooner or later the club has to adjust to the situation and this is one of the many ways in which we could improve our situation.

[CAPT KAYOS]

cant believe nobodys gone for Johnson. I guess Boro are keeping him and selling Downing in the summer.

I'd have Johnson in my team ahead of Downing any day of the week.

Same here

[gumboots]

Same here

And the Boro would sell us Johnson? Highly unlikely I'd have thought

[RovertheHill]

If it were that easy to find another left sided player why are so many teams interested in signing Pedersen? They may not get as far as bidding for him at the moment as we've made it fairly obvious so far that he's not for sale, but just watch the vultures hover if we look like we might think of doing so. doesn't matter how good a scouting system you have if you can't find a player as good who will fit into your team, settle in quickly to the damp north west, and wants to play for you. we are a relatively small club and players are not queuing up or jumping up and down saying "Please, please please let me play for you". This guy is as good as it gets out there barring the really big teams and players and WANTS to stay at Ewood. Why would we get rid on the off-chance that there is better?

You should know better. Basically the flow chart on these forums appears to be

IS THE PLAYER GOOD?

YES, HE'S GOOD

DOES THE PLAYER WANT TO STAY?

NO, HE'S DROPPING BIG HINTS

IS HE A PERSONAL FAVOURITE?

YES, I LOVE HIM

Fair play. At least he's honest. We can get 3 better players for the money, despite the fact we never did with Shearer, Duff or Bentley. Sell him

NO, NEVER WARMED TO HIM

What a disloyal b*st*rd. Good riddance. Booo, hiss! Sell him

YES, HE LOVES THE CLUB

He never tries anyway. We can do better. We can get 3 better players with the money, despite the fact we never did with Shearer, Duff or Bentley. Sell him

NO, HE'S POOR

DOES THE PLAYER WANT TO STAY?

NO, HIS AGENT'S IN THE BLOODY PAPER AGAIN

What a disloyal b*st*rd. Good riddance. Booo, hiss! Sell him

YES, HE'S SETTLED HERE

Don't care how hard he tries, he's sh*te. We can do better. Sell him

[ABBEY]

DID HE BEAT THE DINGLES

YES HE DID

[Exiled in Toronto]

I don't believe for a minute he would walk into half the teams in the Prem. He's been an ineffective player in a team who so far have deserved to be in the bottom 3. As for highest number of assists, that really is a tallest of the Seven Dwarves comparison when you look at who he is up against. More assists than Andrews (championship at best), Dunn (crock), Grella (crock), Emerton (crock), Reid (crock), Tugay (corpse), That Irish winger whose name I can't even remember right now (useless), Mokoena....Woop-de-do. Give the man a pay rise immediately.

It's a rum do if we are in (at least for now) the richest league in the world and we can't expect to ever sign a better player than Pedersen. What's the bloody point?

[ABBEY]

I don't believe for a minute he would walk into half the teams in the Prem. .

It's a rum do if we are in (at least for now) the richest league in the world and we can't expect to ever sign a better player than Pedersen. What's the bloody point?

who would "walk " into this "half prem team " from rovers?

[gumboots]

I don't believe for a minute he would walk into half the teams in the Prem. He's been an ineffective player in a team who so far have deserved to be in the bottom 3. As for highest number of assists, that really is a tallest of the Seven Dwarves comparison when you look at who he is up against. More assists than Andrews (championship at best), Dunn (crock), Grella (crock), Emerton (crock), Reid (crock), Tugay (corpse), That Irish winger whose name I can't even remember right now (useless), Mokoena....Woop-de-do. Give the man a pay rise immediately.

It's a rum do if we are in (at least for now) the richest league in the world and we can't expect to ever sign a better player than Pedersen. What's the bloody point?

We may be in the richest league but we are hardly the richest team. I'm not a pedersen lover in that I'm not blind ot his faults but I just can't see why the desperation to sell a guy who wants to play for you. If he was making I want away moves you'd all be on his back and now he says he wants to stay you (or a significant number of you) can't wait to get rid. As has been said, if we sell where will the money go? Not on the equivalent replacement - it never does - and certainly not on someone better unless we're very lucky. I didn't say he'd walk into half the teams in the premiership, but I do think there'd be clubs willing to take him where he'd probably thrive and make us look fools for selling him.

[den]

I'm a firm believer in the fact that the number of players good enough and willing to play in the premiership far outnumber the available places in the 20 clubs in the league, so if MGP doesn't want to sign it then someone else will. Sooner or later the club has to adjust to the situation and this is one of the many ways in which we could improve our situation.

Three points Eddie -

1. If you know of numerous left wingers good enough to play in the Prem and willing to come to Ewood,, then firstly tell us and secondly, tell the managers of at least half of the prem clubs who are struggling to find a left winger anywhere.

2. If these players exist, why offer MGP another contract at all - particularly a performance related contract - which he would undoubtedly throw back in your face? Just sell him.

3. Trying to strengthen the team by offering performance related contracts to players we would like to join, is improving the situation? How?

This isn't a realistic situation you're suggesting Eddie.

[Eddie]

In response to 1 and 2 I'm not going to go into this game of just listing players again, it's pointless. As for why offer MGP a contract? Well, I think he has a lot of talent and we should be able to get a lot more out of him, he's settled and likes the club, so he's a player worth keeping. I think if you find the right formula for the contacts then players will accept them.

As for the third question, well, as I have suggested in other threads, the club needs to start looking more aggressively at bringing in younger players from abroad and stop fighting to hold onto good, but not world class, premiership players who we then offer contracts to at above our budget (Santa Cruz) and should just sell when the opportunity arises, make a profit and reinvest. The types of players I'm talking about would take performance related contracts, because even with that structure the offer would be far more than they can get where they are from.

As for why all that means I think we should actually keep MGP at this moment? Well, I don't think we would get true value for him given his current form and the market as it is, so for the moment he is a player we should keep. We should have sold him a couple of years ago when clubs were seriously looking at him. Just as we should have sold McCarthy. Just as we should have sold Reid. Just as we were right to sell Bentley. Just as we were right to sell Duff. Just as we were right to sell Dunn. In fact, I can't think of a situation where the club has sold a player for a significant fee and then been wrong. We've gone about finding replacements incorrectly or, as in the cases of Duff and Bentley, not really found replacements, but we've yet to see the club sell a player and then have him go on to be the next big thing. Once in a while we'll let go of great talent, once in a while we won't be able to find a replacement immediately, but long-term it is the best strategy.

[gumboots]

So it's right to keep on selling players we can't replace as in all those you've mentioned because somewhere out there is a vast pool of foreign players who will be no use to us if we happen to qualify for Europe ever again because we have to have a core of English players if the powers that be get their way? And where are these young foreigners who are that good and would adapt to the way we play etc as I've already mentioned? I've seen a fair bit of French football and outside their top couple of teams I haven't seen much talent. You only have to look at the supposedly top European teams to see that the top end of our league is streets ahead so they aren't selling to teams like ours and why would they want to come here anyway when they are qualifying for Champions League every year. We could go to Africa or South America but there's no guarantee those players would settle here and the top African players seem to have funny attitudes to things like trials etc. If it were that easy without cash to pick up players other teams would be doing far more of it given that they all have bigger budgets than us. Big teams can afford to fail with players. they can afford to bring in and reject numerous players. If they bring in young players from wherever and it doesn't work out they can afford to write it off as a failed experiment. Players like Duff weren't sold because they weren't good enough for us. they were sold and then, when played in a bigger team that did not centre round them and one poor performance and they were out, they lost the confidence that we had built in them. You can't say we were right to sell a player like that just because he hasn't maintained the form he had here. We struggled for years to get over his loss. And why, whenever you are challenged to provide names for the vast number of youngsters we could bring in do you always say it's pointless? I asked you this in the summer and you didn't answer. It's not pointless because we really would like to know and I'm sure the club would too, who the players are that we could pick up for next to nothing, who would be willing to come, who would fit into the club, the team, the area, and who we should therefore be looking to buy with the cash from the sale of any players you think we might get more than tuppence ha'penny for.

[DasGelb]

Just as we should have sold McCarthy. Just as we should have sold Reid. Just as we were right to sell Bentley. Just as we were right to sell Duff. Just as we were right to sell Dunn. In fact, I can't think of a situation where the club has sold a player for a significant fee and then been wrong. We've gone about finding replacements incorrectly or, as in the cases of Duff and Bentley, not really found replacements, but we've yet to see the club sell a player and then have him go on to be the next big thing. Once in a while we'll let go of great talent, once in a while we won't be able to find a replacement immediately, but long-term it is the best strategy.

Just doesn´t add up for me. We sold Bentley, did not replace him, and where do we find ourselves in the premiership these days again?

[Eddie]

In response to "if it were that easy"...well it simply is that easy. That's why every year in the premiership 5/6 players will be brought in for fees well within our price range. Each year across Europe that list probably expands to 30/40 players who are good enough for the premiership. That doesn't even take into account a list of players who were available for low prices or deals that fell through seeing as all of that isn't always common knowledge. It takes good scouts, good connections and hard work for every signing you make, but it's far from impossible.

I'll stand by the fact that it is pointless for me to provide names as it is pure conjecture on my part and based on nothing but my opinion. I could draw up a list of 40 names and say "these players are good enough" and no one would be able to prove or disprove it, so what is the point? I don't see why I should waste my time drawing up that list or why you should then waste your time reading it. All I would say is, as I just did in the paragraph above, each year players come in who fit the bill, so obviously they are out there. As for your comments about French and European football, the performance of French teams and other European nations is more a result of poor squads rather than individual talent. Ligue 1 and 2 still have a great number of players good enough to be playing in the premiership, as do many other leagues and there is talent all across Europe.

Also, when you sell a player for large sums of money and he then can't stay fit (Dunn or Duff) or his form completely falls away (Bentley) then I think that means you were right to sell. If a player can only perform at one club or isn't good enough to continue to perform at that level for an extended period of time then he isn't a "top class" player and can certainly be replaced for the sort of fee that was paid. Whether or not the selling club manages to do that is another question.

[patrickvalery]

In response to "if it were that easy"...well it simply is that easy. That's why every year in the premiership 5/6 players will be brought in for fees well within our price range. Each year across Europe that list probably expands to 30/40 players who are good enough for the premiership.

It takes good scouts, good connections and hard work for every signing you make, but it's far from impossible.

This argument falls down here. if 5/6 players of this ilk are brought into the PL every year that means mathematically, between the 20 top flight sides, about 4 PL clubs are going for each players signature. Not to mention interest from abroad. Broaden that to Europe and your 30/40 quota then becomes even less probable considering all the sides in Europe. For various reasons, from wealth, status and climate we are unlikely to suceed in pursuing these hidden young gems.

Your second comment about scouting network etc... is true to a point. To be successful you need all these attributes, but that applies to everyone. Simply demonstrating these skills will not guarantee we sign our share of talent. You mentioned in a previous post about how we shouldn't fight to hold on to good, but not world class players and how an aggressive recruitment drive for young foreign players would resolve this. I assume you mean these young foreign players would then hopefully become the world class talent you speak of? This is extremely naive. Surely every club in world football is looking to do this? I cannot see us recruiting young players such as Messi, Bojan, Pato, Benzema, Fabregas etc.... Simply ensuring our scoting network is competant will only put us on a level playing field with the majority of European sides. It will not allow us to compete for youngsters with the top bracket sides like Utd, Barca or Real. These players have such hype around them from a young age that sides like these are destined to sign them, barring very few examples.

Our strategy of signing good quality players who are perhaps out of form or favour is sound. As you said we build them up and sell for a profit. Where we fail is our lack of reinvestment. Meaning we are always hoping for one big transfer fee to balance the books.

I guess what i'm eluding to is....

Sell Pedersen. He's bloody awful!

[den]

Eddie, you're diluting the discussion now. We're not discussing the availability of players in general. This is about MGP and the main reason people would give him another contract is because of the lack of left wingers. There are few effective left wingers available, otherwise the Premier league would be full of them.

I don't think anyone is claiming that Ped is wonderful. He' is missed though when he's not playing. i.e. Everton last home game.

[gumboots]

Exactly.