[Archived] Sell Out At The Emirates

[thenodrog]

excellent post mate.

the most concerning part, was the lack of depht in the squad. It was almost frightening.

Is it? Well consider this. Arsenals annual wage bill is 3 times more than ours. Fact. Couple that with injuries to our big players and anyone with an ounce of common sense would see that the result is not really all that suprising.

[47er]

1) Great, as watching games doesn't matter, does being at them matter more?

2) I have already answered who should have played, reread my previous post.

3) I can argue with Sam's record. I still think he's being given a bit too much credit so far. I'm not "slagging" him off for everything he does, I'm not overawed by what he is done so far or inspired by the type of football we are playing. I think he'll do the job to get and get us to safety, which will obviously be a good achievement, but he didn't take over a sunken ship and I'm looking for more than just someone able to put together a side capable of beating Hull, Stoke and a clueless Newcastle. I hope he turns into a great manager for us and the way he sets us out now won't necessarily be the way we look next September, but I'm just judging what I see so far. I'm well aware of the fact that we have struggled against Arsenal almost every season, but what I also do remember is that we've only got good results against them when we've tried to play (only one real exception springs to mind and that is the 2-1 win where I think we had only one shot on target an Edu own goal and Friedel made something like 20 saves, although the shots on targets and saves could be a bit off). I'll stand by the fact that Allardyce couldn't have asked for a much better run of games when he first took charge of the club and where we find ourselves now is mainly the result of that (although there have been improvement in organisation, we were starting from such a low level that any one of us could probably have managed that). If we were going to take such a defensive approach then I would have expected us to be better organised and look more capable at the back, we were a shambles.

I don't like people accepting the fact that we go to the Emirates and lose 4-0. The performance was terrible and despite our injuries and who we were up against, the result is terrible. We aren't talking about a team romping to the championship here, this was 5th placed Arsenal (who will finish 4th). They had scored only 8 goals in their last 8 games, including matches against our relegation rivals West Brom, Sunderland, Spurs and Hull. Going into this game there were actually a lot of people saying things like "I wouldn't be surprised if we pick up a result" and "I think we get a point" (I wasn't one of them). We should have expected a defeat, but not in that manner. They had 21 shots, 9 on target...we had 5 and most of those were free kicks. They had 59% of the ball. I suggest you sit down and watch the full 90 minutes and then maybe you won't be so dismissive of such a terrible performance.

4) For the second season in a row our record against the top 10 is worrying. Last season we were terrible against our rivals for 6th and against the top 4 and this year we have lost virtually every game against the sides currently in the top 10 (Everton away being our only win? I haven't checked the top of the table after today). It's such a consistent problem that there is obviously something to it.

On to the next game and hopefully a win.

1) He did take over a sunken ship-------19th place and 5 points behind 17th.

2) You only have to go back 3 weeks for a great performance away to the World Champions

3) "despite our injuires"? Don't you mean "because of our injuries"? that team wouldn't beat many Championship sides.

4) Why are we so bad against top sides? Ummm........a puzzler that one. I think it might be because they have bigger and better squads because they have much more money that we have.

5)The fans who went and spent a lot of time and money deserve our sympathy but they will be forgiving if we stay up. You will just moan.

[Iceman]

The thing is we might have been playing with 7 defenders, but for me we only had 3 defenders. Samba, Ooijer and Givet. Once Givet went off, we were basically playing with 2 defenders. Simpson and Ollsen are hopeless!

[Stuart]

Who do you suggest we should of played with the above missing or already carrying knocks?

Did you actually read the rest of my post Hughsey?

[Bobby G]

I think the boys got a big rollocking from Big Sam yesterday and it serves them right.

It was possibly the worst performance, definitely defensively, since he took over and if Arsenal put away their chances could have been 8 or 9 goals against us.

Now the positives are we didnt lose any ground.

The negative is simply that our goal difference has taken a huge hit, but points are what counts and if we get 4 more wins we will be safe and that should be the target. Its do-able but we have to start against West Ham.

[imy9]

There seems to be some revisionist history going on here,

we had a total of 13 points from 17 games under Ince, our goals for and against was dire and we were getting spanked by everyone.

Sam comes in and we have gained a total of 17 points from 14 games, having lost THREE games to Arsenal, Man Utd and Aston Villa.

There is another fallacy on here, we cant beat the "big clubs" umm yes, when was the last time we did that? 2006 against Liverpool, that was THREE years ago and correct me if I am wrong but Hughes was in charge for a season and half through that.

Big Sam has done an excellent job so far, look at the table for proof.

[Parsonblue]

I must admit that I went to yesterday's game not really expecting to get anything and so I wasn't disappointed in the result. The big game for us last week was at Fulham and there we took three points. With two homes games coming up I can fully understand why Sam chose the team he did. Santa Cruz, Grella and Nelsen were all out injured. Givet started but wasn't really fit and Warnock came off with an injury. At 38, Tugay can't be expected to play every game and on the evidence of yesterday's performance Dunn is clearly not match fit. So Sam has to rotate his squad as best he can and he clearly sees the home games as the ones were points can be gained.

I think yesterday showed the lack of depth in our squad and the fact that we can't afford to strengthen it will mean more results like this in the future. Danny Simpson, like Carlos, is simply not good enough for the Premiership. In many ways I feel sorry for Martin Olsson as he is being asked to play at full-back when virtually all of his appearances for the reserves, over the past couple of seasons, have been as a winger. The fact that we presumably rested Keith Andrews yesterday so he can feature against West Ham next week shows just how thin our squad really is.

If you look at the whole commercial operation at Arsenal there is simply no way that the Rovers can possibly hope to compete with it. The players in their Academy and reserve team have cost more than those in our first team. Their matchday income must be ten or twelve times that of the Rovers.

I believe the performance against Fulham was a better reflection of the position the Rovers are in. It's the teams around us that we need to beat. Two wins and four draws from the last nine games would give us 40 points. Three wins and a three draws would surely keep us up. After the start we had under Paul Ince that would be a tremendous achievement by Big Sam.

[rover6]

Who should have played instead?

I know you will immediately disregard this as stupidity - however!

If there was no-one else for midfield, Allardyce should have played one of the reserve guys - probably Bryan Hodge. Moko is nothing short of an embarrassment (if you're inferior to Amdy Faye, then there is no other description for you, in the Premier League). Zurab has minimal pace, minimal mobility and hasn't played midfield since...his Dundee days? Rangers?

That midfield duo were near guarenteed to get whooped.

Why not give Bryan Hodge a chance. Yes, it's a risk but at least he is a central midfielder and can pass the ball. We still would have lost but at least Hodge may have been able to keep up with some of the Arsenal players.

I just find it pathetic that the football world is so infatuated with experience that a player like Zurab will be put in central midfield when everything about his game suggests that it is kamikaze tactics - especially when placed alongside Aaron Mokoena. I call that avant-garde surrealist management which puts melting clocks to shame. Sadly, it don't win points.

[Iceman]

I think the majority on here thinks Sam has done a good job. There is no question that he has steadied the ship, but there are still some questionable team selections from him. I thought yesterday he would have selected a more attack minded team, to try and nulify their attacking players. Its not easy for any team to defend for 90 mins, against a free flowing team like Arsenal. Im totaly against trying to sit back against the top teams, because you are bound to get ripped apart. So why not give it a real go like we did against United?

[broadsword]

Why not give Bryan Hodge a chance. Yes, it's a risk but at least he is a central midfielder and can pass the ball. We still would have lost but at least Hodge may have been able to keep up with some of the Arsenal players.

Because: a) It wouldn't have changed the result; and being on the wrong end of a drubbing wouldn't have done anythiong for his confidence; c) I have absolutely no idea whether he's any good

[Blackpool_Rover]

I think the majority on here thinks Sam has done a good job. There is no question that he has steadied the ship, but there are still some questionable team selections from him. I thought yesterday he would have selected a more attack minded team, to try and nulify their attacking players. Its not easy for any team to defend for 90 mins, against a free flowing team like Arsenal. Im totaly against trying to sit back against the top teams, because you are bound to get ripped apart. So why not give it a real go like we did against United?

attack minded team? like who?

for anyone who hasnt seen the shocking dive...

Pedersen dive

[thenodrog]

I think the majority on here thinks Sam has done a good job. There is no question that he has steadied the ship, but there are still some questionable team selections from him. I thought yesterday he would have selected a more attack minded team, to try and nulify their attacking players. Its not easy for any team to defend for 90 mins, against a free flowing team like Arsenal. Im totaly against trying to sit back against the top teams, because you are bound to get ripped apart. So why not give it a real go like we did against United?

Not wishing to be disparaging but I think Allardyces record against Arsenal with Bolton would show that he knows how to play against em more than yourself Iceman. Problem is that some of our lower squad members are not up to standard and as I have said before our relegation issues depend on our big players remaining injury free.

After signing Givet and Diouff in Jan for relatively little outlay I desperately hope we stay up to give SA chance to strengthen the squad properly.

Hughes found gems and SA has done similar since he's been here. Compare this with the dealings and signings made by the last man in charge.

[modes98]

Because: a) It wouldn't have changed the result; and being on the wrong end of a drubbing wouldn't have done anythiong for his confidence; c) I have absolutely no idea whether he's any good

But whats the point in having these reserve/youth players if we never play them when the opportunity arises. If we had no fit CMs why not play a young player who has played there all his career, above a central defender who hasn't got a clue. At least it gives him experience.

[KoNG]

Not a good result for us in terms of for and against... But going in after seeing the starting 11, there wasn't much in the way of hope.

I guess there's comfort in the fact that the "best team in the world" got done by a similar wholloping...

[ABBEY]

no comfort whatsover kong!

[bobsterbrfc]

Are there seriously people on here who think Allardyce hasn't done a fantastic job?

The sane amongst us should just assume you are a either liars or attention seekers if you people really do exist.

[broadsword]

But whats the point in having these reserve/youth players if we never play them when the opportunity arises. If we had no fit CMs why not play a young player who has played there all his career, above a central defender who hasn't got a clue. At least it gives him experience.

Putting them in in a game against Arsenal when we don't have sufficient numbers of decent players to stop a mauling is asking for trouble.

You'd want to blend them in against the weaker teams.

On the assumption that any of our reserves are actually good enough

[bubblerrovers]

What is wrong with some people, i can't believe what people are saying on this board it really annoys me, WE ARE a AVERAGE at best premier league team get over it. It wouldn't matter WHO played for rovers yesterday we 100% ten times out of ten would of lost. Yes half the squad is rubbish, there's noone in our reserve team with any talent and maybe one or two slightly promising youth players, no point playing youth so there first action in the squad us a battering away to Arsenal. Sam has done a brilliant job since joining us, the signings have been good considering we have very little money. Every season we fall further down the money league and now we're bottom, and if we stay up looking at the championship table we will be the poorest team in the premiership next season too. I know it hurts guys but it's the truth we all know it so just get used to it

[Exiled in Toronto]

Fulham, Sunderland, West Ham, Spurs and Hull have all been to the Emirates this season and got points, and I did hear somewhere that teams other than us do actually pick up injuries at times, so I do not buy this, 'how can we possibly hope to get anything' line of argument that was never trotted out under any previous manager. Did the 1500 fans who went have no hope when they bought their tickets?

We could, nay possibly should, have lost 9-0 yesterday; we have players committing the most awful premeditated fouls and dives but hey, that's OK because we might scrape enough points from elsewhere to stay up and the world will be rosy once more.

[ABBEY]

Fulham, Sunderland, West Ham, Spurs and Hull have all been to the Emirates this season and got points, and I did hear somewhere that teams other than us do actually pick up injuries at times, so I do not buy this, 'how can we possibly hope to get anything' line of argument that was never trotted out under any previous manager. Did the 1500 fans who went have no hope when they bought their tickets?

We could, nay possibly should, have lost 9-0 yesterday; we have players committing the most awful premeditated fouls and dives but hey, that's OK because we might scrape enough points from elsewhere to stay up and the world will be rosy once more.

do other teams not foul and dive?

[Parsonblue]

Why not give Bryan Hodge a chance. Yes, it's a risk but at least he is a central midfielder and can pass the ball. We still would have lost but at least Hodge may have been able to keep up with some of the Arsenal players.

Can I ask which reserve matches have convinced you that Hodge has pace or can pass the ball better than Mokoena? Having seen Hodge in action on many occasions I would still pick Aaron over him on every occasion. I actually don't think Aaron did too badly yesterday. He tried to stem the flow of the Arsenal midfield but there were simply too many gaps, particularly at full-back where Simpson looked awful, Givet and Warnock struggled with injury, and Olsson was simply out of his depth.

[Exiled in Toronto]

do other teams not foul and dive?

Not as pathetically as that, no.

Do other clubs not pick teams with less than 7 defenders when at the Emirates thinking they might be able to get a point?

[Nate]

But whats the point in having these reserve/youth players if we never play them when the opportunity arises. If we had no fit CMs why not play a young player who has played there all his career, above a central defender who hasn't got a clue. At least it gives him experience.

Don't be silly. That's common sense!

[ABBEY]

Not as pathetically as that, no........RONALDO? DUFF? GERRARD?

Do other clubs not pick teams with less than 7 defenders when at the Emirates thinking they might be able to get a point? HE PICKED A TEAM HE THOUGHT WAS RIGHT JUST AS HE DID FOR FULHAM

[bubblerrovers]

Fulham, Sunderland, West Ham, Spurs and Hull have all been to the Emirates this season and got points, and I did hear somewhere that teams other than us do actually pick up injuries at times, so I do not buy this, 'how can we possibly hope to get anything' line of argument that was never trotted out under any previous manager. Did the 1500 fans who went have no hope when they bought their tickets?

We could, nay possibly should, have lost 9-0 yesterday; we have players committing the most awful premeditated fouls and dives but hey, that's OK because we might scrape enough points from elsewhere to stay up and the world will be rosy once more.

Seriously can't you just get over it, Arsenal have been a little dodgy at home but it doesn't mean you should start expecting anything at the Emirates, i bet if we where playing utd next week you'd think a 2 nil win would be a poor result. Our defence is shocking has been all season, every game we play we give teams chances, i'm sure this will change when Big Sam gets a chance in the summer to make changes, I think Nelson will be the first out the door. I feel for the fans making the journey but if anyone really thought we would get something yesterday they must be mad.