[Archived] Ira Scum Cowardly Murdering @@@@@

[ABBEY]

not touched guinness for two years!

[allrovertheworld]

Well I'm half Irish ...the dodgy side of the family came from Belfast to get away from the loonies - but I refuse to celebrate because it's all fake . You go out and see would-be paddies struggling with their Guinness and putting on a fake accent ...pathetic .

Come to that I don't celebrate St George's Day much either . The real English aren't the demonstrative kind .......

I wouldn't say its all fake, although I can see what you mean when St Patricks gets sort of hijacked by folk over here and advertised everywhere. The story of St Patrick (who was actually Welsh) is a great story, as is the one of St George (who was actually Turkish). I think every countries saint should be celebrated. As a Welshman I take great pride in celebrating St Davids day.

[thenodrog]

I wouldn't say its all fake, although I can see what you mean when St Patricks gets sort of hijacked by folk over here and advertised everywhere. The story of St Patrick (who was actually Welsh) is a great story, as is the one of St George (who was actually Turkish). I think every countries saint should be celebrated. As a Welshman I take great pride in celebrating St Davids day.

Are you saying that you support and celebrate St Georges day in Wales allroverthe world?

[SouthAussieRover]

I take it that most of you won't be celebrating St Pat's on Tuesday?!?

You are correct.

Though I must admit it's funny watching all the plastic paddys coming out of the woodwork.

[Drummer Boy]

I have to agree it is funny seeing all the "I have tenuous Irish connections going back x generations and use it as an excuse to affiliate myself with a cultural event of which I have little or no understanding that has religious connotations even though I haven't been inside a church since last time I went the roof leaked and I got my head wet" hangers-on turn out each year. I suspect with the level of immigration over the last 200 years or so that a great many faces in the North West will have some linkage whether they like it or not - perhaps even Abbey!!

As for this thread, I am disturbed at the vilification of Sinn Fein leaders over the actions of people over whom they have little or no control:

These guys used to advocate direct action in support of their cause

They came to the conclusion their approach was counter-productive to their cause (and they couldn't win)

They changed their minds

They asked for and got a democratic mandate

They are now part of the political mainstream

All the above applies just as strongly to DUP/UDA/INLA/UFF etc etc etc (I'm not an expert on Ulster acronyms)

The point is that they changed their minds - it is allowed - and we should do the same as others with much more reason to take some of the hateful positions seen in this thread. If we continue to trot out the same parameters of debate of 20/30 years ago we simply refuse to accept that those directly involved have moved on and its about time we did the same. All this "never forget never forgive" is the stuff and nonsense that allowed the Armalite to rule the ballot box for too long over there and for annual marches to be seen as points of hatred rather than celebration of cultural history - that's right, history, something that happened, cannot be undone and is there for us to learn lessons from not perpetuate wrongdoing and hatred in the name of.

When I do business with Ulstermen today it makes a refreshing change to be able to discuss the opportunities for the community, the inward investment and the rising house prices than the number of deaths, lack of local government and so on.

As for the post 9/11 reference, I seem to recall this whole process was well underway by 2001 and bears little or no relationship with 9/11

I'm not belittling these murders - I have too much respect for these people, their families and the jobs they were trying to do - but I am saying it is no reason to return to the political environment and debate of the past and should actually be seen as a test of the strength of the new Northern Ireland where what people have said and done in the past has been kept there as their present words and actions are very different and that is all they are judged upon.

Unfortunately, this thread needs to do the same and so far is failing in that respect - If the wife of the murdered policeman can ask that his death not be a waste insofar as it becomes a catalyst for a return to old ways, then I'm sure we can be equally magnaminous and humble.

[ABBEY]

the North West will have some linkage whether they like it or not - perhaps even Abbey!!

perhaps not ,one of my aunties did a tree and theres def not.plastic or not.

[bobsterbrfc]

Some of the posts in this thread are some of the most crigneworthy, upsetting and backwards drivel I have ever read.

"A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing".

[blue phil]

As for the post 9/11 reference, I seem to recall this whole process was well underway by 2001 and bears little or no relationship with 9/11

The process was definitely underway - the Good friday Agreement was in 1998 - but the 9/11 attacks further isolated the idea of terrorism as in any way defensible . It also put paid to the funding from the US for the terrorists and the US governments' indifference to the problem . If the money had still been forthcoming you can guarantee the groups opposed to the peace process would have been larger and had more power . Those involved in the process have frequently emphasised the importance of 9/11 as making Irish terrorism redundant . You're quite correct when you say we have to grit our teeth , put the past behind us , and do business with Adams , McGuiness at al ..

[Drummer Boy]

The process was definitely underway - the Good friday Agreement was in 1998 - but the 9/11 attacks further isolated the idea of terrorism as in any way defensible . It also put paid to the funding from the US for the terrorists and the US governments' indifference to the problem . If the money had still been forthcoming you can guarantee the groups opposed to the peace process would have been larger and had more power . Those involved in the process have frequently emphasised the importance of 9/11 as making Irish terrorism redundant . You're quite correct when you say we have to grit our teeth , put the past behind us , and do business with Adams , McGuiness at al ..

OK - I take your point re: the 9/11 influence; in fact now you've mentioned it I do remember reading reports of a change in attitude in the US to the likes of Noraid post 9/11.

[Billy Castell]

not touched guinness for two years!

Don't blame you, I hate the stuff.

I don't like St. Paddy's day for the above reason, and the fact I am not remotely Irish, or from Boston.

[thenodrog]

Don't blame you, I hate the stuff.

2 Pints of Guinnes is fine and creamy but after 4 it starts to taste bitter and burnt. Anybody know why?

[broadsword]

Is someone spiking your drinks?

I normally find after the tenth pint it doesn't go down as smoothly.

for that matter after that many it doesn't come up that smoothly either.

Don't they char barley to make guinness? Maybe this is what you're tasting?

[JAL]

Adams and McGuiness didn't just use to win elections - they still do. Overwhelmingly so in fact. Sinn Féin is currently the second most popular party in NI.

The loyalist DUP which were around then and are still around now is hardly known for it's soft stance either - it's the most popular party in NI.

Who are these alternatives which you say the electorate now sees, as they don't seem to be voting for them?

Incidentally as to your history aside, it's worth noting that interestingly Hilter and the Nazi's never received a majority vote by the German people in a general election.

Jonnolad, a rumour going round is that these 'real IRA people' are men who've been released from prison recently, found that their ex-superiors were all living comfortable running businesses etc., whilst they, who did the dirty work had nothing, no money but only anger and resentment.

It seems like one sad one way ticket for these guys.

[jim mk2]

Jonnolad, a rumour going round is that these 'real IRA people' are men who've been released from prison recently, found that their ex-superiors were all living comfortable running businesses etc., whilst they, who did the dirty work had nothing, no money but only anger and resentment.

So they take it out on the British lads instead of wiping out their "superiors ", aka IRA terrorist scum ? Explain that one please.

[JAL]

So they take it out on the British lads instead of wiping out their "superiors ", aka IRA terrorist scum ? Explain that one please.

Have'nt got a clue 'jim mk2'. It just looks like everyone has moved on except these.

[thenodrog]

Have'nt got a clue 'jim mk2'. It just looks like everyone has moved on except these.

So better not let any more of the bugggers out eh? Sorted.

[broadsword]

Ah, but if you kept them in prison it would ruin the "peace" process!

What?

[joey_big_nose]

I am not quite sure what people want here. The murder of the two soldiers and the policeman were abhorrennt. The perpetrators need to be caught and punished. Sinn Fein have utterly condemned them also. It is sad, but there is no sign of the stability of NI being affected. Everybody is standing behind peace.

I'm not a huge fan of clear murderers such as McGuiness and Adams being the spokesmen for Republicanism in NI but they have reformed and they are elected. They have come out against the assassinations very strongly. I am unsure what more they could reasonably have done.

The transformation into peace of NI over the last fifteen years has been one of the great achievements on these islands in the modern period. And whilst the murders are a desperately sad tragedy, the way the aftermath has unfolded has actually been quite encouraging.

Incidentally, a lot of the peace process was built on mutual wealth creation so it will be interesting to see how things develop when the economy is poorer and jobs are lost. I personally think things will hold together well. But we shall see.

[American]

Not to veer this off topic (which usually precedes the topic being veered), but for those against McGuiness and Adams being allowed to be elected officials despite having been terrorists, that sounds a lot like Netanyahu in Israel.

[jim mk2]

Murdering Ira scum - hopefully Colin Duffy will be convicted and spend the rest of his miserable life behind bars.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7967147.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7967680.stm

[thenodrog]

Murdering Ira scum - hopefully Colin Duffy will be convicted and spend the rest of his miserable life behind bars.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7967147.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7967680.stm

Another for the rope imo.

[jim mk2]

Another for the rope imo.

No. Life imprisonment for the Fenian swine with the occasional good kicking from his fellow inmates.

[Rovermatt]

Honestly Jim, you need stop using that word. It is highly offensive.

[leftfooter]

Honestly Jim, you need stop using that word. It is highly offensive.

Agreed.

The term sw**e is highly innappropriate and disparaging toward pigs.