[Archived] Knee Trouble? Acl Surgery Anyone?

[1864roverite]

Back to basics with the NHS, the current waiting list for MRI scans for knee injuries is reaching 27 weeks !!

Luckily for me, the Surgeon placed me on a private list and I had an MRI scan Saturday with the results out in 3 weeks.

Expecting further knee surgery later this year. Hoping to achieve cartilige regrowth around the centre of my knee which might just allow me to get back to playing golf.

[Oklahoma]

27 weeks?!?!?!

Thank god for the insurance we have. I had an MRI on my knee 3 days after I visited the doctor for the first time and I knew the results one week later.

[Presty On Tour]

Had my stitches out at the wound clinic this morning and had my 1st physio therapy session in hospital this afternoon. Knee is still swollen and the scars look cool imo, got some X's and a some line's on the knee and a fairly large line just below the knee going down to the shin. Plus the others from the first surgery back in December.

The physio lady Vicky was alright, just checked it out to feel everything was solid and gave me some exercises to do which I've been doing already. Really wanted to hit the gym but she wouldn't let me. Have to take it easy, do the exercises and she reckons I'll be off the crutches in 2 weeks, a few days before Ireland

[Presty On Tour]

Progress update:

Dropped to one crutch last week and managed to successfully walk this week without any crutches. Unfortunately my knee hasn't got much strength and gets tired very quickly, therefore I'll be taking one crutch to Ireland for support. I'm slightly gutted but looking on the bright side, in this case one is better than two.

[Darth Paul]

Going in for my knee op today after snapping it playing football in September! 9 months of pain, bloody NHS!

[1864roverite]

Best of luck Darth, enjoy a pain free recovery

[Oklahoma]

Hope all went well, Darth!

Hope you have a fast and full recovery.

I changed phisio clinic after the first month.

The one I am now is specialized in sports. Hurts more but it will heal faster.

And I can bend my knee totally now.

[Darth Paul]

Thanks guys, just got home, things were a bit more complicated than they thought but all went well. Morphine was fun though!!!

[benhben]

Morphine was fun though!!!

I love morphine. Made a double broken leg and a dislocated ankle seem like a happy time haha

im sure im abit addicted, after 4 or 5 doses ive been wanting it ever since lol

[Darth Paul]

Turns out now, after 9 months of pain, x-rays and MRI scans, where I was categorically told there was no cruciate ligament damage, in fact there is and I have to go in for another op!

Do I have any option of taking action against the NHS for this or is it just tough luck? I have really suffered for 9 months and have been making my knee worse by walking on it and am looking at another 6 - 9 months recovery time.

Anyone had a similar experience?

[tcj_jones]

That must be absolutely devastating, Paul. I can't say I know where you stand legally, but I can, to a certain extent, empathize with your situation.

I've suffered from back problems (sponylolisthesis, Scheuermann's disease, degenerative and bulging L5 /S1 disc with bilateral pars defects etc) that have prevented me from playing any kind of sport for about sixteen months now. I have been misled, misdiagnosed and mistreated - in some cases criminally - and am only just beginning to get the right treatment. That's because I researched and sought out the very best men in the field. However, I am fortunate enough to have family health insurance and a family who can afford to support me financially.

About six years ago, I also had an operation where the surgeon dismissed alternative treatments and methods out of hand in order to get me into his operating theatre and perform what I later found out to be a very dated procedure. He led me to believe that it would definitely solve the problem, yet after some horrific scarring (lucikly somewhere on my body out of view) and months spent healing, the problem came back. In retrospect, I wish I had sued the @#/?. I remember breaking down into tears in his presence (I was only sixteen) and him laughing at me!

Personally, I definitely think that you should explore your options. No matter what your profession, you should be held accountable for the mistakes that you make.

[Darth Paul]

Thanks TCJ, my situation sounds nowhere near as traumatic as yours but it is very frustrating. I really only got the op as I kept insisting I was in pain but they said i was fine. Since then i am sure I have made things worse by going for the odd kick about and generally not treating my knee in the way it should have been under the circumstances.

I hate the way society has become so litigous and dont like the idea of going round suing everyone for anything, but the impact the injury has had on my life over the past 9 months is immense. Lack of sleep and being irritable with my kids being two of these problems, but not being able to exercise properly or get down on the floor to play games with my lads has got me down too. To know that this should have been sorted ages ago does annoy me. I waited 9 months for the first op but now they know the extent of my injury it is in their own words an "emergency" and they are operating within 2 weeks!

There are many, many people worse off than me but not being able to play football for a year plus, if ever again is pretty devastating.

[tcj_jones]

I don't think that my experience is necessarily any more traumatic than yours, Paul, and I sincerely hope that you make a full and speedy recovery.

I know exactly where you're coming from. I'll never be able to prove anything but, with my back, I know that the two physios I saw misled me in order to get more money out of me, I'm damned well sure of it. The first was so incompetent that she was still doing pressure point massage mid way up my back, when the problem was clearly originating from my small and from what was clearly a disc related problem, eight months after first seeing me! The second identified immediately that it was a buldging disc, but never thought to even mention this to me, passing it off as if it was just a minor issue that could easily be sorted.

It sounds as though you've suffered a lot. The stress, depression, anxiety, pain, the stomach related problems and the sleep disorders that I've developed etc etc have had a big impact on the decisions I've made and the actions I've taken. It's all had a massive impact on my life and especially my uni course. I could have come to terms with my limitations and started to properly address the issue a year ago or more if I were properly advised.

Anyways, I'm rambling. I do hope things go smoothly and never take 'no' for an answer. Maybe during your post-op recovery would be a good time to look into where you stand legally?

All the best.

[1864roverite]

DP

have you considered having a second opinion with a nominated surgeon ? You do have that right under the current NHS Ambition and mission statement.

Having been through 9 operations on my knee and awaiting further surgery, I appealed as I wasnt happy with the outcome and decision that my knee was right when it clearly wasnt. I ended up seeing a surgeon in Cheshire, who read my notes, opened the knee up and found the problems. He sorted out that particular issue but now since my last operation in August 2008 I have now got a further ligament problem and snags with the knee bone crumbling on the upper knee (caused by the lack of cartilidge).

The NHS have now agrred to try PICKS surgery - seperating the knee joint and "stabbing" the bones to make it bleed with a view to regenerating new cartilidge through the centre of the knee which might bring full movement back. I have today received my appointment to discuss the operation and to set a date for it, so, hopefully and fingers crossed things may look good AFTER the burnley game .

Should all that fail, its a new cruciate and medial ligament, a top rate "new generation" knee rebuild and 12 months rehab.

[herbergeehh]

Progress update:

Dropped to one crutch last week and managed to successfully walk this week without any crutches. Unfortunately my knee hasn't got much strength and gets tired very quickly, therefore I'll be taking one crutch to Ireland for support. I'm slightly gutted but looking on the bright side, in this case one is better than two.

Best of luck, mate! I've had five or six knee ops myself: Repairing meniscus, then removing meniscus, and later on reorganizing a few bones and muscles because I kept dislocating my knee cap. The only advice I would give you is to keep on doing those boring exercises as much as you can, because re-building the muscles around the knee is absolutely imperative. It will make it feel better at some point, and it's the only way to avoid further injuries. I wish I'd done better, at 23 I'm still unable to play football two days in a row.

[Darth Paul]

DP

have you considered having a second opinion with a nominated surgeon ? You do have that right under the current NHS Ambition and mission statement.

Having been through 9 operations on my knee and awaiting further surgery, I appealed as I wasnt happy with the outcome and decision that my knee was right when it clearly wasnt. I ended up seeing a surgeon in Cheshire, who read my notes, opened the knee up and found the problems. He sorted out that particular issue but now since my last operation in August 2008 I have now got a further ligament problem and snags with the knee bone crumbling on the upper knee (caused by the lack of cartilidge).

The NHS have now agrred to try PICKS surgery - seperating the knee joint and "stabbing" the bones to make it bleed with a view to regenerating new cartilidge through the centre of the knee which might bring full movement back. I have today received my appointment to discuss the operation and to set a date for it, so, hopefully and fingers crossed things may look good AFTER the burnley game .

Should all that fail, its a new cruciate and medial ligament, a top rate "new generation" knee rebuild and 12 months rehab.

To be honest I haven't but having had the surgery I will see how it goes and bear it in mind, cheers. It is so easy with doctors to just fall into the trap of accepting everything they say without question...

Just as an update to anyone who is interested, (and I totally understand that you probably aren't - I am just so bored that I have nothing better to do - see below!) the op went ok but my knee cap split when they were removing the ligament between my patella and tibia with which the cruciate hasbeen replaced. Hobbling about on crutches and bored to death.

[1864roverite]

Thought I would just slip one in on this topic.

Been to the head Shed at RPH today for the final appeal on my knee and the way forward, NOT good news for me

Been told that the latest x-rays and mri scan reveal some serious shortage of cartlige through the centre of my knee and that there is damage to the knee cap. A piece of bone has reattached itself to the edge of the upper knee and this has caused some wear and tear to the lower bone, tendons and ligaments.

I now have to undergo a series of CYNVISC (sp) injections for 12 months as well as having to have the peice of bone removed to see if it will allow some more movement in the joint as it wont bend back as are as to allow me to ride a bike. So, at tsome point it is yet another arthroscopy (number 10) which will again cause more aggravation for my injured knee.

The injections, if they work, will be reviewed every 12-18 months before I need the whole knee taking out and replacing.

Hopefully, the knee will last in its present state for 3 more years taking me to the ripe old age of 45 (and a half) and then enhancement to a full pension pay off. (thee always has to be a silve rlining ).

[tcj_jones]

Jesus Christ, you poor guy. I hope it sorts itself out in some capacity ASAP.

Out of interest, my mate did something to his meniscus yesterday. He doesn't get to see a surgeon for 10 days (unbelievable) so we don't know exactly what he's done, but it looks bad. He was in agony. Basically, while running, his knee suddenly clicked and locked. Even the slightest feather of a touch of jolt and he was wincing (and he's a big bloke).

Does anybody know much about meniscus injuries and how long the lay off can be? I've read six weeks without surgery, but four months + after.

[1864roverite]

That sounds like a straightforward cartlige tear (if there is one that is). Its very painful but the knee will unlock after a while.

Once he has seen the doctor he will be in within 2 weeks as there are no waiting lists for such operations.

Dont wish the knee pain on anyone, good luck to your mate.

[1864roverite]

Been into hospital today for the first 2 injections in my knee. JHC they bloody hurt !

Had the first 2 of 4 injections into the right knee and have to say that aprt from the initial pain my knee seems to have a little more movement.

Can most definately say the injections are the worst I have ever had. But the pain will be worth it if they last 6-12 months.

[Presty On Tour]

Sounds rough pal, hope it all works out.

My update is I've finished with physio therapy at the hospital and have moved to the new sports centre complex on the gp referral scheme. I have my own personal trainer and access to all the facilities including gym, swimming pool, jacuzzi, sauna etc all for a £1 a session.

I can go as many times as I like for the next 16 weeks. The personal trainer is very helpful as he had my records from the hospital, done some tests like bmi, lung capacity, weight etc and wrote up a program schedule and diet for me. I report back once a week and make progress changes. I have also been advised to do palates classes!!!! I know they are for women but apparently its good for the knee so I'll give it a shot. Can't be bad in a room full of women stretching around anyway.

I kicked my first ball the other week, admittedly it was a tennis ball the as my dog dropped it right in front of me for a shot and I couldn't resist. No bad reaction from the knee but as for my face as my dog dived to his right to catch the ball from going into the top corner of the imaginary goal was grrrrrrrr.

So for the next 16 weeks, 4-5 times a week it's

gym

sauna

pool

jacuzzi

pub

Oh and exercise bikes with telly's on the handle bars! Thumbs up!

[tcj_jones]

Great to hear you're both progressing, albeit at differing rates.

After a year and three months out of playing any kind of sport, I was eventually diagnosed with Scheuerman's disease, Spondylosis and as having a bulging L5-S1 disc with bilateral pars defects. I had just 40 degrees of movement in my right hamstring and 60 degrees in my left (my right is my kicking leg). The guy I first saw told me I'd never play football competitively again, that I'd have to be careful for the rest of my life when doing anything strenuous etc etc. I fell to pieces, starting drinking quite heavily and became extremely depressed.

That's when I decided to stop wallowing in self pity and get my problems sorted out. I sort out one of the world's leading back specialists, John Sutcliffe, who referred me to Paul Ankers, a sports rehabilitation expert who has years of experience with top professsionals such as Steffi Graff and Lance Armstrong alongside Premier League footballers, while working in coordination with the Miami Dolphins. Meeting these two has been one of the most beneficial experiences of my life.

Paul set me on a core strengthening programme focusing on strengthening my abdominal muscles, building my glutes up and stretching out my hamstrings. Six days a week in the pool, increasing from around 30-45mins a day to 2hrs 15mins has meant that my core is now extremely strong. Four months on I play football competitively on Sundays (playing CM and probably covering the most ground in the whole team), I train on Thursdays, I've just started doing weights twice a week and I'm trying to push in another form of cardio on a Tuesday (running in the swimming pool atm, then onto a cross trainer, and then onto running on solid ground).

I will always have to protect my back and there is a very good chance that I will injure it again, but the last four months is testament to what hard graft can achieve. My quality of life has improved tremendously. Since getting into this programme, my diet has transformed into that of high performance sportsman and I'm gettin leaner and leaner. I have absolutely no desire to go out and get ###### and my confidence is growing all the time.

[tcj_jones]

Grrr, after making such amazing progress, I now find myself with another injury problem.

Due to a tilted pelvis, I have had problems with a bulging L5-S1 disc with bi-laterial patrs defects and tight hamstrings. I over-came this and went on to become one of my Sunday League's best and fittest players.

However, due to the pelvic problem, I now have patellar tracking disorder in both knees and it's causing me some discomfort. I am seeing one of the world's leading rehabilitation experts right now and he insists I'm making good progress. However, I'm terrified that one small slip and I could do my meniscus or my MCL.

Anybody had any problems with their patellar tracking?

[1864roverite]

Anyone think we can form our own splinter group ? (literally??)

[tcj_jones]

Haha, ever think that you might be cursed? It's crossed my mind.

Guess when you're injured you just have to find something to focus on while you're out of action and think positively. I'm gonna use this opportunity to work on my upper body. I wonder how long it'll take before my old shoulder injury re-occurs! Hopefully long enough for my knees to heal haha.