[Archived] Burglar Killed

[Flopsy]

im dreadfully sorry we didnt know yould read widely on the subject, what with you not mentioning it and just posting the Beebs by numbers report. im still slightly at a loss why anyones colour is relevant to this case unless the victims were targeted because of their colour. If it wasnt, then its irrelevant.

by the lack of shouting in the press, im guessing that its fairly cut and dried. As somone who is following this closely, have any charges been pressed?

[USABlue]

Personally I believe you should be ok to protect your property. I feel more for the homeowner than the burglar. What should the homeowner do? It could have been the other way round so surely he is only protecting himself?

If they are in my house in the midst of night (or day for that matter) and they weren't invited, BANG they're dead.

Unfortunately there are too many laws that protect the perpetrators of these crimes, we must protect their rights. Sorry but I believe they lose all rights as soon as they come in my home to steal from me, or worse. If they did not do the crime they would not get shot (or stabbed in this case), seems quite simple to me really.

[adopted scouser]

Don't be silly. That's far too much like common sense. An Englishman's home is his castle yadda yadda yadda....

I rarely feel compelled to post about anything these days but this display of naivety is colossal.

ANY scumbag entering a person's private property deliberately leaves all rights and privileges outside the property's demise. Full Stop.

I'm guessing your not that old.

[thenodrog]

im dreadfully sorry we didnt know yould read widely on the subject, what with you not mentioning it and just posting the Beebs by numbers report. im still slightly at a loss why anyones colour is relevant to this case unless the victims were targeted because of their colour. If it wasnt, then its irrelevant.

by the lack of shouting in the press, im guessing that its fairly cut and dried. As somone who is following this closely, have any charges been pressed?

Smarmy git! I've told you I've only quoted the press articles. In the meantime you just keep skirting the central issues and concentrate on the trivial. It suits you better than taxing your intellect with anything important I guess.

Flopsy you obviously are out to persistently antagonise me to react. So

1. Why?

and

2. Given your frequent bullying and goading actions do you consider your position as moderator is tenable? If you want to moderate then moderate whilst if you want to simply join the discussions then do so as a member. As it is whilst trying to do both you are simply exhibiting a typical 'Small man Big Desk' persona. Where you bullied at school by any chance?

[USABlue]

ANY scumbag entering a person's private property deliberately leaves all rights and privileges outside the property's demise. Full Stop.

I wish I could have put it that well but that is what I meant. It's a fair deterrent if it is in your mind that the crime you are about to commit may cost you your life.

[Hughesy]

ANY scumbag entering a person's private property deliberately leaves all rights and privileges outside the property's demise. Full Stop.

Spot on. Exactly the way I feel, If I was to find someone in my house then I would not be accountable for my actions.

Its happened once and the smack-head took a hammering for it, if id of killed him, then that was just tough luck - it wasnt intent to kill but any blow could have resulted in it - thats just his bad luck, he shouldnt of entered a no-go area.

Like adopted and USA say is you take that risk to break in, then you lose all your rights. It should be that simple. Homeowners should be allowed guns like in the U.S to protect what is private property!

[bellamy11]

Homeowners should be allowed guns like in the U.S to protect what is private property!

Yes, everyone should have guns - that will solve everything!

[Rovermatt]

Homeowners should be allowed guns like in the U.S to protect what is private property!

[gazsimm]

Spot on. Exactly the way I feel, If I was to find someone in my house then I would not be accountable for my actions.

Homeowners should be allowed guns like in the U.S to protect what is private property!

If that happend we would be all doomed!!!

[Hughesy]

It would make people think before entering a property if the homeowner is allowed to protect what is theres with a gun!

[Flopsy]

Smarmy git! I've told you I've only quoted the press articles. In the meantime you just keep skirting the central issues and concentrate on the trivial. It suits you better than taxing your intellect with anything important I guess.

Flopsy you obviously are out to persistently antagonise me to react. So

1. Why?

and

2. Given your frequent bullying and goading actions do you consider your position as moderator is tenable? If you want to moderate then moderate whilst if you want to simply join the discussions then do so as a member. As it is whilst trying to do both you are simply exhibiting a typical 'Small man Big Desk' persona. Where you bullied at school by any chance?

asking questions is bullying and goading? Bless

You mentioned the trival point, i asked what it had to do with the story, you get all upset. Methinks you doth protest too much.

As for defending your home, i dont think a shoot to kill policy should be implemented, i think you'll find the law is now on the homeowners side as long as reasonable force is used to protect yourself, others or property. If scrote is legging it through the window, they are no longer a threat. If they turn back then take them out. But as for guns in the home, a lot more kids will be killed and injured by their parents guns, than will ever be hurt by, or involved in a break in.

Scouse, as an ex copper, are burgalaries investigated throurghly, or ignored usualy?

[Rovermatt]

It would make people think before entering a property if the homeowner is allowed to protect what is theres with a gun!

So burglaries aren't really a problem in the US then?

[adopted scouser]

Scouse, as an ex copper, are burgalaries investigated throurghly, or ignored usualy?

That was a long time ago, but burglars were locked up on a regular basis and property recovered. More property was also seized following a search then tied up with tic's.

After targets were introduced more and more other stealings (ie "someone's nicked me purse") were actually recorded as lost property rather than getting crimed.

A combination of electrical goods so cheap they could be bought in the supermarket, plus cheap contents insurance via the web, and the process of detection (I would imagine) is aimed higher than the domestic market.

Senior Coppers turned into 'Managers' at Northgate, and many experienced members of CID took early retirement and went to work for the DSS. (It didn't help when one of the 'Managers' sent a whole prosecution file back to a Detective Sergeant because it had the wrong paper fastener holding it together)

[bellamy11]

It would make people think before entering a property if the homeowner is allowed to protect what is theres with a gun!

If I walked round the streets with a gun I'd be a lot more able to defend myself in case I was mugged. Can you not see what the problem is here?

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

It would make people think before entering a property if the homeowner is allowed to protect what is theres with a gun!

Yeah! Yeah!

Oh wait. America.

Nevermind.

[broadsword]

You don't need a gun to protect what's your's.

A bloody great big stick will do.

This is in danger of becoming a real vigilante thread.

You have to use proportionate force. In other words, you must proportionately kick ten shades of you-know-what out of someone.

[tony gale's mic]

I rarely feel compelled to post about anything these days but this display of naivety is colossal.

ANY scumbag entering a person's private property deliberately leaves all rights and privileges outside the property's demise. Full Stop.

I'm guessing your not that old.

Or let's turn it round - just because someone is in your house, it means that you have the right to end their life?

What a load of utter horses**t.

IF someone is clearly armed with a life threatening weapon, then fair enough you can act in self-preservation (but even then if armed with a gun you should aim at their legs or somewhere less likely to cause fatal injury). If there's no apparent threat of this though, then you have absolutely NO right to take their life. The state has no right under the law to take the life of burglars, so why should you? "Reasonable force" is fair enough. Like I said, in this case it's best to wait till the facts come out to make a judgement about whether the homeowner was in the wrong here. How you can argue with that is beyond me.

Whoever says that we should have levels of gun ownership like the USA should go look at their gun crime statistics. Thank god we don't have a gun culture like that in the States.

[Rovermatt]

Say a burglar is in your house, yet has no intention of harming you. He'll make a run for it first chance he gets. His sole motivation is to nick your car keys, your TV, your computer, whatever. Should a property owner be entitled to kill that person simply because he is trespassing on their property and threatening their possessions?

[adopted scouser]

Or let's turn it round - just because someone is in your house, it means that you have the right to end their life?

What a load of utter horses**t.

IF someone is clearly armed with a life threatening weapon, then fair enough you can act in self-preservation (but even then if armed with a gun you should aim at their legs or somewhere less likely to cause fatal injury). If there's no apparent threat of this though, then you have absolutely NO right to take their life. The state has no right under the law to take the life of burglars, so why should you? "Reasonable force" is fair enough. Like I said, in this case it's best to wait till the facts come out to make a judgement about whether the homeowner was in the wrong here. How you can argue with that is beyond me.

Whoever says that we should have levels of gun ownership like the USA should go look at their gun crime statistics. Thank god we don't have a gun culture like that in the States.

When did I mention killing or gun ownership ? When did I mention taking a life ? Hardly horsesh*t at all if you read the post properly.

Anyone who breaks into my property or enters unlawfully whilst members of my family are asleep is going down, with more than reasonable force (if they are lucky)

[thenodrog]

You don't need a gun to protect what's your's.

A bloody great big stick will do.

This is in danger of becoming a real vigilante thread.

You have to use proportionate force. In other words, you must proportionately kick ten shades of you-know-what out of someone.

I'm not really in favour of guns in every house. btw they are as much good as a chocolate teapot because the law is very definite and instructs that they must be kept in a gun cabinet with the bullets elsewhere .... and be warned Plod do carry out regular spot checks to make sure that you are sticking to the letter of the law, as opposed of course to the crummy low lifes that come to rob!

A pick axe handle is much more serviceable and less regulated BUT everybody talks easily about leathering some skinny druggy youth to within an inch of his life but what happens if......

a. There are 2 or 3 of em?

b. They have pick axe handles too?

c. He / they are well hard big @#/?s that will swat you down like a bug?

And those are not the worst case scenario either, just imagine ...

d. You are on the stairs confronted by evil scum with your wife and small kids upstairs and defenceless if you are overpowered? You'd want that gun then for sure.

[RovertheHill]

I believe there is already a facebook tribute page to the "fallen solja". Don't know if it is a spoof but somehow I doubt it. Interesting indeed

Apparently they've now been pulled due to the abuse being posted - link here

[adopted scouser]

Apparently they've now been pulled due to the abuse being posted - link here

Where's his f***ing banjo ?!

[1864roverite]

Spot on. Exactly the way I feel, If I was to find someone in my house then I would not be accountable for my actions.

Unfortunately, YOU ARE ACCOUNTABLE for your actions. The laws currenrly reflect this in order to protect the homeowner. You simply cannot dish out punishment as you see fit, you have to use the appropriate level of violence that the situation deserves and you have to be able to justify it. So, for example, if billy buglar comes at you with a knife you have the right to use the required amount of violence to suppress that threat, if it means killing him and it is justified then so be it.

Scouse, as an ex copper, are burglaries investigated thourghly, or ignored usually?

I will answer that one and can tell you that burglary dwelling offences are a priority crime. In fact it is the most investigated crime in the country followed closely by robbery. The laws again have been amended to ensure burglary offenders get their just rewards. The 3 strike rule applies and this is what burglary offenders are most fearful of.

A bloody great big stick will do.

This is in danger of becoming a real vigilante thread.

You have to use proportionate force. In other words, you must proportionately kick ten shades of you-know-what out of someone.

See above - althoug vigilantism is deemed an appropriate punishment or an alternative to the punishment dished out by a court, you will find that any sort of vigilantism is punished more severely than the original offender.

Say a burglar is in your house, yet has no intention of harming you. He'll make a run for it first chance he gets. His sole motivation is to nick your car keys, your TV, your computer, whatever. Should a property owner be entitled to kill that person simply because he is trespassing on their property and threatening their possessions?

You have no authority to kill ANYONE. Any force you use in protecting your own property has to be justified and proportionate to the situation otherwise you will find yourself being prosecuted for a charge of murder or manslaughter or at the very least assault.

[broadsword]

A pick axe handle is much more serviceable and less regulated BUT everybody talks easily about leathering some skinny druggy youth to within an inch of his life but what happens if......

a. There are 2 or 3 of em?

b. They have pick axe handles too?

c. He / they are well hard big @#/?s that will swat you down like a bug?

And those are not the worst case scenario either, just imagine ...

d. You are on the stairs confronted by evil scum with your wife and small kids upstairs and defenceless if you are overpowered? You'd want that gun then for sure.

True, I have to admit I wouldn't be so inclined to start rucking if there's 2 or 3 and they're big boys, but how often does that happen? Burglars normally work alone, no?

I can't imagine how awful it must feel to be burgled. But to be quite honest with you, I'm the world's heaviest sleeper, so I might not even know it had happened until the morning.

But agreed, it's all very easy to say how you'd do X, Y and Z if you were burgled, buit you might feel a bit different if it really happened.

[Paul]

Interesting responses in here. If I confronted a burglar and he showed signs of running I'd let him run. If he threatened me with violence, knife, gun or whatever and demanded the car keys I'd give them to him. Anybody who "has a go" at an armed criminal is stupid, what do you own that is worth more than your life? If said intruder was threatening violence on or attacking my wife or children that would be a diffferent matter. Too much testosterone knocking about in my view.