[Archived] Burglar Killed

[Hughesy]

Normal everyday objects can be pretty lethal.

If you sprayed a can of deoderant in someone's eyes, they'd know about it.

ESPECIALLY if you lit the spray while you was doing it!!

I'd use my swiss army knife, but it would take too long to get the right attachment out.

Ha ha, what if you choose the tooth pick instead of the blade.

[Flopsy]

that magnifying glass will sort them out

[broadsword]

Don't laugh there's some right nasty looking bits in it.

[rosie]

Normal everyday objects can be pretty lethal.

If you sprayed a can of deoderant in someone's eyes, they'd know about it.

Or jabbing someone under the chin with a rolled up magazine.

Bryan, I like your suggestions. The spray can is a top idea. I'll keep one of them under my bed in future. I must admit it worries me what I'd do as a parent frequently alone with 3 small children but the idea of using a weapon which I've no idea how to use effectively, and could be turned on me, doesn't appeal. Frankly, if they're gonna break in I'd rather a) I wasn't in, or we slept through it and they left us to do that. However, I respect the fact that that does NOT always happen and have friends who have suffered burglaries in which they have been tied up and blindfolded as part of the ordeal.

Quite a few years ago, my parents' house was burgled when I was staying there with my oldest daughter. We didn't hear anything and I have to say, thank goodness. They stole a (Volvo V70) car, a (very precious for sentimental reasons) Mexican rug (which we've never recovered, threw other car keys in random places in the garden (which we eventually found), a tv, a cd player and 2 vcrs (rather one - they dropped one on the drive). The car was found near Blackburn. I remember feeling really sick and very panicked once I'd realised what had happened and to this day, don't enjoy spending the night alone, just in case.

[tony gale's mic]

I was going to reply to the topic, but once again I've decided against it, as I've realised that all you want to do is argue and not see others points.

Enjoy finding a life as a body plumber. An MB.BS means bugger all if you have little concept of living in the everyday world.

Why do you feel the need to bring up what I'm going to do? It seems to be a habit of you and various people on this forum. But since we're on it..."Body plumber" - alright Dave - why not you try getting into medical school and getting through the course. I'm sure a man of your high calibre would find it a doddle. And without wanting to go into too many details, I have more than enough experience of living in the everyday world thankyou. You know absolutely nothing about me apart from the fact I'm shortly going to be a doctor, something I've only ever brought up of my own accord about twice on here in passing but something I'm justifiably quite proud of. So I see no real need why you should feel the need to bring that up and make those assumptions....or actually I do....

I suspect you didn't reply to the actual points because you realised how insanely stupid your argument was. I did acknowledge your point that one punch can in very isolated cases kill someone. But to say that someone punching someone is comparable to someone stabbing them is still ridiculous. How can you say the murderous intent in a punch is just the same as that in a stab?!

You think if a man gets provoked by someone in any situation, his murderous intent is realistically the same as if he punches him to if he stabs him? Hughesy said that "if you are prepared to punch you are running the same risk of death" - I shouldn't even need to say why this is utterly wrong. How do you expect me not to argue against people when they such ridiculous things?

But no, just to make you happy...I see your point. If I hit someone then it's CLEARLY very comparable to if I stab them. Is that better for you?

And in reply to Hughesy - I've said repeatedly that we should wait until we hear the facts of this case. IF the thieves were directly attacking/attacking the homeowner at the time then as I have said time and time again it's a lot more understandable the homeowner would take the action he did. However, if they weren't armed and if they were at a safe distance then I should imagine for most robbers the sight of a knife would force them to flee and there'd be no need whatsoever for the homeowner to stab them. There's all sorts of other possibilities here too:

a) They could have been armed with knives too but didn't want to get in a knife fight once they saw him brandishing one so fled

B ) They were armed and went after the guy with their knives

c) One of them had a gun...

Those are just three things that may have happened, and in each case the justification for stabbing the intruder differs vastly (well not so much for B and C).

IF whilst fleeing the homeowner went after them and stabbed them when they were trying to get away, that's when he would be very much in the wrong.

But maybe these robbers did have knives too, or maybe they just went after the homeowner and he stuck his knife out in self defence not knowing if they were armed or not. We just don't know the facts of the case which is why we should wait until they come out before we make these ridiculous sweeping judgements that the homeowner was right to commit what may well be classed as murder depending on the circumstances.

[SouthAussieRover]

On a lighter note my son appeared with a didgereedoo in his hand when he thought I was an intruder.

I'm not sure whether he planned to play a tune with it or swing it

Personally I have a cricket bat close to hand.

[tony gale's mic]

Thats all he ever does, if you have a different point of view out come the insults.

I would hate to be a patient of his!

No, if I have a different point of view I usually write out a reasoned argument. Feel free to point out the insults in that reply to Dave's post which irritated him so much. If I get a little miffed by what someone says I might slip something in, but it's always additional and not in lieu of an actual argument.

I would hate you to be my patient because you'd be the sort of person who'd be far too dim to follow my simple instructions.

[thenodrog]

Anyway you havent answered this...........

"Seriously TGM if there's someone coming up your stairs in the dark would you pick up a loaded shotgun, a cavalry sword thats hanging on a beam, a bedroom stool or a feather duster when the adrenalin is kicking in? I'd suggest that you'd follow the above order, in fact you'd be stupid not to. "

Think carefully it might end up the last decision that you will ever make. Are you and yours going to be safe or sorry?

I would hate you to be my patient because you'd be the sort of person who'd be far too dim to follow my simple instructions.

You say Yoda's dim? It appears tony gales mic that you are too dim to answer a question that I have now addressed to you twice.

[tony gale's mic]

You say Yoda's dim? It appears tony gales mic that you are too dim to answer a question that I have now addressed to you twice.

Seems like you should probably take lessons in reading. While I didn't respond directly to that, me saying (rather more than two times) that the circumstances should dictate how we judge this man's actions should have been an answer enough. This hypothetical scenario you're creating is only relevant if this is what actually transpired. We don't know if the man was attacking fleeing robbers, whether he was acting in self defence, we know nothing. The whole thing I said which some people took issue with is that we should wait and see what the facts were before making a judgement.

If I was in that situation I would pick up the nearest thing that I could find. However, if I was in my room chances are there wouldn't be a knife in there either way. If, for arguments' sake I did pick up a knife (that just happened to be in my room), I'd be very mindful of the fact I was holding a lethal weapon..yes adrenaline can have varying influences but it doesn't automatically mean it will override all other actions. How I reacted next would be down to a multitude of different factors mostly depending on how under threat I believed I was, which in turn would be largely dependent on the initial reaction of the burglar. If the initial reaction was to come towards me after seeing the knife, I think I'd strike out to defend myself. If it was to turn and flee, the fear factor would be decreased. You can say there's no 100% way of predicting how you could actually react, and this would be right. But the actions of adrenaline in these situations is largely an evolutionary thing and once the threat diminishes so should the actions of the adrenaline.

But either way, this split second scenario is just one of the possible ones. The burglar(s) may have come at the homeowner with weapons etc which would have made him entirely justified. Or alternatively they could have been trying to flee in which case it wouldn't have been justified.

[yoda]

Seems like you should probably take lessons in reading. While I didn't respond directly to that, me saying (rather more than two times) that the circumstances should dictate how we judge this man's actions should have been an answer enough. This hypothetical scenario you're creating is only relevant if this is what actually transpired. We don't know if the man was attacking fleeing robbers, whether he was acting in self defence, we know nothing. The whole thing I said which some people took issue with is that we should wait and see what the facts were before making a judgement.

If I was in that situation I would pick up the nearest thing that I could find. However, if I was in my room chances are there wouldn't be a knife in there either way. If, for arguments' sake I did pick up a knife (that just happened to be in my room), I'd be very mindful of the fact I was holding a lethal weapon..yes adrenaline can have varying influences but it doesn't automatically mean it will override all other actions. How I reacted next would be down to a multitude of different factors mostly depending on how under threat I believed I was, which in turn would be largely dependent on the initial reaction of the burglar. If the initial reaction was to come towards me after seeing the knife, I think I'd strike out to defend myself. If it was to turn and flee, the fear factor would be decreased. You can say there's no 100% way of predicting how you could actually react, and this would be right. But the actions of adrenaline in these situations is largely an evolutionary thing and once the threat diminishes so should the actions of the adrenaline.

But either way, this split second scenario is just one of the possible ones. The burglar(s) may have come at the homeowner with weapons etc which would have made him entirely justified. Or alternatively they could have been trying to flee in which case it wouldn't have been justified.

when you become a doctor I can see some of your patients croaking while you are still delivering the prognosis

[broadsword]

Seems like you should probably take lessons in reading.

You are one arrogant sod, this is why people bring up the fact that you're going to be a doctor. What a charming bedside manner you have.

Perhaps if you managed to give a response which didn't have a pH of 1, the flak you get would melt away and people would pay more attention to the thrust of what you're actually saying.

[Cocker]

Come on now everyone play nice please and stay on topic.

[thenodrog]

Seems like you should probably take lessons in reading. While I didn't respond directly to that,

If I was in that situation I would pick up the nearest thing that I could find. However, if I was in my room chances are there wouldn't be a knife in there either way. If, for arguments' sake I did pick up a knife (that just happened to be in my room), I'd be very mindful of the fact I was holding a lethal weapon..yes adrenaline can have varying influences but it doesn't automatically mean it will override all other actions. How I reacted next would be down to a multitude of different factors mostly depending on how under threat I believed I was, which in turn would be largely dependent on the initial reaction of the burglar. If the initial reaction was to come towards me after seeing the knife, I think I'd strike out to defend myself. If it was to turn and flee, the fear factor would be decreased. You can say there's no 100% way of predicting how you could actually react, and this would be right. But the actions of adrenaline in these situations is largely an evolutionary thing and once the threat diminishes so should the actions of the adrenaline.

But either way, this split second scenario is just one of the possible ones. The burglar(s) may have come at the homeowner with weapons etc which would have made him entirely justified. Or alternatively they could have been trying to flee in which case it wouldn't have been justified.

1. You think those burglars are sure going to give you a lot of time whilst you prevaricate one way or the othet.

2. "yes adrenaline can have varying influences but it doesn't automatically mean it will override all other actions" Right so couple that with the fact that 10 seconds before you were in a deep sleep. I dont think there is any way that anyone can be expected to make reasoned and valid decisions. The brain must be in a state of confusion. (We've all laughed at the way hypnosis affects individuals in showbiz acts). That being the case guilt can hardly be established with any degree of accuracy, and the law should take that into account.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

You are one arrogant sod, this is why people bring up the fact that you're going to be a doctor. What a charming bedside manner you have.

Perhaps if you managed to give a response which didn't have a pH of 1, the flak you get would melt away and people would pay more attention to the thrust of what you're actually saying.

Add to that the fact that TGM has an opinion on absolutely everything; One can almost be guaranteed that the poster in question will show up if a new thread is opened.

I really don’t know how he/she has the time to train as a doctor, when they spend all day spouting off on message boards. It seems like TGM posts about a 1000 times a day. One bebefit of this ,is that TGM will be extremley comeptent when dealing with patients with acute narcissism .

[Cocker]

Add to that the fact that TGM has an opinion on absolutely everything; One can almost be guaranteed that the poster in question will show up if a new thread is opened.

I really don’t know how he/she has the time to train as a doctor, when they spend all day spouting off on message boards. It seems like TGM posts about a 1000 times a day. One bebefit of this ,is that TGM will be extremley comeptent when dealing with patients with acute narcissism .

Come on now everyone play nice please and stay on topic.

Ok last time. Any further personal attacks will have this thread closed and the member that makes it will have their warning level upped.

[thenodrog]

Ok last time. Any further personal attacks will have this thread closed and the member that makes it will have their warning level upped.

C'mon cocker why are you coming all knight in shining armour now? As far as personal attacks go that comment by bazza was wussy and mildly humerous compared to many on here that go completely unchecked. I'd say TGM might be rather affronted but certainly not insulted by bazza's comment.

[Cocker]

So I add a comment to ask everyone to stay on topic (note everyone and not just Baz) and the one a couple down from that has nothing to do with the topic and is (if mild as you put it) a personal attack.

If anything I have tried to keep the peace here and not gone in with big size 9's handing out warnings - guess this way doesn't work either