[Archived] Rovers International Updates

[RV Blue]

  On 29/05/2018 at 07:59, Blow-in said:

You make him sound like Bitcoin. 

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When you’ve got an asset and it’s value is higher than what it’s worth, you sell it. If we can get £1m or something for him then we should sell as he is worth less than that. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

  On 29/05/2018 at 09:32, RV Blue said:

I’ve seen enough of his to say that he’s nowhere near international quality and he won’t hold down the Ireland position. I beg to differ on him being ‘one of our better players’ as well, he’s a centre half that is too small to play centre half, squad player at best.

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You beg to differ? Well he got player of the season the season before last, so you are in the minority there. Last season whilst his distribution wasn't always perfect, there was no doubt he was solid definsivley. Hence why he is now a full international  

Too small? I am pretty sure plenty of players play in the Premiership at center back whop are the same height

He is competing with Stephen Ward fort he left back position , Rovers v Burnley. Get behind your own player FFS  

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

  On 29/05/2018 at 09:33, RV Blue said:

When you’ve got an asset and it’s value is higher than what it’s worth, you sell it. If we can get £1m or something for him then we should sell as he is worth less than that. 

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Less than 1 million? Come off it. What would we do with that 1 million then? Talk about giving players away...

You do know how much players are going for in the Championship these days? 

[Guest]

  On 29/05/2018 at 09:32, RV Blue said:

I’ve seen enough of his to say that he’s nowhere near international quality and he won’t hold down the Ireland position.

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Are you referring to Brazil or Republic of Ireland here? As it happens, Williams is Irish, so from what they have to choose from, Martin O'Neill would beg to differ with you.

[RV Blue]

  On 29/05/2018 at 09:46, OnePhilT said:

Are you referring to Brazil or Republic of Ireland here? As it happens, Williams is Irish, so from what they have to choose from, Martin O'Neill would beg to differ with you.

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Derrick Williams will 100% not hold down the Irish left back position, quote me if you want.

[RV Blue]

  On 29/05/2018 at 09:38, Bigdoggsteel said:

You beg to differ? Well he got player of the season the season before last, so you are in the minority there. Last season whilst his distribution wasn't always perfect, there was no doubt he was solid definsivley. Hence why he is now a full international  

Too small? I am pretty sure plenty of players play in the Premiership at center back whop are the same height

He is competing with Stephen Ward fort he left back position , Rovers v Burnley. Get behind your own player FFS  

 

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He didn’t deserve player of the season though, embarrassing that he got it. 

Smaller centre halves need to have certain attributes that are better than taller ones, i.e. they need to make up for their lack of height by being better in other areas. Derrick is not better in other areas and hence does not make up for his lack of height.

Ward is twice the player Williams is, whether he plays for Burnley or not.

[Bigdoggsteel]

  On 29/05/2018 at 11:48, RV Blue said:

He didn’t deserve player of the season though, embarrassing that he got it. 

Smaller centre halves need to have certain attributes that are better than taller ones, i.e. they need to make up for their lack of height by being better in other areas. Derrick is not better in other areas and hence does not make up for his lack of height.

Ward is twice the player Williams is, whether he plays for Burnley or not.

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Twice the player? You must not have seen much of Ward playing! He is solid and does what Dyche requires of him. I would say his Premier league career has been down to playing under Dyche. I can't say many Ireland supporters would have predicted he would still be playing Premier league football now. 

Williams is only 25 now and has just made his international debut. Suggesting we sell him for 1 million is lunacy. 

[robbojohnno]

If we could get anything north of £1.5million I'd take the money and trust Tony to reinvest and use Bell as our left back. Williams works hard and is dependable but there is a lot better out there.

[blueboy3333]

  On 29/05/2018 at 12:59, robbojohnno said:

If we could get anything north of £1.5million I'd take the money and trust Tony to reinvest and use Bell as our left back. Williams works hard and is dependable but there is a lot better out there.

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Like who?

[robbojohnno]

Greg Cunningham, George Friend to name a couple at Championship level but I'm not a scout.

[Oldgregg86]

  On 29/05/2018 at 12:59, robbojohnno said:

If we could get anything north of £1.5million I'd take the money and trust Tony to reinvest and use Bell as our left back. Williams works hard and is dependable but there is a lot better out there.

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There's alot worse aswell. I think Williams and bell will provide good competition for each other aswell as offering something different. 

[RV Blue]

  On 29/05/2018 at 13:10, blueboy3333 said:

Like who?

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Well we got Bell for what? 200k? I think he’s a better player than Williams so I would assume that there would be loads of left backs that are better than Williams for 7.5x that number.

[Blow-in]

  On 29/05/2018 at 19:22, RV Blue said:

Well we got Bell for what? 200k? I think he’s a better player than Williams so I would assume that there would be loads of left backs that are better than Williams for 7.5x that number.

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We dont have a great history with reinvesting transfer fees so im in no rush to sell anyone other then people who dont justify their wages. Williams is worthy of his wage and in my opinion should be going nowhere.

[roversfan99]

Dont understand the wide assumption that Bell will go in to the season as first choice.

Im not Williams biggest fan but hes practically an ever present, and Bell im not sure has done anything to guarantee him a place.

[blueboy3333]

  On 29/05/2018 at 19:22, RV Blue said:

Well we got Bell for what? 200k? I think he’s a better player than Williams so I would assume that there would be loads of left backs that are better than Williams for 7.5x that number.

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Mowbray doesn't or he would've picked him.

[RV Blue]

  On 29/05/2018 at 22:03, blueboy3333 said:

Mowbray doesn't or he would've picked him.

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Most League 1 players did though and he was named in the PFA team of the season despite not playing much in the second half of the season, that says a lot. Williams was the safe option last season when we didn’t need to take risks, doesn’t necessarily mean that Mowbray thinks Williams is a better player, just more consistent.

[Mike E]

  On 30/05/2018 at 06:27, RV Blue said:

Most League 1 players did though and he was named in the PFA team of the season despite not playing much in the second half of the season, that says a lot. Williams was the safe option last season when we didn’t need to take risks, doesn’t necessarily mean that Mowbray thinks Williams is a better player, just more consistent.

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Agreed. Think it was a case of 'He's not done anything to drop the shirt yet', without being outstanding.

[Bigdoggsteel]

  On 29/05/2018 at 22:03, blueboy3333 said:

Mowbray doesn't or he would've picked him.

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It's called competition. It is up to Bell to win the jersey from Williams. Mowbray gave him chances last season from the bench , the real winner will become evident next season. Great to have it 

[Bigdoggsteel]

  On 29/05/2018 at 19:22, RV Blue said:

Well we got Bell for what? 200k? I think he’s a better player than Williams so I would assume that there would be loads of left backs that are better than Williams for 7.5x that number.

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He cost €350,000 I read.

Never assume! A good lefty is hard to find  

[JacknOry]

  On 30/05/2018 at 13:19, Bigdoggsteel said:

He cost €350,000 I read.

Never assume! A good lefty is hard to find  

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As England have found out over generations as Giggs, Duff and Bale have been world beaters. What is it with left wingers in this damn country?

[Stuart]

If Bell wasn’t bought with one eye on the Championship I’m not sure why he was brought in at all.

He made the L1 team of the season ahead of all other left backs and couldn’t get into Rovers’ side ahead of a very average Williams.

Signs are that Williams will be one of a three and Bell at left wing back. Not convinced.

[blueboy3333]

  On 30/05/2018 at 22:34, Stuart said:

Signs are that Williams will be one of a three and Bell at left wing back. Not convinced.

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If the speculation is correct we are after wingers. We wouldn't be after wingers if we were going to play with wing-backs. I think we''ll go 4 at the back again.

[Stuart]

  On 30/05/2018 at 23:53, blueboy3333 said:

If the speculation is correct we are after wingers. We wouldn't be after wingers if we were going to play with wing-backs. I think we''ll go 4 at the back again.

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Hope so. Mowbray has a great squad last season - relative to the division. He won’t have next season. When he had the opportunity - at the start of the season and after gaining promotion - he went to three. In both mini-phases, it cost us. For the majority of the season he played four and let the players get on with it. Thanks to Dack - and Mulgrew’s free kicks we did it. He needs to fight the urge or we will be exposed by better teams than undid us this time out.

[Guest]

  On 30/05/2018 at 23:53, blueboy3333 said:

If the speculation is correct we are after wingers. We wouldn't be after wingers if we were going to play with wing-backs. I think we''ll go 4 at the back again.

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Mowbray's preferred formations seem to be 4-3-3 (with 2 wing forwards, or call it 4-5-1 if you like), or 3-5-2 (with 2 wing-backs). In actual fact, formations are largely irrelevant - they're just numbers that change all the time depending on what is happening on the pitch. But I don't think conventional wingers, a la Ripley and Wilcox, fit into Mowbray's requirements. Have we ever been linked to any?

[blueboy3333]

  On 31/05/2018 at 08:17, Stuart said:

Hope so. Mowbray has a great squad last season - relative to the division. He won’t have next season. When he had the opportunity - at the start of the season and after gaining promotion - he went to three. In both mini-phases, it cost us. For the majority of the season he played four and let the players get on with it. Thanks to Dack - and Mulgrew’s free kicks we did it. He needs to fight the urge or we will be exposed by better teams than undid us this time out.

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Agree completely on the squad last season. It was a lower/mid-table Championship squad as shown by the results Mowbray got with (most of) it the season before.

I think there were a few factors that made Tony tinker at the start of last season. The Southend game probably gave him the fear, being overrun playing 4-2-3-1 with the full backs exposed and Whittingham offering nothing in midfield. In some of next few games he tried to compensate by moving Whittingham round the pitch (RM, LM, No.10, CM and that was just the Doncaster game - just so he could include his marquee signing) and trying 5 at the back. It failed miserably and made us impotent up front. Unless you have attacking wing-backs who play in the opposition half it just ends up 5 at the back with 1 less player in attacking areas, which is what happened. There was no need for that with the players we had and the division we were in, especially at home. The criticism at the beginning of the season was entirely justified for that reason. We got better when he settled on a system and Dack and then Graham got fit and firing.

Will he tinker again next season? Who knows but he does appear to like 3-4-3 or whatever it's called this week. We played it brilliantly at Brentford on the day we got relegated and it may be an option for Mowbray next season, especially away. We have the players for it now more than last season. Bell looks a natural wing-back, he's very comfortable on the ball and can beat a man and get his cross in (Williams is much more defensive and not suited to the WB role). The problem Mogga will have with 4-2-3-1 is that again the full backs will be exposed and teams in the Championship will have much better wingers and full-backs ( apart from Oldham's obviously) than we came up against in League 1. Teams didn't have the players to hurt us last season for the most part, next season most will.

I think Mogga is a pragmatist, and for all his talk of fast, attacking football I think he'll just try and find a system that meets his and the clubs objectives, like he did last season and like he nearly did the season before. My guess would be counter-attacking football but with a lot more pace in wide areas and more mobility in CM. We may get JLowe back after all?