[Archived] Blackburn Town Centre

[incy wincy little spider]

I think it's good timing that 1/3 of the mall was knocked down when it was, as im guessing 1/3 of the shops would have been empty by now. I've lived here my whole life and it is a dump, although it is getting better. There are no job prospects either which the reason why I am emigrating in 2 weeks.

I went to the market recently and it's dying. There were only 2 fishmongers left and lots of empty stalls. Also heard, but I can't believe it that the rent has actually gone up! I don't have a business degree but don't shops start out as stalls on the market!? Killing off the breeding ground of future shops in the area can't be good for the future of the town's shopping centre!?

[JC4LAB]

Difficult to pass judgement till its finished but I personally miss TJ hughes and aint happy it will be replaced by Primemark...None of their clothes seem to fit a traditional pie eater.

[jim mk2]

it doesn't matter who gets in.

Get ready for a slash and burn of public spending, there's no more money left.

Public spending does not need to slashed, and the top tax rate did not need to be hiked to 50 per cent despite being desirable in the interests of fairness and also for ideological reasons.

In the first instance, government should take an axe to the multitude of tax reliefs and allowances available to individuals and companies that rob the exchequer of tens of billions of pounds every year.

[broadsword]

So, tax people more, in other words.

It won't cover it in any case, we'll be paying off the national debt for a decade.

[thenodrog]

So, tax people more, in other words.

It won't cover it in any case, we'll be paying off the national debt for a decade.

I read it'll take 23 years providing that we dont borrow any more.

Jim you must live in your own little thought bubble.

[SAS]

Difficult to pass judgement till its finished but I personally miss TJ hughes and aint happy it will be replaced by Primemark...None of their clothes seem to fit a traditional pie eater.

The girlfriend will love it tho.

I can tell you, a LOT of people in my age group, mainly females always travel to preston and manchester just to go primark, this store will attract them closer to home.

It will also steal customers from accrington and burnley.

[blue phil]

Blackburn is certainly a better place than when the Tories were kicked out in 1997.

Is it good enough to move from the Tory dominated Ribble Valley though , jimbo ?.........that's the question .

I've heard Maggie Grimshaw has some desirable town centre property on the market - quite reasonable prices I'm sure you'll agree .

Come and actually live here ........and then give us one of your tiresome dogmatic lectures .......

[Bazzanotsogreat]

The Daily Mail miserablists won't agree but Labour's 12 years in power has seen money well spent on better public services which has led to increased wealth and a better quality of life all round. Blackburn is certainly a better place than when the Tories were kicked out in 1997.

I would like to place a bet; that in the last twelve years most socio-economic would indicate a stagnation of conditions at best. Most of town centre renewal ( if that’s the word- was either completed before the Maoists came into power or had at least gone through planning). The new centre- will probably be ready for when the Tories are back in power.

Social cohesion, quality of life and all the other indicators that ‘easily spun’ by Labour’s machine are defiantly worse.

[thenodrog]

Much of the gdp of Blackburn these days is used in buying wildly expensive properties in Syllette of Karachi. The old truism that 'money is only spent once' simply means that the reduced spending power of the town will distill down to... businesses that can survive will stay and those that can't will move out... and follow very many of the most affluent citizens into domestic exile. Like jimski in fact.

[Paul]

Well now I can post this in its proper place I will do so:

Sorry to read your mother is ill philip.

I'd like to second jim's remark. There is no doubt the country still faces real problems in many areas but equally much has improved in the past 10 years. In the last two years I've had to use the NHS quite a lot, nothing serious, just falling off the garage roof etc, and the level of care, service and attention I have received is unrecognisable from the media reporting. Our Tom calls on all sorts of support in his life, and apart from speech and language therapy, we could not find fault with any of the services the state provides for the disabled.

Yes there is still much to do, yes the government have got things wrong in places, yes there are people who abuse the system, yes there are thousands who still don't get what they deserve but it's all a damn sight better than it used to be.

It all depends how you look at it. My wife works in the NHS, she could list the problems faced on a daily basis, it's what we all do, but she could just as easily list all the positives as well because there are many, many positives out there.

Glass half full or empty?

[thenodrog]

So now you two exiles have agreed that the NHS is better (not sure Burnley folk agree mind) care to carry on with the rest of your appraisal of Blackburn compared with the Blackburn of your youth? Y'know the Blackburn that offered employment and entertainement for it's citizens.

btw Philip... the atmosphere in Blackburn is 'relaxed' on a Friday night cos there is nobody there any more.

[Paul]

I can't argue Blackburn faces many problems which stretch back much further than the recent administration. As far as I can see successive councils have totally failed to address much of the investment needed. Personally I rarely shop in the town, in fact I only visit three stores, because there is nothing to go for. That used not to be the case. Blackburn's problem is it has failed to match developments elsewhere which are equally accessible to consumers. We are discussing decades of under investment, not 10 years.

Why not, once, just once post a positive about life in Britain. We face many issues but we also have many positives. I find it disappointing people can see nothing but the bad and constantly fail to recognise the good. Ultimatley it makes one question the validity of the opinions expressed by such people.

[Plastic Head]

Only the Luftwaffe could sort out the mess that is Blackburn Town Centre.

The only thing worth keeping is the brewery which could be re-located (perhaps on Whalley Range).

[thenodrog]

I can't argue Blackburn faces many problems which stretch back much further than the recent administration. As far as I can see successive councils have totally failed to address much of the investment needed. Personally I rarely shop in the town, in fact I only visit three stores, because there is nothing to go for. That used not to be the case. Blackburn's problem is it has failed to match developments elsewhere which are equally accessible to consumers. We are discussing decades of under investment, not 10 years.

Why not, once, just once post a positive about life in Britain. We face many issues but we also have many positives. I find it disappointing people can see nothing but the bad and constantly fail to recognise the good. Ultimatley it makes one question the validity of the opinions expressed by such people.

You are telling me to post a positive? Crikey.......... Your first paragraph is full of negativity about Blackburn Paul.

And anyway in your own words you rarely go to the centre of town anyway so are you really qualified to judge and if so how valid is your opinion?

[Drummer Boy]

In a similar vein to philipl, I moved back North after a few years down South - albeit to the wrong side of Burnley & Pendle, which itself is not without issues - and was very impressed with some of the improvements made in some key aspects of the town:

• The proposed development of the town centre is long overdue to match those of neighbouring towns
• The improvements in health care (across East Lancashire, including Burnley which is our first port of call before going to Queens Park)
• The transport infrastructure, notably the M65, the developing ring road around Blackburn and the East Lancs train line
• Improved housing especially in the most deprived parts of town - I don't care about the colour of faces as deprivation does not discriminate on that basis. I recently took my daughter to St Marys College (my old school no less) to an open day and went home via the route down which I used to get to the town centre and the improved living conditions for the residents whilst not luxurious are a quantum leap from what they were in the 1970's
• By the same token we have friends who live in and around Bank Top and there are a great many issues still to address
• I agree the town looks much better off than it did a generation ago but also recognise that is a very low base from which to start - it is helped by the much improved buildings/architecture replacing some of the disasters of the 1960s most notably the shopping precinct.

I recently spent a post-match session in Blackburn town centre and it was glum at best, but isn't that indicative of the decline in the pub trade, the lack of student population to catalyse the club scene and the fact that about a quarter of the population is affiliated to a culture that does not incorporate going down town to the pub for the evening to get a bit lashed and meet a few mates etc etc.

The atmosphere in town was a bit desparate with two town centre pubs tolerating 9-year olds doing karaoke at 9pm just to keep their families in the pub as they were the only ones there! This is not Blackburn's fault and is a national phenomenon based on the fact you can buy a bottle of Strongbow for £1.20 in Asda or buy it in a pub for £2.90. My eldest son has just started discovering night life around East Lancs and has already worked out that pubs are a rip-off compared to the supermarket and retiring to a mates room for a few beers and a laugh before going to a club.

As for shopping, I willingly drive past Nelson & Burnley to go to Blackburn for what is still a pretty limited choice: Not being a fan of homogenised consumer culture I tend to give the Trafford centre a miss so go to Manchester or Leeds city centres if Blackburn is not up to scratch. The reasons Blackburn is not as well served as a town of its size should be are many and varied but, a bit like football club catchment areas, it is hemmed in by Preston and Bolton as well as being less than an hour from Manchester centre.

Now, I'm not going to sit here and proclaim all is well in Blackburn (or Burnley or Pendle for that matter) in fact there is much still to do - a quick glance at the local NHS strategic plan gives some revealing insights:

7 districts of Blackburn are amongst England's worst 1% - these include areas that are predominantly indigenous as well as ethnic

Teenage pregnancy way exceeds the national average

The 4th highest per capita rate of drug misuse in the country

Our graduates generally do not come back to the area so our middle-class which often drives expectations and standards up for the rest is thin on the ground relative to other parts of the country - hence why Margo whatshername can't sell her flats (and the fact she wants too much money)

In fact, across a whole series of socio-economic indicators including Earnings, Child Poverty, Employment rate, Benefits dependency, Self employment rate, Business survival rates, NEET occurrence and educational attainment at all levels then we are in competition with the good people of Blackpool, Burnley, Hyndburn and Pendle to be the worst in the North West if not the country.

In summary then - the town has come a long way over the last 20 years but has a long way to go to catch up and it is positive that there is a Pennine Lancashire project that aims to bring together the East Lancashire area so it has the critical mass to operate as a single entity to attract public and private investment. This includes the provision of Higher education in Blackburn and Burnley centres.

The only way for Blackburn town centre to rejuvenate is as the centre of a wider Pennine Lancashire economy that has Burnley (a town that can no longer economically support itself) as its major satellite and embraces the rest of East Lancashire. The same could be said for like our football club's prospects as a sustainable premiership club!!

[tony gale's mic]

In a similar vein to philipl, I moved back North after a few years down South - albeit to the wrong side of Burnley & Pendle, which itself is not without issues - and was very impressed with some of the improvements made in some key aspects of the town:

• The proposed development of the town centre is long overdue to match those of neighbouring towns
• The improvements in health care (across East Lancashire, including Burnley which is our first port of call before going to Queens Park)
• The transport infrastructure, notably the M65, the developing ring road around Blackburn and the East Lancs train line
• Improved housing especially in the most deprived parts of town - I don't care about the colour of faces as deprivation does not discriminate on that basis. I recently took my daughter to St Marys College (my old school no less) to an open day and went home via the route down which I used to get to the town centre and the improved living conditions for the residents whilst not luxurious are a quantum leap from what they were in the 1970's
• By the same token we have friends who live in and around Bank Top and there are a great many issues still to address
• I agree the town looks much better off than it did a generation ago but also recognise that is a very low base from which to start - it is helped by the much improved buildings/architecture replacing some of the disasters of the 1960s most notably the shopping precinct.

I recently spent a post-match session in Blackburn town centre and it was glum at best, but isn't that indicative of the decline in the pub trade, the lack of student population to catalyse the club scene and the fact that about a quarter of the population is affiliated to a culture that does not incorporate going down town to the pub for the evening to get a bit lashed and meet a few mates etc etc.

The atmosphere in town was a bit desparate with two town centre pubs tolerating 9-year olds doing karaoke at 9pm just to keep their families in the pub as they were the only ones there! This is not Blackburn's fault and is a national phenomenon based on the fact you can buy a bottle of Strongbow for £1.20 in Asda or buy it in a pub for £2.90. My eldest son has just started discovering night life around East Lancs and has already worked out that pubs are a rip-off compared to the supermarket and retiring to a mates room for a few beers and a laugh before going to a club.

As for shopping, I willingly drive past Nelson & Burnley to go to Blackburn for what is still a pretty limited choice: Not being a fan of homogenised consumer culture I tend to give the Trafford centre a miss so go to Manchester or Leeds city centres if Blackburn is not up to scratch. The reasons Blackburn is not as well served as a town of its size should be are many and varied but, a bit like football club catchment areas, it is hemmed in by Preston and Bolton as well as being less than an hour from Manchester centre.

Now, I'm not going to sit here and proclaim all is well in Blackburn (or Burnley or Pendle for that matter) in fact there is much still to do - a quick glance at the local NHS strategic plan gives some revealing insights:

7 districts of Blackburn are amongst England's worst 1% - these include areas that are predominantly indigenous as well as ethnic

Teenage pregnancy way exceeds the national average

The 4th highest per capita rate of drug misuse in the country

Our graduates generally do not come back to the area so our middle-class which often drives expectations and standards up for the rest is thin on the ground relative to other parts of the country - hence why Margo whatshername can't sell her flats (and the fact she wants too much money)

In fact, across a whole series of socio-economic indicators including Earnings, Child Poverty, Employment rate, Benefits dependency, Self employment rate, Business survival rates, NEET occurrence and educational attainment at all levels then we are in competition with the good people of Blackpool, Burnley, Hyndburn and Pendle to be the worst in the North West if not the country.

In summary then - the town has come a long way over the last 20 years but has a long way to go to catch up and it is positive that there is a Pennine Lancashire project that aims to bring together the East Lancashire area so it has the critical mass to operate as a single entity to attract public and private investment. This includes the provision of Higher education in Blackburn and Burnley centres.

The only way for Blackburn town centre to rejuvenate is as the centre of a wider Pennine Lancashire economy that has Burnley (a town that can no longer economically support itself) as its major satellite and embraces the rest of East Lancashire. The same could be said for like our football club's prospects as a sustainable premiership club!!

Really liked that very even-handed post until the last sentence, which sounded suspiciously like theno's Lancs Utd suggestions...

[Guest Vinjay606]

Really liked that very even-handed post until the last sentence, which sounded suspiciously like theno's Lancs Utd suggestions...

Last thing we need is people jumping on his one man bandwagon.

[tony gale's mic]

one man bandwagon.

:lol: :lol:

[Drummer Boy]

I just threw the last sentence in almost as an afterthought as I know it is a topic that has been debated before with some heated exchanges as I recall! Without opening up the debate, the analogy sprang to my mind in the way that the former mill towns of East Lancashire no longer have the economy to stand alone, are each trying to punch above their weight economically and their only practical path to prosperity is to put aside long-established rivalries, recognise them and move on in collaboration based on the common issues that affect us all rather than highlighting the differences that become rather petty in this context.

In a purely dispassionate world, the same principle applies in full to our respective football clubs - none will prosper at the highest level in their own right, but one club representing all of us could - but we do not live in a dispassionate world so it won't happen whilst my a*se points downwards, nor would I want it to despite the logic of the argument. Pity, really but there you go.

[tony gale's mic]

I just threw the last sentence in almost as an afterthought as I know it is a topic that has been debated before with some heated exchanges as I recall! Without opening up the debate, the analogy sprang to my mind in the way that the former mill towns of East Lancashire no longer have the economy to stand alone, are each trying to punch above their weight economically and their only practical path to prosperity is to put aside long-established rivalries, recognise them and move on in collaboration based on the common issues that affect us all rather than highlighting the differences that become rather petty in this context.

In a purely dispassionate world, the same principle applies in full to our respective football clubs - none will prosper at the highest level in their own right, but one club representing all of us could - but we do not live in a dispassionate world so it won't happen whilst my a*se points downwards, nor would I want it to despite the logic of the argument. Pity, really but there you go.

And in a dispassionate world football wouldn't exactly be a prosperous pastime.

[colin]

Good post Drummer Boy, makes a change from the, sometimes, overwhelming negative posts. Interesting to read a bit of background.

I don't suppose Blackburn is really too much different from many towns & cities around the north of Britain.

It's just that it got the worst 1960's "shopping centre" ever designed. Oh well. Carp shopping centres are not exclusive to Blackburn.

[tony gale's mic]

I don't suppose Blackburn is really too much different from many towns & cities around the north of Britain.

Exactly. I've been based in West Yorkshire these last six years and have been sent out on placement to all sorts of towns in the area and theyre all not much better than Blackburn really, except for obvious exceptions like Harrogate.

[Drummer Boy]

And in a dispassionate world football wouldn't exactly be a prosperous pastime.

Which is why East Lancs Utd will never happen yet it makes good sense to have a Pennine Lancashire approach to the economy, education, local government and business that focuses on common issues and objectives whilst accepting sub-optimal levels of football as this represents our expression of local difference - this probably means our stay in the prem is not sustainable, likewise Burnley's in the Championship and Stanley as a league club is not viable in the long-term and is something we are all prepared to accept as our need to be different from each other is more important.

[thenodrog]

The only way for Blackburn town centre to rejuvenate is as the centre of a wider Pennine Lancashire economy that has Burnley (a town that can no longer economically support itself) as its major satellite and embraces the rest of East Lancashire. The same could be said for like our football club's prospects as a sustainable premiership club!!

The necessity and inevitability shines out like a beacon. There are so many Man Utd shirts around theses days it makes me sick! It's getting like the 1970's again. Don't know about our resident ostriches but I'd much rather my kids turned to Lancs Utd to support rather than Man Utd or Lpool.

[neekoy]

Lancs Utd to support rather than Man Utd or Lpool.

For those who are familiar with all the football played in this area, anyone keen to put together a squad of 23 that a Lanc Utd squad would compete with?

Is Phillip aware of the what kind of financial powerhouse the club would be taking into consideration a successful merger?