[Archived] Vogel Leaves The Club

[RibbleValleyRover]

Tugay has control and class Vogel never had or will have. Makes up for lack of pace.

Complete nonsense in my opinion. From what I saw last season he was able to control and distribute the ball well and was pretty accurate, as was shown in the game against United.

[Amo]

That certainly explains Gary Speed at Bolton then-...oh.

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

Complete nonsense in my opinion. From what I saw last season he was able to control and distribute the ball well and was pretty accurate, as was shown in the game against United.

You are not surely comparing Tugays ball control, range of passing and technical ability to Vogel, who, at best, is a tidy, tenacious defensive midfielder?

[92er]

You are not surely comparing Tugays ball control, range of passing and technical ability to Vogel, who, at best, is a tidy, tenacious defensive midfielder?

Not that RVR needs me to write on his behalf, but maybe he is just describing Vogel's qualities, rather than comparing them with Tugay's.

Persoanlly, I think a more valid comparison is with Grella, whose legs presumably have not gone, who plays very rarely and has good games even more rarely.

What I also don't get is Allardyce's comment along the lines that Vogel isn't up to playing matches when he has so infrequently played him.

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

I was saying that Tugay has ball control that compensates for his chronic lack of pace. RvR said that Vogel does have the same class as Tugay. I disagree. I think he's a tidy player who relies on running lots and tackling lots rather than twisting and tricking his way out of trouble. It wasn't me who started the comparison.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Not that RVR needs me to write on his behalf, but maybe he is just describing Vogel's qualities, rather than comparing them with Tugay's.

Persoanlly, I think a more valid comparison is with Grella, whose legs presumably have not gone, who plays very rarely and has good games even more rarely.

What I also don't get is Allardyce's comment along the lines that Vogel isn't up to playing matches when he has so infrequently played him.

Correct, that is what i was saying. I made a quick response to ADB's post and didn't check the context of his post properly.

To make it clear Tugay's ball control, technique is better than Vogel's, however from what i saw Vogel could distribute the ball well and certainly better than some of the players who have featured this season.

Sam more or less came out saying that Vogel has some decent qualities but his legs are shot, well from what I’ve seen surely Tugay’s legs are shot as well. I’m sorry but I don’t buy Sam’s excuse, Vogel In my opinion could have done a job this season even if it was only off the bench.

[RevidgeBlue]

Lot of debate about nothing on this thread imo.

Might have been a good player once but the version that pitched up at Ewood certainly wasn't.

My view of him as a player was that he stood there doing nothing "patrolling an area of the pitch."

Sam's view of him was his legs had gone.

Probably one and the same thing in reality.

Certainly not good enough for the Prem imo. Might survive a little longer in a slower paced League.

[JAL]

Lot of debate about nothing on this thread imo.

Might have been a good player once but the version that pitched up at Ewood certainly wasn't.

My view of him as a player was that he stood there doing nothing "patrolling an area of the pitch."

Sam's view of him was his legs had gone.

Probably one and the same thing in reality.

Certainly not good enough for the Prem imo. Might survive a little longer in a slower paced League.

Here, here, cant believe people rating Vogel.

[Hughesy]

Here, here, cant believe people rating Vogel.

+1

[joey_big_nose]

Tugay is a genius and probably the most technically gifted player to grace the blue and white at least in my lifetime. Thats why he can get away with playing without any pace or power. Vogel on the other hand is a slight guy, much smaller than Mokoena or Grella, who does have decent technical ability but little or no vision as far as I can see as well as no pace.

That said our central midfield plight has been so acute it is hard to see why Johann he has not at least had a bit more of a chance. Our only other regular midfielders - Dunn, Tugay, Mokoena, Andrews, Grella - all have glaring weaknesses also.

Personally my feeling is that he probably just didn't have the hunger for it and Ince and Sam saw that. No point in playing someone who does not want to play and won't keep themselves in optimum condition. I can't see it being a "conspiracy". Just probably an issue of attitude. The fact he was willing to tear up his contract at Rovers suggests he just couldn't be fussed any more.

I could be wrong but it seems that sort of situation.

[Hughesy]

Agree that Tugay can get away with it because of his style of play - however I also think his legs have finally gone too. Coaching role time for him I think.

[Silencio]

Lot of debate about nothing on this thread imo.

Might have been a good player once but the version that pitched up at Ewood certainly wasn't.

My view of him as a player was that he stood there doing nothing "patrolling an area of the pitch."

Sam's view of him was his legs had gone.

Probably one and the same thing in reality.

Certainly not good enough for the Prem imo. Might survive a little longer in a slower paced League.

Do you not think he was better than Grella?

[thenodrog]

Do you not think he was better than Grella?

We've hardlty seen much of either but imo Grella is better defensively and more aggressive off the ball whilst Vogel's talent is better on the ball.

[American]

I doubt it very much - surely the club who 'wants' him pays his wages?? Hence why Derbyshire was shifted out to create space for Diouf & Givet on the books.

Then going by your logic, we're only saving 5k p/w because Gallagher is out on loan, so we wouldn't be paying his wages.

[Hughesy]

Then going by your logic, we're only saving 5k p/w because Gallagher is out on loan, so we wouldn't be paying his wages.

You have lost me sorry

[American]

You say we are saving 20k per week on Gallagher and 15k per week on Simpson. Considering both of them are on loan, it can't be a full 35k we are saving. Essentially, we are saving nothing on Gallagher, since we don't pay his wages, and 15k on Simpson, unless the club who is loaning the player pays the wages, then we are saving 20k (allegedly - would like to know what you consider 'fact' have you actually seen the contract, or did you just hear someone brag about it?) on Gally and nothing on Simpson.

Not that difficult.

[Hughesy]

No sorry think you misunderstood me. We will be saving that money when the both leave - 15k ish for Simo & 20k for Gally.

As for Gally, I cant divuldge exactly where, but it came via someone who is family of his and speaks to him daily.

[philipl]

Gally is out on loan.

Therefore we are not paying his full wages.

Therefore there is not a £20k saving to be made.

[Hughesy]

We are paying half of Gally's wage at the moment. So i see your point we are only actually saving that 10k. My point was that it was 20k a week off the books permanently

[thenodrog]

Is it just me that thinks that telephone number remuneration for bit part players is just plain ridiculous?

[rover6]

Football is ridiculous, from the finances to the hype.

[Fife Rover]

Football is ridiculous, from the finances to the hype.

EDIT: Removed.

[bazza]

I really liked Vogel whenever he played for us - I thought he was the Ooijer of our midfield - experienced, read the game well and had a bit of class about him (though many of you will probably disagree). Probably never reached his best but I guess an undercurrent of managers swept away his chances of holding a midfield place down.

Best of luck to Johann.

Agree entirely with this post. The bit of football I saw him play I considered class. I don't know why but Vogel and his non selection has got to me.

OK. I'll just have to get over it.

[Hughesy]

He was nothing special and now he's gone. Thank god.

[Oklahoma]

He was not a first team player but, taking in consideration our centre midfield alternatives, he should have played a lot more.