[Archived] Liverpool Preview

[thenodrog]

Our pretty sure our training ground atmosphere will be fine - we seem to have great team spirit.

A point made a few times by Robbie Savage. But he has been gone over 12 months now hasn't he?

[Hughesy]

With have some larger than life characters in our squad though which im sure will make the atmosphere great - Dunn, Tugay, Samba, Diouf, Robbo etc.

[den]

The fact that the teams around us have looked decidedly ordinary all season and that I think, even with a terrible manager, the extra quality we have in our squad in comparison to four or five other teams in this league would have resulted in us picking up enough points.

Want to explain what extra quality we have - and over whom?

[Eddie]

Benni, Santa Cruz when fit, Nelsen, Samba, Warnock, MGP and even Ooijer and Robinson to an extent. All now have premiership experience and would make the starting line-up of most, if not all, of our relegatin rivals (exception probably being Ooijer).

[Silencio]

Benni, Santa Cruz when fit, Nelsen, Samba, Warnock, MGP and even Ooijer and Robinson to an extent. All now have premiership experience and would make the starting line-up of most, if not all, of our relegatin rivals (exception probably being Ooijer).

I'd dispute that Nelsen or MGP would be of much use to any other team... Is RSC someone we can rely on at the moment?

[DE.]

Benni, Santa Cruz when fit, Nelsen, Samba, Warnock, MGP and even Ooijer and Robinson to an extent. All now have premiership experience and would make the starting line-up of most, if not all, of our relegatin rivals (exception probably being Ooijer).

That "extra quality" would only count if Benni would lay off the McDonalds, or Roque/MGP would remember how to score, or Nelsen would not gift teams goals... our extra quality has been shown up this year as being far from it. Samba and Warnock have done okay, and Robbo's made some important saves, but really, our "quality" players have for the majority of this season looked decidedly ordinary.

[den]

That "extra quality" would only count if Benni would lay off the McDonalds, or Roque/MGP would remember how to score, or Nelsen would not gift teams goals... our extra quality has been shown up this year as being far from it. Samba and Warnock have done okay, and Robbo's made some important saves, but really, our "quality" players have for the majority of this season looked decidedly ordinary.

Correct.

It's no use telling the Rovers fans that these players have been great this year Eddie. They haven't.

[LeChuck]

Benni, Santa Cruz when fit, Nelsen, Samba, Warnock, MGP and even Ooijer and Robinson to an extent. All now have premiership experience and would make the starting line-up of most, if not all, of our relegatin rivals (exception probably being Ooijer).

I can't disagree with that Eddie, but what really stands out from that is that you've only listed one midfielder in all those players (and he's probably the worst player in the list).

That really does highlight where all our problems have stemmed from this season.

[Hughesy]

I think you could also now add to that Sams 2 signings - they would easily get in most of those teams down near the bottom.

We have had a clueless manager (Ince) and too many injuries this season. We will survive and then its down to Big Sam to sort it out - interesting times ahead. 10 in - 10 out?

[RevidgeBlue]

Sam's priorities for this game -

1) Avoid injuries from needless activities i.e. tackling/running etc.

2) Rest any player carrying an injury - play kids instead.

3) Avoid yellow/red cards - yes! - no tackling.

4) Try not to grin like a daft kid when caught on camera - sorry Sam - failed on this.

5) Pretend in interviews after the game that we actually were trying and had a cunning plan.

6) Spend the time on tactics for the really important games coming up.

7) Avoid a charge of bringing the game into disrepute for deliberately fielding a weakened side.

103) Hope that luck and poor finishing gives us a remote chance of a 0:0 draw.

Oh well! Apart from the latter, job done

Oooops silly me, I'd completely forgotten the Premier League had changed the rules so that you now only get three points for beating one of the "big four" but seemingly get four points for a draw against Stoke and six points for beating them!

Absolute nonsense above. This newfangled "prioritising games" wheeze completely ignores the fact that in any game you are liable to be the beneficiary or victim of outrageous strokes of good or bad fortune or appallingly bad referreeing decisions. However you have to be on the premises to benefit from such situations.

It's no good getting a lucky break if you're 4-0 down at the time.

On Saturday we might play the best all season, but hit the woodwork five times and lose 1-0 to a dodgy penalty rendering prioritising that game completely obsolete.

[47er]

Oooops silly me, I'd completely forgotten the Premier League had changed the rules so that you now only get three points for beating one of the "big four" but seemingly get four points for a draw against Stoke and six points for beating them!

Absolute nonsense above. This newfangled "prioritising games" wheeze completely ignores the fact that in any game you are liable to be the beneficiary or victim of outrageous strokes of good or bad fortune or appallingly bad referreeing decisions. However you have to be on the premises to benefit from such situations.

It's no good getting a lucky break if you're 4-0 down at the time.

On Saturday we might play the best all season, but hit the woodwork five times and lose 1-0 to a dodgy penalty rendering prioritising that game completely obsolete.

Everton haven't beaten one of the top 4 either but they are challenging for 4th!

[tashor]

On Saturday we might play the best all season, but hit the woodwork five times and lose 1-0 to a dodgy penalty rendering prioritising that game completely obsolete.

True. I didn't mean this game in isolation but the rest of the season.

We are walking on egg shells with our injuries - I would guess that Rocky could play with injections and rest up post season - the usually treatment for tendonitis - after all Dunn is - but it seems that either him or the club is scared to bite the bullet - will the german specialist suggest surgery or issue a sick note - find out soon on the next episode of The Rocky Road to Ewood.........

You may be right, you may be wrong - we will never know BUT statistically you are likely to be wrong. We were 11/1 to beat L'Pool ( funnily enough the odds of our relegation). Yes, I do know the odds of the National winner but we are back to eggs and baskets. If we had played the very best team available and given it our blue and white valiant all then we may of got something BUT odds on we would've still lost AND come away with injuries which would reduce the reasonable chance of points in five of our remaining games. Overall we would likely have less points at the end of the season, which is what matters.

It is all about picking the right fight - and then going in hard. 5-6 points should be enough - at the very worst we will have to beat West Brom at home last game - if we do not sweat blood and crack bones doing this if a win is needed to avoid relegation then you will have to get in line behind me to castigate the feckless players and management.

[DE.]

If it was November I could understand the rage over putting out a weakened team so that we have a stronger team for Stoke the week after... but in April, with six games to go and only 4 points between us and relegation?

We really need to forget all ambition for this season and just focus on surviving by playing our strongest teams in the games we can win (basically every game minus Chelski). Next season we can hit the reset button and try again, hopefully still in the Premier League. Sam's come through for us so far in the games that matter and that we have a reasonable chance in.

[Tris]

In a league competition, it isn't acceptable to play a weakened side, end of story.

Suppose on 11th May Boro travel to Newcastle already relegated, and play a bunch of kids to protect their saleable assets - 3 points to Newcastle.

Suppose on 16th May Newcastle host a Fulham side who have nothing left to play for so they have their end of season bash the night before and get battered on the Toon ... and then by the Toon at St James Park - 3 points to Newcastle.

Suppose on 24th May Newcastle travel to Aston Villa who are already confirmed in 5th spot so Europa Leauge football is theirs next year. O'Neill gives his top stars an early holiday to be fresher into pre-season - 3 points to Newcastle.

If that sequence of events were to happen - and get us relegated - the same people who are defending Blackburn Rovers for playing a weakened side against Liverpool (supposedly in our self interest) would be the first in line to moan I bet!

[DE.]

It wasn't an especially "weakened side" though, it was a side that was put out based upon injuries and fitness levels. There's no doubt we could have risked a couple of other players for the match (arguably Dunn playing and Grella coming on was a risk considering their fitness levels) but why do that when we could potentially field our strongest side at Stoke?

Our defence (Andrews - Nelsen - Ooijer - Givet) isn't weak by normal standards. Samba is missing from this picture, but he was playing, just up front, and Ooijer is an adequete if not fantastic replacement. Andrews has been playing right-back recently so that's not a surprise. Midfield (Treacy - Dunn - Tugay - Mokoena - Warnock) isn't especially weak.... Moko's played a number of games, as has Tugay unfortunately, Warnock & Dunn are supposed to be first teamers, Treacy shouldn't have started but that's only one major change. Samba up front alone is silly, but when the only other option is Benni McDonalds McCarthy we might as well have just had nobody up there.

It was a combination of negative tactics, poor players, and lengthly injuries that caused our downfall saturday. Best just to forget about it for now, it's done. Stoke is important, and we'll be able to field a slightly stronger side against a team more on our level.

[philipl]

The only moot point in Saturday's selection was playing Benni on his own up front or Samba.

The rest of the side on Saturday pretty well picked itself given the injuries and the semi-injured players struggling to do 90 minutes. Hardly a roll over and die selection- there was virtually no choice.

In retrospect I'd have stuck with Samba but played Zurab centrally and had Ooijer at RB in place of Andrews who I would have played in place of the Axe. With Dunn so limited in movement, I might have gone with Carlos there but that would have weakened an already terribly weak midfield.

[DanLad]

The only moot point in Saturday's selection was playing Benni on his own up front or Samba.

The rest of the side on Saturday pretty well picked itself given the injuries and the semi-injured players struggling to do 90 minutes. Hardly a roll over and die selection- there was virtually no choice.

In retrospect I'd have stuck with Samba but played Zurab centrally and had Ooijer at RB in place of Andrews who I would have played in place of the Axe. With Dunn so limited in movement, I might have gone with Carlos there but that would have weakened an already terribly weak midfield.

With the amount of success that Liverpool had down our right hand side I think it's been shown that Andrews isn't an adequate stop gap RB. It also shows that Treacy isn't a Premier league footballer. Or has it already been established that neither of them are Prem players?

[Eddie]

I think the Samba, Treacy and Tugay decisions could all be looked at. We could have played 4-4-2 and we didn't need to play quite so many players out of position.

[CAPT KAYOS]

I think the Samba, Treacy and Tugay decisions could all be looked at. We could have played 4-4-2 and we didn't need to play quite so many players out of position.

And Andrews - for the very reason of playing these players out of position it was a very weak line up regardless of who those players where.

SAMBA - up front last played there when he was 17 - great why all of a sudden P/L material up front?

ANDREWS - as mentioned - questionable in his midfield role as P/L player never mind RB.

TREACY - definitely not good enough full stop in his normal position

Absolute bonkers - despite injuries the set up for the game was an aboslute joke and took the p1ss out of the Rovers fans - especially those that actually paid good money to go to the game.

[thenodrog]

I think the Samba, Treacy and Tugay decisions could all be looked at. We could have played 4-4-2 and we didn't need to play quite so many players out of position.

Yes quite right. Have you sent Allardyce your phone number eddie? I'm sure that he'll be eager to phone you for advice with team selection whilst he's on the coach to Stoke.

[waggy]

i read in this thread that lardarse did not play benni because he did not want our only centre forward injured then he plays for the reserves on tuesday got that one wrong

[den]

i read in this thread that lardarse did not play benni because he did not want our only centre forward injured then he plays for the reserves on tuesday got that one wrong

You read in this thread, that some people "suspected" that Benni was kept back for the Stoke game. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't Waggy.

- and I do agree with you about Allardyce's tactics this season, it's not pretty. Nor is it something I personally would like to watch next season. We will see about that, when the time comes. For the moment Waggy, he's doing more than could reasonably be expected, with a very poor squad inherited from Ince. You would get much more sympathy if you acknowledged that, along with your criticisms. At the moment, your views are too narrow minded.

[roversmum]

Just a passing thought, but wouldn't the Reserve appearance have something to do with helping match fitness?

[RevidgeBlue]

Kevin Gallacher wasn't at all impressed by Saturday's performance or indeed by recent efforts.

I can't find his latest Wednesday LT article online but here are a selection of his comments:

McCarthy must be "gutted" as the only fit striker at the Club to lose his place up front to a defender.

Samba looked like a "little lamb" as a lone striker.

The 90 minutes at Anfield were "humiliating" for everyone connected with the Club.

We were ravaged by injuries but that doesn't stop players battling. The fight was not there and there's no excuse for that.

Wholesale changes needed in the summer. Players on 20k (pw) it seems are just "going through the motions."

The sooner RSC is back the better - we made the right decision keeping him - City didn't match our valuation - and even one winning goal from him between now and the end of the season could make the difference.

Strong stuff, largely justified imo but careful Kev, you might get your P45 winging it's way to you in summer.

[JAL]

All in all with a wage bill of £35m plus, to put out this dross wether they be resereves or not, you have to question the role of John Williams and co. in their management of the club over the past two years.

Its easy to blame managers and the owners but at the end of the day they are the ones who should be made accountable for this unacceptable mess the club finds itself in.

I certainly dont buy this lack of investment by the owners bit, its cheap, cheap get out talk for old men who've completely lost their way .