[Archived] Sensitive Topic

[thenodrog]

Now that we have all mourned the Hillsborough disaster yet again and had God only knows how many minutes silences (I endured 3 this weekend) how long will it all continue. I'm not wanting to be heartless but exactly when does the city of Lpool and the popular press and media encourage us all to mourn those lost in the disaster at Heyschell (and Bradford and Glasgow for that matter too with regard to the press and media)? According to the myths now deeply ingrained in the scouse psyche all the mickey mousers were completely and totally blameless at Hillborough no matter how late / p1ssed up they were and no matter where they got their tickets from hmmm but they bloody well weren't in Belgium were they? So do we have a minutes silence every year for them? Do we hell! Nope the 39 dead Italians were again all the fault of negligent authorities weren't they?

No doubt I'll be lambasted for suggesting such a thing but am I the only one who suspects that after seeing the meteorological success that Man Utd have gained by milking Munich 58 for all it is worth that the 'men in grey suits' behind Liverpool FC are seeking to utilise this by employing the same tactic but in this case in the name of the Hillsborough dead? Remember MU were just another club pre Munich 58. Sounds awful but to a suspicious soul like myself collective grief and stuff like this really is a marketing mans dream. For those that disagree I'll bet their are younger members reading this who are completely unaware of the other 3 major footballing disasters of the past 50 years.

[Mr Maureen]

Now that we have all mourned the Hillsborough disaster yet again and had God only knows how many minutes silences (I endured 3 this weekend) how long will it all continue. I'm not wanting to be heartless but exactly when does the city of Lpool and the popular press and media encourage us all to mourn those lost in the disaster at Heyschell (and Bradford and Glasgow for that matter too with regard to the press and media)? According to the myths now deeply ingrained in the scouse psyche all the mickey mousers were completely and totally blameless at Hillborough no matter how late / p1ssed up they were and no matter where they got their tickets from hmmm but they bloody well weren't in Belgium were they? So do we have a minutes silence every year for them? Do we hell! Nope the 39 dead Italians were again all the fault of negligent authorities weren't they?

No doubt I'll be lambasted for suggesting such a thing but am I the only one who suspects that after seeing the meteorological success that Man Utd have gained by milking Munich 58 for all it is worth that the 'men in grey suits' behind Liverpool FC are seeking to utilise this by employing the same tactic but in this case in the name of the Hillsborough dead? Remember MU were just another club pre Munich 58. Sounds awful but to a suspicious soul like myself collective grief and stuff like this really is a marketing mans dream. For those that disagree I'll bet their are younger members reading this who are completely unaware of the other 3 major footballing disasters of the past 50 years.

Scousers have never accepted the slightest bit of blame for either Heysel or Hillsborough in both instances it was someone elses fault.

The whole justice for Hillsborough campaign is a smokescreen to detract from the truth.The scousers know the truth and have to live with it every day.

Oh and Micheal Shields is innocent.

[Guest Vinjay606]

What I found particularly hypocritical was Liverpool fans moaning when Juventus fans refused to accept their apology. Liverpool fans haven't been forgiving at all (not that they should be) but it is hypocritical to request forgiveness from Juventus when they can't forgive themselves.

I am aware of the other disasters (Bolton Wanderers I believe have also suffered such an event) but in the past week (and prior to that) I have noted that to the media they somehow aren't as relevant. Liverpool may have been top in the death count but any event with multiple deaths should be treated with equal significance.

As for Man United exploiting the Munich deaths just sums up what a vile club they are.

[Roost]

Now that we have all mourned the Hillsborough disaster yet again and had God only knows how many minutes silences (I endured 3 this weekend) how long will it all continue. I'm not wanting to be heartless but exactly when does the city of Lpool and the popular press and media encourage us all to mourn those lost in the disaster at Heyschell (and Bradford and Glasgow for that matter too with regard to the press and media)? According to the myths now deeply ingrained in the scouse psyche all the mickey mousers were completely and totally blameless at Hillborough no matter how late / p1ssed up they were and no matter where they got their tickets from hmmm but they bloody well weren't in Belgium were they? So do we have a minutes silence every year for them? Do we hell! Nope the 39 dead Italians were again all the fault of negligent authorities weren't they?

No doubt I'll be lambasted for suggesting such a thing but am I the only one who suspects that after seeing the meteorological success that Man Utd have gained by milking Munich 58 for all it is worth that the 'men in grey suits' behind Liverpool FC are seeking to utilise this by employing the same tactic but in this case in the name of the Hillsborough dead? Remember MU were just another club pre Munich 58. Sounds awful but to a suspicious soul like myself collective grief and stuff like this really is a marketing mans dream. For those that disagree I'll bet their are younger members reading this who are completely unaware of the other 3 major footballing disasters of the past 50 years.

Your best post for some time Nod - I could not agree more.

[broadsword]

meteorological success that Man Utd have gained

Man Utd have had a lot of success with the weather?

Yes, Man Utd have a very large following and part of that global following is down to the sympathy they received post-Munich. And yes, Hillsborough isn't the only football disaster in recent memory. Staircase 13, Valley Parade, Heysel I'm sure there's more as well. I can't account for why Munich and Hillsborough get such prominence over the others, but I'd like to think it's nothing to do with marketing departments.

You're so cynical it's just not true, everything seems to be a conspiracy theory in your eyes, or so it seems.

As for Hillsborough, surely the main part of the blame was the poor provision for supporter ingress?

And am I right in saying the only minute's silence was at Anfield? the way you've put it, it makes it sound like a compulsory national day of mourning.

[TimmyJimmy]

You da man thenodrog, couldn't agree more. But probably best not to say it too loudly as there might be a knock on the door at 3 in the morning from the thought police.

[thenodrog]

And am I right in saying the only minute's silence was at Anfield? the way you've put it, it makes it sound like a compulsory national day of mourning.

Sky and national tv bryan? Minutes silence impeccably observed in the Woodlands. But by the time we are asked to repeat it last night in my house for MoTD and again this morning it started to grate.

[broadsword]

Viewers at home are asked to join in? I'd just go off and make a cup of tea.

[1864roverite]

It happens every year. Liverpool cant poosibly play on the date, they MUST have a televised game against inferior opposition for a mauling AT HOME, they MUST have the back pages of the media rolled out with stories from the likes of KD and the like.

Its a sorry tale there is not a shred of doubt about it.

There is an element of sorrow and compassion but a serious reluctance to accept part of the blame for the sad episode in Sheffield whereas the "Top Cop" on the day was made the scapegoat for the actions of others.

Heysel ? Just who was to blame ? The Liverppol fans, The Italians ? The weather ? or the kick off time ? No matter what, a large amount of people lost their lives.

Bradford City ? Well, what is the difference ? A sad loss of life in another tragedy. Mention Rangers, mention the recent tragedy in South Africa.

No one really takes the blame do they ?

The money men make MONEY out of tragedy. United did and will continue to do so

Liverpool are following the footsteps set out before them by Munich.

I couldnt agree more Gordon.

[T4E]

Decent post Gordon, hopefully we wont see it taken off track by some of our members desperation to be offended.

Not sure I share your cynicism, but I wholeheartedly agree on your view on the hypocrisy. Its really quite astounding. Part of me wonders whether certain people in Liverpool (unconnected in terms of grief, obviously), were pleased to have another tragedy occur that they could attribute blame elsewhere for in order to help distract from Heysel. Its worked like a dream - like you say, a good number of young football fans probably know nothing of Heysel (or the other examples you give).

Man Utd have had a lot of success with the weather?

Somewhat ironic given the cause of the Munich air crash.

[broadsword]

I don't remember anything about the twentieth anniversary of Valley Parade 3 years ago.

But the paper today was chocka with stuff about Hillsborough.

There's definitely an inconsistency in my mind.

[ABBEY]

scousers have the copyright for "look at us were self pity wallowers" life goes on but they dont.

[jodrell]

The Hillsborough story has been getting to me for a number of years now. As people have said the scousers don’t take any blame for it why do they have to make it a public holiday and all other clubs have to bow down to them because the don’t want to play on that day. Its all right for them to have a go at the mancs with anti Munich /George Best chants but if other fans have a go at them it’s a crime. Another point is that after the event they all wanted all seated stadiums for safety yet they cant be bothered to sit down themselves and are still trying to get there mates in for free. As for the minute silence I have had to do a lot of channel swapping this weekend

[RovertheHill]

I think it's desperately sad that people see the commemoration of the 20th anniversary of the loss of many people's lives, or indeed the 50th anniversary of Munich, as marketing gimmicks. Sad because it shows how cynical we've become, but also sad because there is an element of truth in it. And the problem is, I believe, the media - who create the demand for this sort of thing and then, surprise surprise, provide the papers and programmes to service it. No surprise though that only the biggest of the big like Man Utd and Liverpool get this treatment.

If you look at Heysel, it is a fact that many in Liverpool have done their best to blame the decrepit state of the ground and the poor ticket allocation. Both of these are true but would have been of little consequence if there had been no thuggery.

I believe that the Bradford City shirt always has an element of black trim to it, which serves as a permanent memorial to the Bradford stadium tragedy. That seems like a fitting and dignified tribute to those fans who lost their lives.

[adam]

Poor Old Boris got a mauling in press etc for daring to express similar sentiments!

Totally Agree. with him and this board!

[broadsword]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/4372230.stm

[Sandman]

Now that we have all mourned the Hillsborough disaster yet again and had God only knows how many minutes silences (I endured 3 this weekend) how long will it all continue. I'm not wanting to be heartless but exactly when does the city of Lpool and the popular press and media encourage us all to mourn those lost in the disaster at Heyschell (and Bradford and Glasgow for that matter too with regard to the press and media)? According to the myths now deeply ingrained in the scouse psyche all the mickey mousers were completely and totally blameless at Hillborough no matter how late / p1ssed up they were and no matter where they got their tickets from hmmm but they bloody well weren't in Belgium were they? So do we have a minutes silence every year for them? Do we hell! Nope the 39 dead Italians were again all the fault of negligent authorities weren't they?

No doubt I'll be lambasted for suggesting such a thing but am I the only one who suspects that after seeing the meteorological success that Man Utd have gained by milking Munich 58 for all it is worth that the 'men in grey suits' behind Liverpool FC are seeking to utilise this by employing the same tactic but in this case in the name of the Hillsborough dead? Remember MU were just another club pre Munich 58. Sounds awful but to a suspicious soul like myself collective grief and stuff like this really is a marketing mans dream. For those that disagree I'll bet their are younger members reading this who are completely unaware of the other 3 major footballing disasters of the past 50 years.

This could well be one of the stupidest posts i've ever seen, first of all Man Utd have never milked the Munich air disaster that is something thats thrown at them out of pure bitterness, they were already the most supported club in the country by the time it happened and for the two seasons leading upto the disaster already had the highest attendances in the country and as someone who who was around during that time i can also tell you they weren't just another club before the disaster the Busby Babes were the most famous team in the country and young kids from different parts of the country loved them. After the Munich air disaster their crowds actually went down but were still the highest in the country.

I appologise if i'm going on here but i'm actually dumbstruck at how ignorant you're, do you not expect clubs that have had things like this happen to acknowledge them, what about Torino in Italy have they milked their disaster, after all they even had postage stamps with the team on to mark the tragedy, and every year they all go to where it happened to remeber them they've probably done more than United have over the years but you're not including them in your pathetic post, why aren't they the most famous club in the world if all it takes is tragedy to make any old club famous. Could it have something to do with Busby not just rebuilding the club but bringing a team together that finished what they started and included footballs first real superstar in Best.

Now why why don't you give us an indepth breakdown of what United have done to milk Munich and what Liverpool are doing to milk Hillsborough you sad pathetic tit.

The only people to milk this sort of thing are the press, i'm sure someone as clued up as you knows that, i mean look at your post it just oozes knowledge on all things.

And Tugay4England, What exactly is amusing about the loss of not just great players, most of whom were in their early twenties and had young families, but most of those lads were a loss to English football as a whole, i grew up around the corner from Ewood park and it wasn't just United who lost something special, i had the pleasure of seeing them lads play for their country and for some jumped up little coward to sit at a keyboard and mock them is a disgrace.

[roversmum]

YOUR post is a disgrace, Sandman. You obviously have differing views from others, but there is no need for name-calling, surely you can put your points in an adult and logical manner without the insults.

[thenodrog]

YOUR post is a disgrace, Sandman. You obviously have differing views from others, but there is no need for name-calling, surely you can put your points in an adult and logical manner without the insults.

A rather typical response from a plastic rmum. I expect nothing better.

btw "but i'm actually dumbstruck at how ignorant you're"

[JC4LAB]

No one ever pays an annual homage to the Bradford Fire which was just as bad.as Hillsboro..

[thenodrog]

No one ever pays an annual homage to the Bradford Fire which was just as bad.as Hillsboro..

I think it's probable that plenty will and one or two from the Bradford Argos even, but the worlds press and media will not be there in plane loads will they?

[Paul Mellelieu]

Imagine if the Rovers, at the top of their powers in the early 90s had suffered such a tragedy. Close to a hundred Rovers fans killed through no fault of their own, and with no-one taking responsibility. Every Rovers supporter would know, or know of someone, who had been killed, or who were nearly crushed to death. Each year the town would remember those who died, after setting out, like we all do, on a Saturday to watch our team. Twenty years after the event we would want to remember those who died. Why should Liverpool fans be any different?

Most of the posts here show a deep lack of humanity and respect. Shame on you.

A good link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/ap...shire-liverpool

[Alan75]

How many of you remember or even know of a Rovers tragedy 19th January1952.

[Al]

I too believe it is time to stop all this Hillsborough nonsense. Typical of Liverpool's 'Self pity City' attitude. Even Manchester United have stopped milking the Munich disaster even though it is without doubt the main reason that they are the most 'supported' club in the world. There was even a suggestion at the time that the European Cup be re-named the 'Manchester United Cup'.

[Guest Vinjay606]

I believe there is an annual service held in Bradford but media coverage dosen't seem to extend beyond local boundaries. I saw the subject brought up on 606 and one of their fans said something about preferring the privacy...plus them not being as big a club as Liverpool. It's still human lifes though isn't it no matter what league status a club has.

Nothing I can recall about a 1952 disaster at the moment.

See what type of club Manchester United are? Article detailing Man United's poor treatment of the survivors.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/3...-of-Munich.html