[Archived] Stoke City Preview 18th April

[tony gale's mic]

In fact almost as amusing as the early Ince detractors being Sam's cheerleaders.

As I understood it, leaving aside Ince's first 8 games, the issues were:

- too many players selected out of position

- too many injuries (inferred crap training)

- clueless tactics

- the longer Ince was in charge, the worse we got

- defensive shambles

- crap at signings

Leaving aside Allardyces first 8 games, the issues are:

- too many players selected out of position

- too many injuries (now it appears we have a bunch of fat crocks)

- clueless tactics

- the more Sam has imposed his 'style' the worse we have got

- attacking shambles

- good at signings, but the owners chose not to give him any money

But for Newcastle and Middlesbrough kindly winning only 1 game each during the entirety of Allardyces reign to date, we would not have clawed free, for a while, as surely they cannot go to the end of the season like that. Kidd got us from bottom to 14th at one stage - did that make him a good manager?

The fact is, we are a vehicle for a vain and ambitious man desperate to prove Newcastle wrong, and that his 'tactics' work, irrespective of the players on the books.

Jesus. The myopic ex-Paulettes are out in force again.

Ince's tenure was clueless in attack, midfield and defence. Allardyce's tenure has been pretty good in defence (apart from the odd shambles), but limited in attack and midfield.

Let's compare the tables of the Allardyce and Ince era though:

Ince:

Allardyce:

BETTER goals record (if only marginally), MUCH BETTER goals against record, MUCH BETTER points record. We've been very solidly mid table in form over his tenure and a whole TEN points better off than the team who have been the third worst team in the league in those 16 games (Newcastle)...in fact before the Liverpool game we were 7th over those 14 games where he'd taken charge, ahead of Villa.

Like I said Sam is a somewhat limited manager and I still back my decision not to have supported him when it came to picking a new manager after Hughes. I don't especially like the man either. But he was the right choice when it came to sacking the man you so dearly loved, and overall he has done a good job. To claim there's little difference between the two regimes is absolutely incredible and is another display of the sheer lack of insight some people on here had between the months of August and mid-December.

Sure the football hasn't been pretty, but noone expected it would be. Sure we've got points luckily in a couple of games lately, but then we were unlucky earlier in his tenure with some of our performances.

[OJRovers]

A quick question about Rory DeLap's throw-ins:

- Between the ball going out and him throwing it is at least 30 seconds each time, with defenders running up etc

- If a player was stood on the touchline with the ball above his head for 30 seconds waiting for movement, he would likely be whistled and the throw given the other way or even booked if the team is winning and its near the end of game.

- What is different in DeLap's case??

- Surely every time a team goes a goal up and gets a throw-in anywhere on the pitch they could go through the whole; wipe the ball, move players up, etc etc which would waste 30 sec / a minute each time??

I think the refs need to clamp down on Stoke for this.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

No passing, no creativity, no pride, no passion, no midfield, no shots, no football, no hope, no Premier League.

THIS is Sam Allardyce's Blackburn Rovers.

[jim mk2]

Critics of Allardyce have forgotten that Rovers under Ince were a complete basket case. Nice football at times but the club was in freefall when Williams reluctantly sacked him.

The Spurs and Stoke games were horrible to watch but if Rovers somehow survive this season Allardyce will be feted as a saviour.

The time to judge him him will be next season when (hopefully) he has his 7 or more of own players on board.

[sambo]

Last night I would have happily seen Big Sam sacked. I probably feel the same now.

That was woeful, inept, disgraceful. Should have chanted "we want our money back".

Can't believe some players have the audacity to look at the fans after the game.

Embarassed to support them "players", although proud of the fans.

On 'delilahs', their forum, said one of the best away atmospheres all year.

I blame the board, Ince, Sam, and the players. Fuming still.

[tony gale's mic]

Yep, Sam inherited a side in freefall and has got them upto solid mid-table form since. Definitely worthy of talk of the sack and definitely not a kneejerk reaction from some people on here.

[Exiled in Toronto]

But he was the right choice when it came to sacking the man you so dearly loved, and overall he has done a good job.

I love Blackburn Rovers mate, not whichever of the 16 managers I have witnessed happens to be in charge at the time, and I have NEVER been so embarrassed and annoyed like I have for the last 3 matches, Spurs match included.

Incompetent managers I can live with, that's life; it's the ones who deliberately trample 'Arte et Labore' into the mud I can't.

[John]

I also find it pretty amusing that some of the people who so stubbornly backed Ince almost to the end are the first ones laying so much of the blame at Allardyce's door this time round.

Very true, the Ince loyal are well and truly laying into Big Sam...

[47er]

Very true, the Ince loyal are well and truly laying into Big Sam...

Must have been spewing the last few months with us doing quite well!

[Mozzer]

i cant believe some people are still questioning the appointment of sam allardyce...

under paul ince we was dead and buried-its not allardyce's fault he has inherited this team-a team struggling with injuries who dont have the biggest squad anyway..hes doing the best he can with a bad bunch..

if we lost to stoke at home id probably understand the fans fraustration-but losing to stoke on their own patch were they have only been beaten 3 times this season by everton, chelsea and man utd isnt such a shame..

next weekend is very important..

hull play liverpool at home

middlesbrough play arsenal away

newcastle play portsmouth at home

[tony gale's mic]

I love Blackburn Rovers mate, not whichever of the 16 managers I have witnessed happens to be in charge at the time, and I have NEVER been so embarrassed and annoyed like I have for the last 3 matches, Spurs match included.

Incompetent managers I can live with, that's life; it's the ones who deliberately trample 'Arte et Labore' into the mud I can't.

He's doing nothing of the sort. The table doesn't lie, and both ones I posted are over enough games and have enough disparity between them to tell their own story.

Ince inherited a side which had finished 7th, had a summer transfer window and some cash to spend and during his time here we were 19th in the league.

Allardyce inherited a side which were 19th and in a real mess, had a January transfer window, very little cash to spend and over his time here we've been 11th best in the league.

I'm not a fan of his methods but we were never going to do this attractively. Part of the reason the teams around us are close is because they've had easier games so far but when you look at the run in ours is considerably easier compared to some as I've posted in the other thread. Sam could have done better while he's been here, no doubt, he's shown his strengths and his limitations. But he's done a good job overall.

[Exiled in Toronto]

He's doing nothing of the sort. The table doesn't lie, and both ones I posted are over enough games and have enough disparity between them to tell their own story.

Ince inherited a side which had finished 7th, had a summer transfer window and some cash to spend and during his time here we were 19th in the league.

Allardyce inherited a side which were 19th and in a real mess, had a January transfer window, very little cash to spend and over his time here we've been 11th best in the league.

I'm not a fan of his methods but we were never going to do this attractively. Part of the reason the teams around us are close is because they've had easier games so far but when you look at the run in ours is considerably easier compared to some as I've posted in the other thread. Sam could have done better while he's been here, no doubt, he's shown his strengths and his limitations. But he's done a good job overall.

Are you blind man? What have you seen RECENTLY to give you hope? The early Allardyce results, when we weren't playing as he likes us to play now, are looking more and more like a dead cat bounce rather than a turnaround.

[1864roverite]

Let this be the final word where Ince is concerned.

Under him Rovers were rudderless, hopeless, clueless and there was absolutely NO CONFIDENCE in him, his ways or his idiotic backroom methods. We struggled and were dropping faster than a bucket load of cement.

Under Sam, we still at time appear hopelss and clueless but at least we have a rudder guiding although warily and wearily towards safety. he certainly seems to have the confidence of the majority of supporters.

Sam has a job to do this season and that is KEEP US UP, if he does then its job done as far as I am concerned. It matteers not who you think is to blame, once the season is safe and over we can move forward and forget everything associated with Paul Ince and his merry men.

For those who still love Ince and co, ask yourselves this one question. Which club is he managing now after his successful stint at Ewood ? The answer is he isnt is he ? Reason for that is because he is bloody useless or toherwise someone else would have employed him.

My hope is for us to survive, I just cannot see it yet unless we get a large slice of luck and other results fate our way. I have never ever thought of shouting another teams name and here I fond myself shouting come on Spurs, Come on Pompy and the like just to see the likes of Boro and Barcodes united just get beat. its sad because as of this moment in time I have no confiedne in Rovers securing a 3 point haul in the game versus Wigan and god forbid me ever having to think that way again.

I mean Wigan, its bloody pieland fc for petes sake and they are way way ahead of us in the league.

Thtas how sad our plight has become be it blame Ince, JW or Sam, or indeed Hughes and co and the clubs owners.

This summer expect the good ship BRFC to undergo an overhaul like never seen before. The roots are going to ripped out, the dead wood is going to be shedded once and for all and a series of rockets are going to find themselves nestling in certain players backsides if they want to remain part of the furniture at Ewood.

[tony gale's mic]

Are you blind man? What have you seen RECENTLY to give you hope? The early Allardyce results, when we weren't playing as he likes us to play now, are looking more and more like a dead cat bounce rather than a turnaround.

Recently? Not very much but every side goes through poor form and suffers from injury crises like we're going through now. I've also got hope from the fact we've ground out results from ropey performances. Spurs - our poor performance before may have been put down to Allardyce but would we have got those two goals were it not for the direct route one methods of sticking Samba up top? Would Ince's side which rolled over all to easily have shown the same battling spirit?

Before Liverpool we had that Spurs game, before that we had a West Ham game we dominated but only drew, a poor show against Arsenal, a spirited comeback vs Fulham, a pretty average home draw vs a weakened Everton, a win at Hull, an embarassing cup exit to Coventry and a great display at Old Trafford. So yeah, a mix but overall satisfactory at the very least and considering that Man U was a whole two months after Sam's entrance, none of those good spots can be put down to a new manager bounce.

[Majiball]

He's doing nothing of the sort. The table doesn't lie, and both ones I posted are over enough games and have enough disparity between them to tell their own story.

Ince inherited a side which had finished 7th, had a summer transfer window and some cash to spend and during his time here we were 19th in the league.

Allardyce inherited a side which were 19th and in a real mess, had a January transfer window, very little cash to spend and over his time here we've been 11th best in the league.

I'm not a fan of his methods but we were never going to do this attractively. Part of the reason the teams around us are close is because they've had easier games so far but when you look at the run in ours is considerably easier compared to some as I've posted in the other thread. Sam could have done better while he's been here, no doubt, he's shown his strengths and his limitations. But he's done a good job overall.

Recently? Not very much but every side goes through poor form and suffers from injury crises like we're going through now. I've also got hope from the fact we've ground out results from ropey performances. Spurs - our poor performance before may have been put down to Allardyce but would we have got those two goals were it not for the direct route one methods of sticking Samba up top? Would Ince's side which rolled over all to easily have shown the same battling spirit?

Before Liverpool we had that Spurs game, before that we had a West Ham game we dominated but only drew, a poor show against Arsenal, a spirited comeback vs Fulham, a pretty average home draw vs a weakened Everton, a win at Hull, an embarassing cup exit to Coventry and a great display at Old Trafford. So yeah, a mix but overall satisfactory at the very least and considering that Man U was a whole two months after Sam's entrance, none of those good spots can be put down to a new manager bounce.

He's right we have our destiny in our own hands and we do, even if Newcastle win today. Yes we've done badly and I've been very vocal but we are better off under Sam than we where under Ince and thats the best we could have hoped for. We should stay up we do have one of the easier run ins and Sam's been here before so he knows the score.

Don't forget he had to shuffle the pack to get players in and those he has brought in have made a telling contribution in getting us out of the bottom three.

Yes the last two games have been awful and whilst I don't agree with the approach especially yesterdays, the last two games have been on paper where difficult challenges. We're doing better at home under Sam, with some more than winnable fixtures coming up we have a good chance. I would have taken that before christmas, where sorry we where down and out.

There's only one goal thats staying up, by whatever means nessacery, just like when Hughes came in. Once Sam gets in more players for whatever style he adopts next year we can start nit-picking.

[Exiled in Toronto]

A thought that has just occurred to me: I wonder how many of the Stoke team we set out to hang on for a 0-0 against earn more than any of our players on show yesterday. I'm guessing maybe one - Beattie perhaps earning more than Andrews.

[Eddie]

Allardyce inherited a side which were 19th and in a real mess, had a January transfer window, very little cash to spend and over his time here we've been 11th best in the league.

Allardyce and Ince had nearly the same amount of time to buy players, although buying in January is obviously more difficult. When you factor in the time Allardyce had to assess the squad and then the month to make the transfers it almost evens out. He had very little cash, but so did Ince apart from the Bentley transfer revenue. Allardyce had the opportunity to raise even more cash for himself by selling Santa Cruz had he wanted (and anyone who doesn't believe we couldn't have sold him and done it in good time had we wanted to is foolish in my mind). Of course Allardyce came in a tough situation, but he isn't exactly doing the best job possible at getting us out of it. He had us out, we were clear and his own incompetence has dragged us back in. There's no real reason why we should be this close to the drop given where we were a few weeks ago. We shouldn't be nervously looking at every match around us hoping for results to go our way. After that Newcastle win Allardyce boldly stated that we were now in a position where everything was in our own hands...let's hope he doesn't drop the ball.

[American]

Allardyce did a great job to get us 5 points away from the drop.

That being said, if we go down from that position, he is the one to blame.

[Dan]

For the people defending Sam: Do you not agree that it's his tactics that are causing at least half the problems? We've play @#/? for 3 matches, the last two matches we haven't tested the goalkeeper and never ever looked like scoring. Stoke were very poor, we wouldn't have scored against them if we had played for another 5 hours. Who do the optimists think we are able to beat? West Brom looks maybe doable but to be honest that wou;d be a close match in my opinion.

We are ###### poor and we'll be very lucky not to go down. The lack of investment is killing the club, JW's crazy appointment of Ince was just the catalyst.

[LeChuck]

What an awful, awful game. Andrews, Givet and Robinson were all pathetic for the goal. The entire game were pathetic in attack.

On a slightly different note, Fuller just confirmed to me what I've been saying since his Preston days; brilliant player.

[tony gale's mic]

For the people defending Sam: Do you not agree that it's his tactics that are causing at least half the problems? We've play @#/? for 3 matches, the last two matches we haven't tested the goalkeeper and never ever looked like scoring. Stoke were very poor, we wouldn't have scored against them if we had played for another 5 hours. Who do the optimists think we are able to beat? West Brom looks maybe doable but to be honest that wou;d be a close match in my opinion.

We are ###### poor and we'll be very lucky not to go down. The lack of investment is killing the club, JW's crazy appointment of Ince was just the catalyst.

And what about the game before the Spurs game when we dominated an in form West Ham at Ewood and were unlucky not to win? Sam has got it wrong in the last two games but look at the bigger picture, during his time here he's done a good job. And remember the last two games were against Liverpool and a side with the THIRD best home record in the league.

Like I said in another thread, anything over 38 points is pretty likely to see us to safety. We're still odds-on to do that.

[Dan]

And what about the game before the Spurs game when we dominated an in form West Ham at Ewood and were unlucky not to win? Sam has got it wrong in the last two games but look at the bigger picture, during his time here he's done a good job. And remember the last two games were against Liverpool and a side with the THIRD best home record in the league.

Like I said in another thread, anything over 38 points is pretty likely to see us to safety. We're still odds-on to do that.

If we choose the team that started against Stoke, are you confident of beating Wigan, portsmouth, Citeh or West Brom? I'm not! We were unlucky against a poor West Ham team, the next three games we were awful, truly awful. Got very very vs Spurs.

[broadsword]

We need a striker worthy of the name and a decent midfielder playing if we're to get any more points.

Otherwise we're doomed.

[John]

One of the few positives, but thought Nelsen was great yesterday. I think he really enjoys those type of games.

[JAL]

One of the few positives, but thought Nelsen was great yesterday. I think he really enjoys those type of games.

Nelsen attempted THREE forward passes yesterday in the second half which were of the poorest quality possible with none reaching there intended target, people are going overboard about Nelsen after all he was only up against James Beattie.