[Archived] Stoke City Preview 18th April

[thenodrog]

Well I can't argue with that then can I! I'll say this once, just because you didn't have the sense to either debate the issue or stay out, we've gone head-to-head in the past few weeks a few times (as well as me against a few other posters) and I think over the past few months my record shows that I probably know enough about football to justify me having an opinion on a football messageboard (Santa Cruz, Fulham, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs and based on the changing tide on this messageboard: Allardyce). Let's not insult each others footballing knowledge, you have no idea what I know about football, debate the issue and save those comments for the forum you helped get shut down.

I knew you could have no response to my requesting you to explain Stoke's remarkeable home record.

[Eddie]

Their home record is very impressive. They are organised and defend well and have had a bit of luck at home. Obviously it isn't the easiest place to go and, as flimsy as this is, I think there are times in sports where you just have to say that certain years people will perform well home or away but that doesn't change how good of a side they are. Stoke are a poor premiership side and have fought very hard to stay up, but I'd still bet on them to go down next season, even to finish bottom. Our home record is terrible, but I would still say that we aren't a better side away from home then we are at home. It's the same reason why I felt Fulham away was an easier game than Spurs at home. Sometimes you just have to assess the team, forget the venue and play the match. Stoke won't have the same home record next season.

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

Stop ranting about Rafa and for God's sake sort out the mess in our team, Mr Allardyce....

Saturday's devastating result and bitterly disappointing performance is clearly indicative of major problems within our club. The warning signs however were clear to me on the Friday before the game when our manager appeared to be preoccupied with attacking Rafa Benitez rather than fully focusing his attention on a massively vital game.

Another warning sign on the Friday was Big Sam describing the Stoke match as a "must-not-lose game" - rather than saying that Rovers are going to the Britannia Stadium desperately trying to win the match to get 3 crucial points.

Saturday's match was a turgid affair between two poor teams. It was a drab attempt from Allardyce to grind out an ugly draw. Ultimately it wasn't successful and shamefully Rovers didn't create a single good opportunity or shot on goal.

Allardyce described it as a "must-not-lose game". But we did lose. So where does that leave us now then Mr Allardyce?

The game against Wigan now becomes our most important home match at Ewood for many years and it's a game that Rovers desperately need to get 3 points from. The Rovers players need to be on the front foot and put pressure on Wigan from the opening minute.

I noticed that Alan Shearer before today's match with Spurs at White Hart Lane also described the match as a "must-not-lose game". His team ended up losing 1-0 as well after negative tactics, particularly in the first half.

Perhaps the warning signs for the current mess that Rovers are in should have been clear to us all a lot earlier than on Friday. More than a year ago back in the January transfer window of 2008 there was a failure to invest after selling Robbie Savage. The club trustees seem to think they can keep the club in the Premiership on a shoestring. In the summer of 2008 Mark Hughes walked out on the club, frustrated by the lack of investment available to him.

With hindsight the current mess is all too predictable. Some of us on here did try to warn of the potentially disastrous consequences of a lack of funds in the transfer market to strengthen the team. Others seemed to have their heads buried in the sand and often praised John Williams' leadership, believing that with Mr Williams in charge we would not be in danger of relegation.

The disastrous decision by Mr Williams and the Rovers board to appoint an inexperienced and unqualified boss from League Two with inadequate man-management skills was a reckless gamble with the long-term future of Blackburn Rovers FC. At the end of the season I would like Mr Williams to hold up his hands and admit that the Ince appointment was a catastrophic blunder.

Playing for a draw isn't good enough. Negative attitude from management which is clearly rubbing off on the players.

Agreed.

It's understandable when Rovers play away against teams like Man United, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea to want to keep things tight, get men behind the ball and try to grind out an unexpected draw and a bonus point. But in a vital relegation six-pointer against a mediocre team promoted last season from the Championship it was very disappointing to see such a negative attitude from the team and a failure to create a single worthwhile shot on goal.

Let's hope before the Wigan game next Sunday that Mr Allardyce isn't preoccupied during the week with watching more video clips of innocuous gestures from Rafa Benitez at Anfield. Big Sam complained: "It was open arms and then a crossover of the arms as if to suggest that was it."

I'd suggest that of far greater concern to Allardyce at the moment, rather than worrying about whether Rafa is crossing his arms or not, should be the shambolic performance of his team at Anfield followed by the woeful display at the Britannia Stadium where Rovers failed to have a worthy effort on goal.

But we have a manager who is so bereft of tactical awareness - beyond the hump and chase

I noticed that Sam was bigging himself up again a couple of months ago in an interview with the BBC, where he was once again insisting that he should have got the England manager's job. Not since Cloughie has anybody bragged so much about how they should have become the England manager. The difference is that Clough won a League title and two European Cups with a provincial club. What has Sam won so far?

The one time that Sam came close to winning a trophy was in the 2004 Carling Cup final when his Bolton team were outclassed and outpassed by Steve McClaren's Middlesbrough - not that I'm suggesting that Steve McClown is a great manager.

Sam strikes me as the type of manager who when his team plays well he thinks it's down to him for his tactical acumen. When his team plays poorly it's not down to him, but because the players don't carry out his instructions, as he claimed after the Anfield shambles.

Perhaps Sam thinks that if he had got the England manager's job he would have won the European Championships in 2008 and would by now be on course to win the World Cup in 2010 by whacking long balls upfield to Peter Crouch.

Sam is the Messiah isn't he? That's what he'd like us to think. He never admits that he's wrong when we lose but likes to take the credit when we win.

I should emphasise that Sam is a big improvement on Ince the clown, who didn't have a clue what he was doing, but I do have concerns about our future under Sam. His ugly percentage football is often torture to watch for the supporters.

Did Sam not care about the 3,000 Rovers fans who travelled to Stoke and witnessed such an ugly and ultimately futile attempt to grind out a draw by not having a single shot on goal for 90 minutes in a massive relegation battle?

The fans have been terrific today, but what a let down by the players.

I would like to add to your quote a bit. The fans have been terrific, but what a let down by the players, the managers this season and the club owners - all of whom have to take their share of responsibility for the current shambles.

The midfield is dreadful.

Absolutely. In fairness to Sam we've got major problems which largely boils down to a lack of investment and poor signings from the previous management - eg Andrews. Den used to say "Buy Championship players and get Championship football."

In the summer we went out and bought a guy from League Two - so where does that leave us?

Keith Andrews seems to be a pleasant Irishman and I would never boo him. But his passing of the ball is not good enough at the moment for Premiership football and he made a dreadful mistake in giving the ball away to Stoke in a dangerous area of the field.

I'm begining to wonder if perhaps being relegated would not be a bad thing!!!

I completely disagree.

You're entitled to your views, but my own view is that relegation would be a total unmitigated disaster for Rovers. Look at Charlton, who were held up in the media in previous years as being a model of a well-run club and who have now been relegated to League One. Look at Southampton, another former Premiership club who look likely to drop into League One. Once a team slips it can be a long and ugly downward spiral.

For Rovers, the consequences of relegation to the Championship would be disastrous.

[modes98]

I always thought we woudl get something from the game dispite their amazing home record, which is better than Fulham's and on a par with chelsea and arsenal.

What got to me was the complete lack of fight. It seemed a case of we came for 0-0 and if we let one in we were stuffed. That could have been helped if we had picked a reserve striker for the bench, having an inexperienced striker on the pitch is of far more value than having Villanueva on his own up front. That's not to say that carlos isn't a gd player but that he should never be used in that role. Equally using Benni Mc in the lone striker role is of no use, and by playing Diouf just off him it negated the threat of balls in from the right.

What topped the game off is when Villanueva, probably the best dead ball player we have, gave up a corner to Diouf who then proceeded to deftly chip both at the front post defender and that was the end of the game.

Still i am confident we will stay up, more through the inability of newcastle to pick up points.

[Majiball]

Stop ranting about Rafa and for God's sake sort out the mess in our team, Mr Allardyce....

I completely disagree.

You're entitled to your views, but my own view is that relegation would be a total unmitigated disaster for Rovers. Look at Charlton, who were held up in the media in previous years as being a model of a well-run club and who have now been relegated to League One. Look at Southampton, another former Premiership club who look likely to drop into League One. Once a team slips it can be a long and ugly downward spiral.

For Rovers, the consequences of relegation to the Championship would be disastrous.

Fair do's

We're not Charlton or Southampton though, we do have owners with pockets and i've always wondered what instructions where left by Jack for Rovers. When we came back up we spent money at first and then once we where more established it dryed up. I've always wondered if there's a part in the instructions left that says Rovers must be in the Premiership.

I'm not saying thats what I want or thats what I believe will happen but if it did I'm not convinced it would be the end of Rovers flirtation with the premiership league. Going down would provide an excuse to clear out the crap from our club and start over, re-build the club from top to toe.

But as I said its not what I want, I just like to consider as many angles as possible. Call it thinking out loud.

[Hughesy]

Best away fans at the Brit so far....

[Rover9]

That comment about us being giddy F**kers for taking more than 600 away for the first time this season made me laugh, lets see how many they take away in five or six years time if they are still in prem. Fact is we could have sold a good few more if we had been given them. Fair play to the gracious amongst them giving us credit, but 'the loudest fans in the prem' didn't live up to there billing till they scored, but I do agree that they are a noisy bunch when they want to be.

[Blueboy Downunder]

apart from our defensive display on saturday (which was truely outstanding), the rest of the performance was truely saddening. no creativety, no end product no determination, no desire, no will to win. playing that type of football against a team that practises that style, every day....tony pulis and his players must have thought it was christmas already. we have 5 players across the middle in an attempt, that i would presume, to dominate the midfield area....but alas, for most of the game we bypass the midfield and play long and stupid balls up to a single striker who has 4 defenders and a goal keeper to contend with, and when no support is forthecoming from his midfield team mates, benni has every right to shake his head....regardless of his fitness and at times lazy attitude. 2 lads that would give us the creativety that we so need, are always sitting on the bench and the one guy who passes the ball for fun and would have stoke running round like headless chickens....doesn't even make the squad. stoke wouldn't have got anywhere near us, had we have played football aggainst them and passed it about.

[bobsterbrfc]

I'm sat at a PC in university genuinely fuming at the Potter who said we were a first division team with 1st division support!

Touchwood, we'll remain an established Premiership club for many moons if we get through this season!

[modes98]

fuming at the Potter who said we were a first division team with 1st division support!

Ironic coming from a team in it's first season up and that have only just secured their premiership status. We will see who's laughing when they do down next season.

[alexanders]

Where's your famous atmosphere - Brilliant !

[Hughesy]

Our support was class on saturday - stoke fans were crap until they scored. It was also good to see our entire away support stood up for a change and it really helped the atmosphere created by the Rovers fans (rovermum will disagree).

[Blue n White Rover]

Our support was class on saturday - stoke fans were crap until they scored. It was also good to see our entire away support stood up for a change and it really helped the atmosphere created by the Rovers fans (rovermum will disagree).

She has every right to. Bang out of order what happened, and some fans need to use their brains. Just the pure adrenaline of the game meant they didn't want to sit down, and norm to the rest of the crowd. We have supporters who are willing to come watch the Rovers regardless of their circumstances and to be treated like that is ridiculous.

[den]

Our support was class on saturday - stoke fans were crap until they scored. It was also good to see our entire away support stood up for a change and it really helped the atmosphere created by the Rovers fans (rovermum will disagree).

The seating allocated to the disabled was totally inadequate. They were put onto a flat area, on the same level as the row of seats in front of them. With the fans standing all the game they they had no chance of getting anything like a decent view. Me and Baz were on that back row and stood up behind some of the disabled people for the entire match - otherwise they wouldn't have seen a thing.

Hopefully, someone from the disabled section will complain to the Stoke City officials?

[Hughesy]

I agree it was the fault of the area allocated too.

I may of been stood next to you then Den? I too was sat infront of this area (2 rows) and moved behind the disabled fans so they could see (otherwise if I sat, then I couldnt).

[roversmum]

The stewards weren't interested over our side, Den. I understand people wanting to stand up, a couple of the ones in front of us came up behind us for the first half then went back in front of us shrugging their shoulders. I can stand, but there were several in wheelchairs who can't. And I've no idea where the smokers contingent came from. I don't like moaning (honestly!) but when you see the disabled supporters sitting there in their wheelchairs, most can't possibly appreciate how difficult it is for them and their carers to get ready and make the trip, plus the various paraphanalia that is needed. The guys on our coach are brilliant and always help with the scooter.

Fair play to Stoke for having what they obviously thought would be great disabled areas - very easy access and good views when everyone is seated but we would quite like to see the game!

[den]

I may of been stood next to you then Den? I too was sat infront of this area (2 rows) and moved behind the disabled fans so they could see (otherwise if I sat, then I couldnt).

I was talking to one other guy who had moved behind the carers - that wouldn't be you, would it?

We were fairly central, maybe slightly to the left of goal, behind the lower tier.

[Hughesy]

I never saw anyone behind the disabled fans smoking roversmum? It wasnt me or my missus anyway. We tried to get those infront of us to sit down but they wouldnt because of those infront of them stood.

When you have 12 rows infront of the disabled area, on the same viewing level as rows 12 & almost 11 then its not adequate.

[den]

Fair play to Stoke for having what they obviously thought would be great disabled areas - very easy access and good views when everyone is seated but we would quite like to see the game!

Trouble is mum, if they keep the disabled in that position, the fans will always be standing up in front of them, even if it's only when their team is attacking. One or two of the disabled asked the stewards to ask the fans to sit down, and they did ask, but they were on a loser. Someone should put that to the relevant people at Stoke. I'm sure they would take it on board.

[Hughesy]

Den's right - imagine the other teams like United, Liverpool, City, Everton etc who all stand at away games - it must happen at most home games.

So was I stood next to you then den? I was behind the disabled fans too with my missus (well she stood up for 2nd half).

[den]

Den's right - imagine the other teams like United, Liverpool, City, Everton etc who all stand at away games - it must happen at most home games.

So was I stood next to you then den? I was behind the disabled fans too with my missus (well she stood up for 2nd half).

Sounds like it. I remember one of the other two who stood up, moving to the other side of the disabled area and he brought a woman with him in the second half. She was sat two rows down in the first half and you asked her to come with you, but she didn't until the second half?

Rev was just in front of you.

[roversmum]

There were two areas, Hughsey, we were in the one nearest the tunnel on the left hand side facing the pitch. As I didn't see Den I assume you were in the other one.

The Key is to provide disabled areas where the disabled supporters have a reasonable view and anyone sitting/standing in front does not get in the way. Of course, even if supporters sit, they will naturally jump up if they think a goal is coming or for a corner. So the area needs to be set up in a certain way. They've actually got a paper on it and much more here on this sitein the Downloads section.

Of course, Rovers prides itself on the number of places for disabled supporters but that is simply putting the wheelchair bound at the front of the seating areas. Whilst this is well and good when the play happens to be close it is very difficult for some to follow the match due to movement limitations. It also can be rather wet - and no doubt you will recall there have been some rather soggy matches this season. Personally I would like to see some quality places for the wheelchair bound on a higher level. I have further ideas for the development of the Fraser Eagle stand regarding these matters should it ever come to fruition but don't get me started on those.

It all costs money for the clubs though, and I can understand their reluctance to think things through particularly on behalf of away disabled supporters who are often forced to sit with the home club disabled fans - and in seasons like the one we are experiencing that can be somewhat daunting.

It could well be that if the Darwen End sells well Wigan, Portsmouth and West Brom may well have disabled supporters sitting at the front of our own fans. I hope those sitting there will treat them with respect (which was more than we were at Portsmouth )

[Hughesy]

Yeah thats the one Den.

I agree 100% with you roversmum, but I dont think you can blame the fans. Like you say 'The Key is to provide disabled areas where the disabled supporters have a reasonable view and anyone sitting/standing in front does not get in the way'

STOKE didnt do that as supporters were in the way, and even if sat down, naturally if anything exciting happened they would jump up in the way too.

[Paul]

I agree it was the fault of the area allocated too.

I may of been stood next to you then Den? I too was sat infront of this area (2 rows) and moved behind the disabled fans so they could see (otherwise if I sat, then I couldnt).

Sorry Hughesy you couldn't be more wrong. It is the fault of the people who stood up. I have no objection to people standing, I did for the whole game as did both my sons (we had no choice if we wanted to see). Tom who is ambulant disabled is very short and saw very little of the match as a result. Those who chose to stand in front of the wheel chair disabled need to realise the problem they cause. The stand is designed for sitting and provides good views for the wheelchair users, if people stand up it negates the stand design.

I would agree the design might take this sort of thing into consideration but the fans need to consdier those around them as well

[blue phil]

Coincidentally my party was also on Row 12 . I'm a strong critic of those who stand with no regard for those behind them but in a case like this when the whole of the crowd was standing it was totally unrealistic to ask those in front to sit down and expect a favourable reply .

There were a few stewards stood nearby but they didn't even attempt to make people sit down ; they would have been wasting their breath .

IMO it's entirely the fault of the stadium authorities for putting the disabled in such an area and it's disgraceful that they should get away with it . No doubt they'd put the blame on the "standers" but that's just a cop out - away fans will stand and that's not going to change .

On a similar theme , despite the decent viewing experience for the fans , the Brittania , like so many other stadiums new and old , has disgraceful facilities behind the scenes in the concourse at the beer and food bar , not to mention the awful toilets . Ewood has still by far the best facilities in the country .