[Archived] The Not A Build Up To The Ashes Thread

[nowthen]

Admittedly England probably didn't score enough runs, but the gamble was that they had 5 frontline bowlers to bowl 20 overs, rather than 3 bowlers and 2 'all rounders' like Luke Wright. 162 was very defendable in those circumstances.

I see what you mean about the gamble now but that's what england have done throughout this comp (sometimes Mascarenhas instead of Rashid neither of whom are frontline bowlers). If they really gambled they would do what you said about two/three big hitting all rounders and a decent opener (Denly/ Prior/Key take your pick).

[Flopsy]

I actually think the D-L gave England more of a chance. I always think that it favours a side defending a smaller total. 80 off of 90 was harder for that long batting order than 162 off of 20, which was a poor score for that pitch. England just have their team selection all wrong. Why are there 5 specialist bowlers in 20/20 cricket? No other side does that. You can't afford to have 6 specialist players in a side where the better batting almost always wins (if you see what I mean). On top of that Collingwood simply shouldn't be out there. I remain unconvinced of his value at international level, but particularly in the shortened forms of the game. There are plenty of good Englishman in domestic cricket suited to 20/20, England need to realise, much like the Australians, that their test squads simply aren't suited to it.

Look at his record in Tests since 2006, its rather good surprisingly.

But in Twenty20 he's not good enough, we needed big hitters at 5, 6 and 7 and although Swann and Broad can do that, they were a place to high. Morgan or Napier should have played. But still a damn good game, beaten by the slightly better team on the night, no shame in that.

Right lets get straight onto hyping the Ashes until theres no chance these colonial uppity types have any hope in winning a session, let alone a test. Blah blah blah.

[AussieinUk]

we as English cricket fans have almost suffered as much as our football team with some of the lamentable performacnes we ahve ever witnessed (as wellas some of the good one).

The other night as we got done over by the Dutch, you could hea rthe aussie whinge bags whooping after the diabolical performance against amateurs.

Tonight my Aussie friends, the boot is well and truly on the other foot.

Your OUT of the twenty 20 tournament at the first stage whilst England got safely through after despatching the Pakistani team.

Chew on that prisoners

Well now you're out...

You should have kept your mouth shut, while you were ahead...

[Napoleon]

Collingwood is an awful captain, leaving out Mascharenas who is our only middle order batsman able to clear the boundary, then batting first when rain was so likely was ridiculous. His batting is also totally unsuited to 20-20. If I were selecting for a game of 20-20 tomorrow I would go with the likes of Scott Newman who can hit the case off it, but would not get a run in ODIs or Tests, and have Pietersen bowling the overs of a fifth bowler so another batter could be selected. It's fair enough that Pakistan and India have a similar side in 20-20 to other forms, but they have big hitters even in the Test side and other than Pietersen we do not.

I think it's essential we pick Foster in all forms of the game, he is no worse a batsman than the other contenders, and what a pair of hands.

[Flopsy]

Prior is a much better batsman than Foster, much much much better.

[ABBEY]

would prior made a stumping t'other day tho?

[Tris]

Don't think we got enough runs irrespective of D-L. It's a better system than what happened before but harsh that wickets don't count when chasing a fixed target.

Colly shouldn't play this form of the game again. He's a great fielder but offers little else. KP to captain England in future.

It's easy to lay blame and find scapegoats when England just missed out on the semi finals, due to the weather.

If England had made it through - it would be all praise to sub-standard players for defeating the odds, truly British bulldog style.

The reality is somewhere in the middle, as is the problem in the England team.

[dave birch]

Tris, it is indeed easy to lay the blame.

The Australian T20 squad was crap. Not that T20 is anything better.

Anyway, the ashes are next, and I'm not confident.

Lee should not be there. He has done nothing, even before his injury.

I'm hoping Stu Clark will find his form, Johnson carries on his form (particularly if he gets his reverse swing going)

Clarke, M should forget about Lara (not Brian) and get on with his game.

Punter should bat til the cows come home and the selectors should have a look at Shane, Warne, of course, he's still got it (but I realise it won't happen).

Oh, and Haddin to have a blinder (hopefully)

[Flopsy]

would prior made a stumping t'other day tho?

probably not, but thats why he doesnt play IT20.

If we play Fred, Prior must play because Fred isnt a number 6, in fact he probably should come after Broad at the mo.

My team for Cardiff

Strauss ©

Bell

Bopara

Kp

Collingwood

Prior

Broad

Flintoff

Swann

Rashid

Anderson

Bell's in because we're playing 2 spinners and his fielding at Shortleg will be vital. Plus Cook offers nothing to the team other than good schooling

[Billy Castell]

Not sure about Bell. He is a good fielder, but he seems very nervy with the bat. Cook's form has been hit and miss, but so has Pietersen for a while now and no-one wants to drop him. No-one would dare. If Bell was to play, I would have him somewhere in the middle.

This is my team off the top of my head:

1 spinner

Strauss ©

Cook

Bopara

Pietersen

Bell/Collingwood

Prior

Broad

Swann

Onions

Anderson

Sidebottom/Freddy

If there is a chance for two spinners, I'd take out Freddy or Sidebottom and put in either Monty or Raschid. Depends on who is in form. I mentioned Sidebottom as he is fairly experienced, and I can't remembeer who has been the 4th fast bowler this summer.

[nowthen]

It's easy to lay blame and find scapegoats when England just missed out on the semi finals, due to the weather.

If England had made it through - it would be all praise to sub-standard players for defeating the odds, truly British bulldog style.

The reality is somewhere in the middle, as is the problem in the England team.

It's not a rash comment. In the last two years T20 internationals (9 matches) he's averaged less than 20 and bowled in only 4 matches (getting 3 wickets, econ rate of over 9).

England didn't make it through and didn't deserve to really (although as I have agreed earlier D-L is harsh that there's no account for wickets on a fixed shortened target). And it was down to our lack of fire power after KP and Bopara. My point is if Colly wasn't skipper then would he have played? I doubt it. The main problem was that the other established candidate was Pietersen and it was too soon for him to be captain again (he even said he wouldn't do it to distance himself from any speculation).

If they had gambled they could have gone with Key, added firepower and a respected T20 skipper, the problem was his recent form but it didn't stop other players being considered (Rashid- even he couldn't believe he had been picked as he had hardly played for the Yorkies in T20).

[nowthen]

On the ashes I agree with much of the above. Freddie must play even as a number 7/8/9 just for his bowling, he's feared by the Aussies and he builds pressure even if he's not taking wickets. I think that means Prior would have to play and bat at 6 otherwise we'd have a very dodgy lower order with Flintoff or Foster batting as a number 6 when neither looks like one at the moment. The obvious downside with Prior is he can cost wickets and bowlers confidence if he makes too many mistakes as keeper.

Extra spinner could be interesting, they seem to like Rashid and he showed potential in the T20 even though he got some tap. Monty doesn't offer anything as a batsmen or fielder which has set him back because he hasn't been potent enough with the ball alone to secure him the place even as the second spinner- times change.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Bell's in because we're playing 2 spinners and his fielding at Shortleg will be vital. Plus Cook offers nothing to the team other than good schooling

What apart from avereging mid 40's at the age of 23/4. That's pretty darn impressive imo.

[neekoy]

In the last two years T20 internationals (9 matches) he's averaged less than 20 and bowled in only 4 matches (getting 3 wickets, econ rate of over 9).

Doesn't that make him T20's version of Don Bradman

[Flopsy]

What apart from avereging mid 40's at the age of 23/4. That's pretty darn impressive imo.

So does Bell. And Bell is the far superior fielder.

[Flopsy]

Monty doesn't offer anything as a batsmen or fielder which has set him back because he hasn't been potent enough with the ball alone to secure him the place even as the second spinner- times change.

Monty's not been taking wickets in County Cricket either. Rashid averaged 7 an over, which is excellent, but also the topspinner he sent down after getting smacked for 6 was excellent thinking.

[broadsword]

Why was Collingwood even in the T20 team, let alone captain.

You can't nudge and nurdle in T20, shambles.

[T4E]

Flops - You think Bell should be an opener in an Ashes series?

[Flopsy]

he'll last longer and score more than Alaistair 'wafts outside off and caught at slip' Cook and will field at Short Leg.

[Billy Castell]

He'll waft his bat to slip whilst looking like he's pooing himself even more though. He is far too nervy to open. And when he does get a bit of momentum, he often then throws his wicket and durability for test cricket.

[modes98]

Bell is a player who will score runs and proven against the Aussies. Cook is a hit and miss player, he gets nothing or a hundred.

I almost spat out my drink earlier when someone on TV said that Cook was a "world class batsman".

[nowthen]

They both have flaws but there's no way Cook will be dropped for the first test. He's in possession and scored a couple of hundreds in the last few tests. Besides surely they would never pick Bell to open, suspect temperament that would be exploited by the Aussies.

[Flopsy]

compared to cook who was Stuart Clark's bitch last series?

If we are to win the ashes, we need to play two spinners and we need to take all chances, especially those at fine leg. Cook is patently not good enough to go there and Bell is an expert there.

Also, he'll get 30 and then get out.

Where as cook will get 15 and then get out and wont offer anything else

[nowthen]

But he still managed a hundred, something Bell has never done in 3 series against Australia. England need hundreds from their top 6. I take your point about the chances at short leg but could someone else do it? Bopara? Also we'll only play 2 spinners if the pitch warrants it.

[dave birch]

I can only hope that Johnson is on song, then .......